Barter income

Practical and Practice issues for Professionals who practice in the area of taxation. Moral, social and economic issues relating to taxes, including international issues, the U.S. Internal Revenue Code, state tax issues, etc. Not for "tax protestor" issues, which should be posted in the "tax protestor" forum above. The advice or opinion given herein should not be relied on for any purpose whatsoever. Also examines cookie-cutter deals that have no economic substance but exist only to generate losses, as marketed by everybody from solo practitioner tax lawyers to the major accounting firms.
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Pottapaug1938
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Re: Barter income

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Thu May 27, 2010 11:53 am

The Operative wrote:To those who might be new to Quatloos, everything that Harvester posts is almost guaranteed to be wrong, a conspiracy theory or both.


... and often flat-out idiotic, as well.
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Cpt Banjo
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Re: Barter income

Postby Cpt Banjo » Thu May 27, 2010 4:03 pm

Harvester wrote:It's a limiting list; but may be considered expansive in that the definition also encompasses other things within the same class as the term defined. Therefore "trade or business" also encompasses activities/things in the same class as "performance of the functions of a public office."


Harv has demonstrated that he is incapable of distinguishing between "the term defined" (i.e., trade or business) and the expanded definition of the term defined (i.e., performance of the functions of a public office).

Are you all ignorant of the rules of statutory construction/deception?


No, Harv, you are. Section 7701(c) makes it clear that "includes" isn't to be construed so as to exclude other things normally within the meaning of "trade or business".

THE INCOME TAX IS AN EXCISE ON PRIVILEGED ACTIVITY/STUFF.


Absolute nonsense. What privilege is involved in embezzlement, extortion, and other illegal activities, the income from which has been held by the Supreme Court to be taxable? Can you explain that one, Harv? And don't bother trying to get any guidance from Lost Horizons -- Pete and his bozo followers refuse to deal with it.
"Run get the pitcher, get the baby some beer." Rev. Gary Davis

Harvester

Re: Barter income

Postby Harvester » Fri May 28, 2010 3:27 am

Ha! Believe me, we tax-free patriots are laughing harder at you Quatlosers.
And thanks for your efforts to bring down the dollar, and the bankster's house of fiat. Wait for it . . . . just a bit longer yet. Really, you don't wanna be stuck with the Old Maid when it crashes!

Y'all enjoy your ignorant enslaved weekend!

http://www.losthorizons.com/MidEditionUpdate.htm

Nikki

Re: Barter income

Postby Nikki » Fri May 28, 2010 4:04 am

Thanks for the best wishes, Harvester.

In fact, I do plan to enjoy my slavery this weekend.

I'll be reveling in the fact that I'm forced to own a home which (despite the current housing crunch) has more than doubled in value since I bought it nine years ago. That means when I retire in about two years I'll be able to sell it and walk away with around $400,000 -- legally tax free.

Of course, I won't get to keep all of it. Some of it will have to go towards paying off the balance of my other home in a really up-scale retirement community.

At that point, I'll be forced to live in the slavery of a fully paid off home and a combined retirement income well up in the six figures.

Yes, Harvester, you're right. It really sucks to be a slave to the system. I really wish I were like you and Pete's other LoserHeads.

Then I, too, could wait in anticipation by my mailbox for the next $5,000 penalty notice to arrive. I, too, could sit around wondering why my patriot, free man guru, most learned of all tax law scholars of all time is going to be spending the next few years in prison and if I, too, am going to get a visit from CID.

Harvester -- piss off.

Harvester

Re: Barter income

Postby Harvester » Fri May 28, 2010 10:16 pm

Oh you're welcome. Yes, our home has about doubled in value too. But do you really own it? Some have said* that on "March 9, 1933, ownership (legal title) of all property is in the State; individual 'ownership' is only equitable (user) title. Use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State."
No, I have no $5000 penalties to look forward to. Perhaps you've forgotten I'm a lawful non-taxpayer. In fact I have thousands more per year now - I keep all my money - since I don't pay tax to the banksters any more.

