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Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:04 pm
by AFTP
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/23/20663004-controversial-irs-official-retires?lite

People are saying she retired because she wanted her pension.
If convicted she'd lose it.

I do hope if she did anything illegal she loses big time.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:36 pm
by AndyK
AFTP wrote:People are saying she retired because she wanted her pension.
If convicted she'd lose it.

I do hope if she did anything illegal she loses big time.


Convicted of what? Even if she violated one of the "deadly sins" for IRS employees and was terminated, or even jailed, she'd keep all the pension benefits she had earned. She'd even be able to collect her pension payments while in prison. In any case, there hasn't been the first word about charging anyone asociated with this issue with any crime.

AFTP: Get over it. You don't have all the facts related to this issue -- just what you get through the media spin. It will take a year or two for all the dust to settle and any charges to be placed.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:46 pm
by JamesVincent
Only thing known for certain is that people reported issues and she pleaded the fifth. Until something goes beyond that not much else to look at here.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:35 am
by The Observer
Rep. Sander Levin is stating that the IRS' internal investigation concluded that Lerner was "neglectful in her duties" and recommended that she be fired. At this point it is a simple conclusion that Lerner decided to retire rather than be fired and carry around additional stigma, especially if she decided to look for work in the private sector.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see her resurface in the future with one of the big accounting firms.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:31 pm
by operabuff
Now it seems that the IRS is unable to retrieve any emails that Lerner may have sent to individuals outside of the IRS prior to 2011. This may add gasoline to the fire that seemed mostly out, because the Service apparently can't show that she had no contact with administration officials outside of the IRS. It's difficult to prove a negative in any event, but the IRS just doesn't seem to be able to put a foot right on this issue.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ml?hpid=z5

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:19 pm
by JamesVincent
They can't retrieve them from the actual mail server?

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:42 pm
by AFTP
Now it seems that the IRS is unable to retrieve any emails that Lerner may have sent to individuals outside of the IRS prior to 2011.


Sounds like a blatant cover up.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:28 pm
by notorial dissent
Let's just say it sounds reminiscent of a CTC educated return.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:21 pm
by AndyK
AFTP wrote:
Now it seems that the IRS is unable to retrieve any emails that Lerner may have sent to individuals outside of the IRS prior to 2011.


Sounds like a blatant cover up.


Sounds a lot more like expired retention dates for backup tapes and / or one or more common errors by the tape handlers.

Then again, AFTP has never found a stone without a conspiracy under it.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:39 pm
by The Observer
AndyK wrote:Sounds a lot more like expired retention dates for backup tapes and / or one or more common errors by the tape handlers.

Then again, AFTP has never found a stone without a conspiracy under it.


No, it sounds more like that the problem that IRS Counsel has been warning the various operating divisions about for years, in that IRS employees need to do a better job in backing up and preserving their electronic records, in particular e-mails. There are too many laptop users out there that think that their hard drive is immune to failure until the day that it does fail. Then they expect IT to pull a miracle out of nowhere in resurrecting the data on the drive.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:46 pm
by Lambkin
I imagine corruption occurs at the IRS from time to time, but I'll bet on blundering incompetence and hide-bound bureaucratic inertia any day.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:57 pm
by AFTP
AndyK wrote:
AFTP wrote:
Now it seems that the IRS is unable to retrieve any emails that Lerner may have sent to individuals outside of the IRS prior to 2011.


Sounds like a blatant cover up.


Sounds a lot more like expired retention dates for backup tapes and / or one or more common errors by the tape handlers.

Then again, AFTP has never found a stone without a conspiracy under it.


That is simply not fair.
The average person is getting very sick and tired of the lies and convenient "losing" of things in this Govt. when it comes to so called transparency and telling the truth.
The people deserve better. We are fed up and being fed up with this dysfunctional Govt. doesn't make someone looking for "a conspiracy under it."! :naughty:

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:29 pm
by webhick
The Observer wrote:There are too many laptop users out there that think that their hard drive is immune to failure until the day that it does fail. Then they expect IT to pull a miracle out of nowhere in resurrecting the data on the drive.


It's almost like you're writing my biography. And before you get to the bit where I pull a miracle out of my ass please remember that I've temporarily resurrected more hard drives by putting them in the freezer for several hours than I have by trying to pass them through my colon.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:34 am
by notorial dissent
So we have to add Re-Animatrix to your list of job titles or is that actually rankings???

