Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Discussion of various forms of Advance Fee Fraud, including application fees for loans that never materialize, self-liquidating loan scams, as well as mortgage elimination scams and related debt elimination scams [Nigerian-type scams should go in the Nigerian 4-1-9 forum]
davids
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Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby davids » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:21 pm

Recently, in another thread, it was discussed that a certain individual was offering "mortgage eradication" services. Since then, either to his credit for growing some common sense, or because of that thread, that particular person has taken the references to same off of his website. However, a quick googling shows that the verbiage of "mortgage eradication" has been used in what seem to be questionable loan elimination programs fairly often.

One preliminary observation about how to spot a scam or a scammer - it seems that an unusual portion of the sales pitch of scammers revolves around discussing their faith, belief system, their love for humanity/family/whatever, or sometimes, their hate for banks/moneyed elite/those in power. All of these are perhaps appropriate secondary concerns for anyone who is dealing with the emotions of a foreclosure, but these are far too highly emphasized by scammers. So, you believe in "yahweh", you love your family, and you hate banksters - I get it - but why should anyone buy a strange, unproven service or product from you, because of that?

Perhaps the biggest distraction selling point used by these types is to demean lawyers. This resonates because, at least in my neck of the woods, the laws aren't very favorable to the average homeowner facing foreclosure. In nonjudicial states/proceedings like CA and many others, one doesn't have to "show the note" for example. Many of the marks of these types have gone to lawyers and been told that their case doesn't have merit, or that there are no strong legal arguments that could be made. Or worse, perhaps they have been taken by a lawyer or a quasi-law firm selling loan mods, and lost valuable assets - either money or sometimes the home outright - because of same.

If someone could bottle false hope, I dare say that nonjudicial foreclosure parties would be their primary target market. They can always say, "my false hope works, and it costs less than an attorney." Homeowner buys the latest form of false hope, thus contributing to their death of a thousand scams. Indeed, I see homeowners who have been taken by 2 or 3 or 4 different kinds of scammers, wasted years of their lives and thousands of dollars, and often have blown any opportunity to present what case they may have had due to statute of limitations concerns. I am going to post more about this kind of thing as it still is going strong, as I come across it, in the next year.

None of the sites that I found which discuss this concept have any description of their process. But, I infer it goes something like this: Get "forensic loan audit" (or whatever they are calling it these days). When it finds "fraud" or irregularities, then it gets fuzzy. Do they file suit to reform the mortgage? An action for rescission? I doubt it - to do that, you have to tender the monies borrowed.

I think what they must be proposing is to just stop paying the mortgage based on some document that hasn't been determined to be accurate or authentic, without any legal process at all. Perhaps there are a few questionable filings at the county recorder's office to go along with it. Who knows. But I do know this, only a sucker would buy that the mortgage is eradicated and then pay the sellers of this kind of scheme, and then cross their fingers to see what the lender actually does with it.

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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:55 am

The reality of life is that so many of the predatory servicers have been wiped out or rolled up into acquiring companies that there just aren't as many cases of fraudulent foreclosure going on.

That's not to say they aren't out there - Google "Ocwen" in business news and see what has become of one of the last of the great white servicing sharks. Unfortunately, instead of any criminal prosecutions, the Ocwen case is eerily like the Fairbanks case - the founder/head honcho (in this case a billionaire instead of multi-millionaire) gets dumped and banned from the industry and regulators allegedly step in to manage the worst of the worst kinds of actions but the company is left to continue operating.

The other thing to realize is that predatory lending doesn't work well any more - the garbage disposal (predatory servicing) that is so necessary to keep the business going has been restricted (with a couple of exceptions, including Ocwen).

A mortgage elimination scheme against a responsible lender/servicer isn't going to get any traction.
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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby noblepa » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:26 am

Bovine, Flatulating: wrote:One preliminary observation about how to spot a scam or a scammer - it seems that an unusual portion of the sales pitch of scammers revolves around discussing their faith, belief system, their love for humanity/family/whatever, or sometimes, their hate for banks/moneyed elite/those in power. All of these are perhaps appropriate secondary concerns for anyone who is dealing with the emotions of a foreclosure, but these are far too highly emphasized by scammers. So, you believe in "yahweh", you love your family, and you hate banksters - I get it - but why should anyone buy a strange, unproven service or product from you, because of that?


This is the classic "affinity scam", in which the scammer appeals to a certain ethnic or religious group. He tries to make his victims feel that he is "one of them" and therefore is trustworthy. "Why, he's a born-again Christian, just like me. He wouldn't cheat me".