There's hope for you Nikki, recognition of your slave status is the first step. Stand tall warriors, central banking has reached it's "use by" date and we are bringing it down, one patriot at a time. We're winning!

* http://www.spiritualeconomicsnow.net/so ... w_I_08.pdf

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Re: Barter income

Postby Famspear » Fri May 28, 2010 10:51 pm

Harvester wrote:....Stand tall warriors, central banking has reached it's "use by" date and we are bringing it down, one patriot at a time. We're winning!


Hey, you be smokin' some good stuff! Don't bogart that joint, bro'! Pass it over to me!
...why is anyone in this [losthorizons] community paying the least attention to...'Larry Williams' [Famspear], or other purveyors of disinformation from...quatloos? – Pete Hendrickson, former inmate 15406-039, Fed’l Bureau of Prisons

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The Operative
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Re: Barter income

Postby The Operative » Fri May 28, 2010 11:06 pm

Harvester wrote:<SNIP EVEN MORE INANE RAMBLINGS>

* http://www.spiritualeconomicsnow.net/so ... w_I_08.pdf


You are using Mary Croft as a source now? Do any of your sources have an IQ above room temperature?
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.

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Pottapaug1938
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Re: Barter income

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Sat May 29, 2010 12:07 am

Harvester wrote:Oh you're welcome. Yes, our home has about doubled in value too. But do you really own it? Some have said* that on "March 9, 1933, ownership (legal title) of all property is in the State; individual 'ownership' is only equitable (user) title. Use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State."
* http://www.spiritualeconomicsnow.net/so ... w_I_08.pdf


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Some have said? SOME HAVE SAID?????" You're killing us, Harv. We're rolling on the floor, helpless with laughter... at YOU. You have to be some sort of Hall-of-Fame stupid to believe stuff like that. I could try to rebut your idiocies with facts; but to borrow the theme of a quote often used here on Quatloos, to do so would imply that your assertions have some sort of colorable merit.

"Some have said" that the world is flat, the world is hollow, or that the sun revolves around the earth. They will cite cartloads of... um, "evidence" to back up their claims. Their evidence is every bit as (non-) credible as yours.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools

Harvester

Re: Barter income

Postby Harvester » Sat May 29, 2010 5:16 am

Oh, you're more than welcome - happy to entertain. Hopefully I'm not your only source of entertainment on a Friday night. You know, I was perusing the National Security Study Memo (NSSM 200) - April 1974 (aka The Kissinger Report)

* (b) actions to keep the ultimate level as close as possible to 8 billions rather than permitting it to reach 10 billions, 13 billions, or more.

29. While specific goals in this area are difficult to state, our aim should be for the world to achieve a replacement level of fertility, (a two-child family on the average), by about the year 2000 [emphasis added]. This will require the present 2 percent growth rate to decline to 1.7 percent within a decade and to 1.1 percent by 2000. Compared to the U.N medium projection, this goal would result in 500 million fewer people in 2000 and about 3 billion fewer in 2050.

II. B. Functional Assistance Programs to Create Conditions for Fertility Decline

Yikes, the global elites' plan to reduce 'useless eaters.' In honor of this, I think perhaps Mrs. Harvester and I will have another child. Ah the thought of another future nontaxpayer scampering across the floor warms the heart doesn't it. G'nite :D

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Pottapaug1938
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Re: Barter income

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Sat May 29, 2010 12:43 pm

[quote="Harvester"]Oh, you're more than welcome - happy to entertain. Hopefully I'm not your only source of entertainment on a Friday night. You know, I was perusing the National Security Study Memo (NSSM 200) - April 1974 (aka The Kissinger Report)

And, once again, you're offering as "proof" some sort of mysterious document which has no demonstrable basis in law. Your cited memo has as much probative value, in terms of your assertions, as an appellate brief -- if that much.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools

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Re: Barter income

Postby Cpt Banjo » Sat May 29, 2010 3:38 pm

Cpt Banjo wrote:
Harvester wrote:THE INCOME TAX IS AN EXCISE ON PRIVILEGED ACTIVITY/STUFF.