Clever idea by the way.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:59 am
by operabuff
Here's a fuller explanation from the IRS of what happened to the emails:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... r/?hpid=z5

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:36 pm
by AndyK
Note to AFTP:

Are the facts of the issue merely another part of the conspiracy and cover-up or are they a reasonable, rational explanation for what happened.

As a sort of aside: In response to Tax Notes Today winning several FOIA / disclosure lawsuits against the IRS, the Office of Chief Counsel [which -- at least until the end of 2011 -- maintained a separate computer network and e-mail system from the rest of the IRS] instituted a computer-supported program of e-mail retention.

In this system, ANY e-mail message originating in Chief Counsel which constituted legal advice, policy statements, presonnel actions, and several other categories was automatically copied to a separate mail server, categorized and indexed. These servers are multiply redundant and have backup tapes maintained indefinitely.

The remainder of the IRS (as of 11/30/2011) had yet to implement any such system BUT they did institute a program of indefinite e-mail server back-up retention.

Just as a comparison, how many private sector companies -- where e-mail messages habe been determined to be legal records; documentation of SEC violations; evidence in price-fixing schemes; proof of age discrimination; etc -- are held to the same standards as AFTP woould apply to the government?

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:37 pm
by operabuff
The IRS has a National Archives approved record retention policy (see IRM 1.15.1 et seq.). Records are categorized and a specific retention period is set for each category. Records judged to have lasting historical importance, e.g. regulation files, are designated as permanent. Such historical records are supposed to be shipped off to the Archives so that they can be properly preserved.

The government's record maintenance system originated in a world of paper records and is gradually being amended to take into account the increasing prevalence of electronic records. So, for example, because national office case files mostly exist in paper form, related emails are supposed to be printed off and incorporated in the paper file. Twenty years from now, probably all of the files will be electronically stored, but the conversion process is slow, particularly in a time of reduced budgets. As they say, it's hard to focus on draining the swamp when you're up to your "elbows" in alligators. Record maintenance definitely falls into the draining the swamp category and almost always takes second place to dealing with the crisis du jour.

That makes life much more complicated when the crisis du jour involves the production of records in response to discovery, FOIA, or congressional inquiries.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:50 pm
by AFTP
Are the facts of the issue merely another part of the conspiracy and cover-up or are they a reasonable, rational explanation for what happened.


Frankly, I don't know.

What I do know is the perception of what is happening.
With all the blatant lying by the Govt. to the people you can't help but feeling something is very wrong here.

Maybe you have a job where you see things in a clearer light.
But as I said, to the average Joe it seems very fishy.
No conspiracy, just observation.

I think it would behoove you to place yourself in the average Americans shoes and see though their eyes for a while.
Maybe then you'll understand their disillusionment.

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:52 pm
by Cathulhu
Lambkin wrote:I imagine corruption occurs at the IRS from time to time, but I'll bet on blundering incompetence and hide-bound bureaucratic inertia any day.


Frankly, I think Lambkin nailed it. The folks in my office would always make me call the IT guy, because I could get along with him and they were utterly at sea. Didn't speak same language--he spoke fluent techie, and they didn't understand him. And I could see his life, dealing with non-listening idiots who expect miracles.

Makes me respect Webhick all the more. Hail, Webhick!

Re: Controversial IRS official retires

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:41 pm
by Famspear
AFTP wrote:...I think it would behoove you to place yourself in the average Americans shoes and see though their eyes for a while.
Maybe then you'll understand their disillusionment.


Gee, who exactly are these "average Americans", and how do we find one of them? I'd sure like to meet one.

Come on.

I'm the grandson of a south Louisiana rice farmer. My grandparents had little in the way of worldly possessions. My other grandfather was a Methodist minister, but they didn't have much, either. My mother died when I was a kid. After she died, my dad never re-married, and he struggled to raise four children, and did a good job. As kids, we didn't have a lot of the toys that other kids had. At one point, we went to church on Sunday wearing "flip flops" for shoes. I grew up in the Deep South and I didn't live in an air conditioned home until I was grown and moved away from home.

In my life, I have received only one government hand-out that comes to mind: The interest that the government paid on my student loans while I was in college and law school.

The fact that I worked for what I have accomplished does not make me not be an average American. Indeed, working for what you have is very typically "average American."

I'm just curious, AFTP. Which posters here in the Quatloos forum do you consider to be "not average Americans" who would need to "place themselves" in the "shoes" of people who are average Americans?

Edit: And, AFTP, since your comment was directed to AndyK, why do you think it necessary or appropriate to lecture AndyK on "placing" himself in the "shoes" of "average Americans"? Is there some reason that AndyK cannot relate to the plight of "average Americans"?