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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby davids » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:25 am

noblepa wrote:
This is the classic "affinity scam", in which the scammer appeals to a certain ethnic or religious group. He tries to make his victims feel that he is "one of them" and therefore is trustworthy. "Why, he's a born-again Christian, just like me. He wouldn't cheat me".


It does have elements of the classic affinity scam. But I view a classic affinity scam as something that most persons would shy away from automatically due to the "too good to be true" factor, and the only thing persuading them to go through with it is that the person is from their church.

There are certainly elements of that in the mortgage scammers world. But they also borrow from sovereign citizen legal myth, from the bowels of the unauthorized practice of law world, and from general financial scams.

The marketing for mortgage scams is often slicker. There are scams that have or had websites that look every bit as legit as those of a mortgage company. There are scammer lawyers whose ads - for months at a time - are unavoidable on local radio or even tv. There are scammers who have nice offices and surroundings (as there are lots of persons in foreclosure who somehow come up with funds to pay them).

A lot of the mortgage scammers in the west come from the real estate field - where they had a big implosion of income along with the value of their properties - and these people are and were very slick. Some have a lot of money socked away that can be tapped to make their scam look legit. Some have lawyers fronting them who even have, in one case I know of, a history of decades of good performance in some other area of law.

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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby Normal Wisdom » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:39 pm

I have received a response to a comment I made about a YouTube video posted by one of our favourite UK FoTLers, Hannah Rose Shotbolt (viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10105) in which she explained how she had paid off her outstanding taxes and fines using a promissory note (of course, she hadn't).

The reply I received was from someone called David Young ..."Our LPN, Promissory Note has the Bank's acceptance and received on them and copies of them are located in our e-booklet online at www.Cancel1Mortgage.com. Has any of Hanna's notes been accepted by the bank as ours have?"
http://www.cancel1mortgage.info

I cannot find any previous mention of him or the "Little Promissory Note" on Quatloos. Anybody know anything?
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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby notorial dissent » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:39 pm

NW, don't remember this one being mentioned before, looks like you found a new curiosity for the collection.
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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby wserra » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:40 am

David Young is a basic "United States Corporation" mortgage elimination scammer. Not even an original or literate one. Watch this video, if you can take it. "Department of Debt Loan Payoff"?

Oh, and don't miss his explanation of the history of banking. Picture Gomer Pyle explaining calculus. Does it seem to anyone else that he uses a photo of himself from maybe 30 years ago?
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Re: Mortgage "Eradication" Scams

Postby fortinbras » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:34 pm

David Young's con is not very original. In fact, the most interesting thing is that his presentation on video is so slapdash - lousy microphone, impromptu clothing and background, and what seems to be a very nervous voice.

First, he thinks that a mortgage (or other major debt) can be paid with a promissory note. No matter what you call it (and some of these con-artists use "Certified" or "Registered" or "Bonded Promissory Note" or even a combination of adjectives; Young uses "International Promissory Note" on the basis of a multinational agreement to facilitate international business transactions - but Young's funny money doesn't come within the terms of the agreement), a promissory note is not a payment of anything, it is an acknowledgement of a debt and it promises future payments. It is an IOU. The mortgage company or bank probably had the customer sign a promissory note that it had written up when it lent him the mortgage loan.

When the debt is due, the creditor is not pleased to receive, instead of money, a promissory note that would merely drag the debt out for a much longer period (and under terms, regarding interest and default, that the creditor will not accept). The simple fact is that Young can offer his "International Promissory Note" but the bank can reject it and demand prompt payment in real money.

Second, Young trots out all the crazy talk about HJR 192 (a 1933 bit of legislation that took the US off the gold standard, and specified that any debts that had been contracted to be paid in gold coin would henceforth be paid in the same face value of other US currency including Federal Reserve Notes -- so it didn't do anything to make debts melt away - and virtually nothing of the original HJR 192 is still current law). He talks about legislation, international agreements, and so forth - but none of them relate to his scheme and some don't even exist.

Third, he also talks nonsense about the US govt. He misrepresents 1872 legislation by which the city of Washington, DC, was made a municipal corporation - this did not change the nature of the federal govt at all. The US govt is not a corporation with limited liabilities, it is a sovereign with sovereign immunity.

Fourth, he uses the old "vapor money" argument. The home loan was accomplished by the lender enlarging the borrower's bank account so he could write a check for his purchase - but because the lender didn't put the actual currency (especially in gold and silver coin) into the borrower's hands, somehow the borrow wasn't really lent money, even though the transaction that moved money into his bank account enabled his purchase of his home.

Listening to Young's nonsense can only cause more trouble to the debtor; trotting out any of Young's ploys will only persuade the creditor that the debtor has no intent of making real payments, at which point things tend to get ugly.


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