Absolute nonsense. What privilege is involved in embezzlement, extortion, and other illegal activities, the income from which has been held by the Supreme Court to be taxable? Can you explain that one, Harv? And don't bother trying to get any guidance from Lost Horizons -- Pete and his bozo followers refuse to deal with it.


S'matter, Harv? Can't you answer this simple question? How is the taxation of illegally-obtained income consistent with your premise that the income tax reaches only privileged activity?
"Run get the pitcher, get the baby some beer." Rev. Gary Davis

Harvester

Re: Barter income

Postby Harvester » Sat May 29, 2010 3:48 pm

Banjo, because that embezzlement, extortion activity must first generate INCOME under the Revenue Acts to be taxable. My bank account is full of money but it ain't INCOME dude. And of course, I bank at Sovereign Bank. :D

"Mysterious document" eh? The 200-page Kissinger Report, while originally CONFIDENTIAL has been out for years. And no, I'm not trying to prove anything. It's a just a policy memo, shows the global elite have a [wonderful] plan for your life, and Kissinger is definitely on the top of that food chain.

I read a lot of diverse documents/views and I'm not afraid to link or share them. Yes I know Mary Croft's book isn't mainstream and lacks a scholarly bibliography; I take it as anecdotal evidence - evidence of something real that has worked for her. The ability to gather lots of conflicting info and then distil and separate the wheat from the BS (cough*LPC*) is a useful skill.

And in the interest of sharing, I will say this - something big is coming. Smart folks are getting out of 'dollar' denominated assets ASAP. Here's Jim Willie (aka GoldenJackass), and I believe he's from your neck of the woods Pottapaug.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1274940780.php
INTERPOL & THE LIST
... The subpoena power is not to be dismissed. It enables Interpol agents and cops to obtain documents, to force testimony, and to investigate with some teeth. My source tells of how the Interpol has been ON THE GROUND IN THE UNITED STATES FOR MONTHS doing their work, building a case against corrupt bankers. The same source told of how last August 2009, at least thirty former USDept Treasury officials and Wall Street executives together appealed to Interpol, turned state's evidence, and were granted asylum. They arrived with much damaging evidence in the form of documents, emails, CDs, trading logs, and personal testimony. The information gained has been used for several months in criminal investigations of very high order. Much progress has come, but it is not shared publicly. Finally, lists are being compiled for Arrest Warrants of US & UK & West Europe bankers and politicians complicit with banking center corruption. The story mentioned London bankers working for Goldman Sachs as having their passports lifted. More to come on this showdown. It begs the question who delivers the warrants and what happens if an F.U. is given in reply, especially if armed bodyguards are present. The list reportedly reads like a Who's Who, not yet seen by Jackass eyes though. A climax is coming, but unclear when.

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Re: Barter income

Postby Cathulhu » Sat May 29, 2010 3:53 pm

Harvester ranted--

And in the interest of sharing, I will say this - something big is coming. Smart folks are getting out of 'dollar' denominated assets ASAP. Here's Jim Willie (aka GoldenJackass), and I believe he's from your neck of the woods Pottapaug.

Is this anything like when you announced the revolution in March? C'mon Harv, even a broken clock is right every twelve hours, and you haven't yet reached the level of a broken timepiece. You'll be correct when the Nesara packies arrive!

I have some magic beans you'd be interested in--but I insist on dollars for payment.
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Re: Barter income

Postby Arthur Rubin » Sat May 29, 2010 3:57 pm

Cathulhu wrote:Harvester ranted--
...
I have some magic beans you'd be interested in--but I insist on dollars for payment.
FRNs only, please. None of those Libbies. :P
Arthur Rubin, unemployed tax preparer and aerospace engineer
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Re: Barter income

Postby Cpt Banjo » Sat May 29, 2010 4:09 pm

Harvester wrote:Banjo, because that embezzlement, extortion activity must first generate INCOME under the Revenue Acts to be taxable.


That didn't answer the question, sport. In all these cases, the money received as a result of the illegal activities was held to be income.

Take Mr. James, who embezzled money from his employer. The Supreme Court held the money was gross income. What privileged activity was James involved in? James v. U.S., 366 U.S. 213 (1961).

How about Mr. Rutkin, who received money through extortion. It was held to be gross income, too. Did Mr. Rutkin have a license to blackmail? Rutkin v. U.S., 343 U.S. 130 (1952).

Then there's Mr. Sullivan, who got his taxable income through bootlegging during Prohibition. How are acts that are prohibited "privileged activity"? U.S. v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259 (1927).
"Run get the pitcher, get the baby some beer." Rev. Gary Davis

Harvester

Re: Barter income

Postby Harvester » Sat May 29, 2010 6:17 pm

No no, no FRN's please. You'll want to insist on real money, pre-1965 coins, something of substance, anything but FRN's. That scheme is coming down hard, beware.

Cpt lemme tell ya 'bout a man named Jed
poor mountaineer barely kept his family fed

then one day he's a surfing on the 'net
said ho! now boy they's a mess I ain't learned yet

Seems the bankers weren't content wit whot they had
stealing from the few weren't enuf to prove 'em bad

Federal Reserve is what they call their grander scheme
now it runs on autopilot, humming just like a machine

Treasury sells the bonds & FED prints the money
and we all pay the tab! now that sure smells funny

See, now I know its just a scam
to create a taxpayer from Jed a living man!

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Re: Barter income

Postby Cpt Banjo » Sat May 29, 2010 8:31 pm

Just as I figured, Harv. You're an intellectual coward who has no answer to a line of cases that demonstrates how utterly bogus your guru's inane "federal privilege" argument is.

And if you're suggesting that the "privilege" has something to do with FRN's, you should know that the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the income tax decades before the Fed was ever created.
"Run get the pitcher, get the baby some beer." Rev. Gary Davis

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Cathulhu
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Re: Barter income

Postby Cathulhu » Sun May 30, 2010 2:46 pm

Harv, you total liar, go buy your wife some teeth. Or does the dentist insist on being paid with real money?

It isn't worth making a valid point, as so many of the intelligent people here have been kind enough to do for you, since you'll ignore anything that doesn't support your foregone conclusions.
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold

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Pottapaug1938
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Re: Barter income

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Sun May 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Harvester wrote: Smart folks are getting out of 'dollar' denominated assets ASAP. Here's Jim Willie (aka GoldenJackass), and I believe he's from your neck of the woods Pottapaug.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1274940780.php
INTERPOL & THE LIST
... The subpoena power is not to be dismissed. It enables Interpol agents and cops to obtain documents, to force testimony, and to investigate with some teeth. My source tells of how the Interpol has been ON THE GROUND IN THE UNITED STATES FOR MONTHS doing their work, building a case against corrupt bankers. The same source told of how last August 2009, at least thirty former USDept Treasury officials and Wall Street executives together appealed to Interpol, turned state's evidence, and were granted asylum. They arrived with much damaging evidence in the form of documents, emails, CDs, trading logs, and personal testimony. The information gained has been used for several months in criminal investigations of very high order. Much progress has come, but it is not shared publicly. Finally, lists are being compiled for Arrest Warrants of US & UK & West Europe bankers and politicians complicit with banking center corruption. The story mentioned London bankers working for Goldman Sachs as having their passports lifted. More to come on this showdown. It begs the question who delivers the warrants and what happens if an F.U. is given in reply, especially if armed bodyguards are present. The list reportedly reads like a Who's Who, not yet seen by Jackass eyes though. A climax is coming, but unclear when.


Yeah, we have our share of idiots up here as well.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools

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Re: Barter income

Postby Imalawman » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:11 pm

not to bring the thread back to the topic at hand....but barter systems are hard in the US, only because the IRC doesn't tax a transaction based upon the exchanged FMV. Rather it taxes the value received less the basis in the item given up. If you exchange something which has FMV equal to its tax basis, then it is not a taxable transaction.

Barter systems then are fraught with peril for the unwary. Doling out services or other zero to low basis property in return for value of any kind leads to taxable gain. However, if all you receive is property then the tax bill at the end of the year will be hard to pay in cash.

My assumption is that Australia would work in much the same manner. I know that in the EU, it would work the same way.
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