The Dorean criminal trial has begun...

Discussion of various forms of Advance Fee Fraud, including application fees for loans that never materialize, self-liquidating loan scams, as well as mortgage elimination scams and related debt elimination scams [Nigerian-type scams should go in the Nigerian 4-1-9 forum]
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Demosthenes
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The Dorean criminal trial has begun...

Postby Demosthenes » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:30 pm

My favorite voir dire question:

Do you believe that aliens or UFOs have visited earth?
Demo.

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Dr. Caligari
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Postby Dr. Caligari » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:39 pm

Asked by the defense, I assume?

How many defendants are left, by the way? Are they all pro se?
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Demosthenes
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Postby Demosthenes » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:33 am

The judge asked all of the voir dire questions so I don't who whose idea it was.

Two defendants (Heineman and Johnson), both pro se.

One juror had to be dismissed because he couldn't resolve that one side had lawyers with expertise while the other side didn't. The judge patiently explained that defendants have a constitutional right to defend themselves but the juror kept trying to point out that the lopsided expertise just wasn't fair.

Another juror had serious issues with the US government because they wouldn't let his son immigrate from Mexico just because of his drug use history.

Bottom line, the jury is an interesting San Francisco mix.

Four asian males
One asian female
Four white females
Three while males

All between the ages of 30 to 55 (my estimate.) Of the 103 people in the jury pool, less than a handful were black, which doesn't really match the demographic for the nothern cal district. 35 people were picked in the first round, roughly six came from accounting backgrounds, and at least four worked for Wells Fargo and other banks.

The Dim Duo wore drag khaki prison garb, white socks, and blue canvas shoes. My nicknames for them in my notes are "ponytail" and "the lump".

Flecompte takes the stand tomorrow, and when the prosecutor listed the names of all of the government's witnesses for possible juror conflicts, you'll never guess whose name was on that list...
Demo.

Nikki

Postby Nikki » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:37 am

JJ MacNabb :?:

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Postby Dezcad » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:54 pm

Demosthenes wrote:The Dim Duo wore drag khaki prison garb, white socks, and blue canvas shoes. My nicknames for them in my notes are "ponytail" and "the lump".


I'd die to see a picture of those two. I think you meant "drab" but I do find the humor in the original word.

Demosthenes wrote: Flecompte takes the stand tomorrow, and when the prosecutor listed the names of all of the government's witnesses for possible juror conflicts, you'll never guess whose name was on that list...


Two off-the-wall guesses:

-David Merrill

-Demo's SO

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Postby jg » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:27 pm

Demosthenes wrote:Flecompte takes the stand tomorrow, and when the prosecutor listed the names of all of the government's witnesses for possible juror conflicts, you'll never guess whose name was on that list...
Could it be........







"expert witness Dr. Walker Todd" ?

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Postby Prof » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:53 pm

The plot thickens; the fog gathers; mutters are heard in dark corners???????????

Thanks, Demo. (We're moving, from a large house to a small one -- where the remodeling continues as we move into the new space. Your posts will be the bright spot for me this week.)
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Postby Demosthenes » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:30 pm

jg wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:Flecompte takes the stand tomorrow, and when the prosecutor listed the names of all of the government's witnesses for possible juror conflicts, you'll never guess whose name was on that list...
Could it be........


"expert witness Dr. Walker Todd" ?


Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Walker Todd will be taking the stand as a prosecution witness next week. I verified it with the DOJ attorney.
Demo.

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Postby Demosthenes » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:32 pm

Day 1.

The Dim Duo once again are wearing drab prison clothes (khaki with pink undershirts), white sox, and blue canvas shoes. Johnson has to roll up the cuff of his pants because they're too long. They have sloppy posture and look like slobs.

The government's opening statement was dull as dirt. Instead of painting a picture of a dastardly scheme which enriched the defendants and screwed everyone else royally, they bored the jury with a detailed description of the plan itself. Throughout the government's dull dull opening, the dim duo were whispering to each other and giggling.

Johnson's opening was a bit more colorful. He started with a joke (the jury just stared coldly at him in response) and then called himself as an honest man. When the government objected, he started referring to himself as "the conman", a nickname he used for himself several times throughout the day.

Johnson told the jury that if they listened carefully, they'd get two gold watches from the trial. "If you listen to my case, your finances will be a lot better off" and "we are not going to offer any witnesses or evidence, because we want to enter a guilty plea as soon as possible."

You could almost hear the court room screech to a halt as the judge calmly asked the jury to take a brief recess.

Johnson told the judge that he has been trying to settle the case since day one. The prosecutor made it clear that there is no plea agreement.

Johnson offered to stipulate to all of the facts in the trial. The judge said that if Johnson want to plead guilty, he would have to say the words "I plead guilty." Johnson countered with, if he agreed to say the words, would the judge sentence him today? The judge said no, sentencing would occur only after a presentencing report ad been prepared, which Johnson found unacceptable.

And so the jury was called back in and the trial continued.

More details in a few minutes. I need to go to Starbucks.
Demo.

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Postby Prof » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:33 pm

Is Todd to be called as an adverse witness? Is he going to testify voluntarily? Is any of what the government is trying to prove getting thru to the jury?

I do appreciate the comic relief! I'm trying to find a place for all of these books.
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Postby Dezcad » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:47 pm

You couldn't make this stuff up. I can't wait for the next installment.....

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Postby Demosthenes » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:53 pm

Before I continue, let me beef up that last bit...
Johnson offered to stipulate to all of the facts in the trial. The judge said that if Johnson wants to plead guilty, he would have to say the words "I plead guilty." Johnson countered with, if he agreed to say those words, would the judge sentence him today? The judge said no, sentencing would occur only after a presentencing report had been prepared, which Johnson found unacceptable. Johnson asked if he could stipulate to the PSI and agree to take the maximum jail time and penalty under the statutes, but the judge said that would add up to 800 years in prison, so, no.
Demo.

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Re: The Dorean criminal trial has begun...

Postby Doktor Avalanche » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:36 pm

Demosthenes wrote:My favorite voir dire question:

Do you believe that aliens or UFOs have visited earth?


While I don't dismiss the possibility of advanced, intelligent life in the universe I don't think they've visited Earth (yet).

It's the distance that bothers me.
The laissez-faire argument relies on the same tacit appeal to perfection as does communism. - George Soros

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Re: The Dorean criminal trial has begun...

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Demosthenes wrote:My favorite voir dire question:

Do you believe that aliens or UFOs have visited earth?


Actually, it's useful. It helps weed out people who are more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories, on which many mythologies and crackpot schemes inherently rely.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
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The Devil Makes Three

neodemes

Re: The Dorean criminal trial has begun...

Postby neodemes » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:23 am

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:My favorite voir dire question:

Do you believe that aliens or UFOs have visited earth?


Actually, it's useful. It helps weed out people who are more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories, on which many mythologies and crackpot schemes inherently rely.


Wait a minute!

Are you implying aliens haven't visited Earth?

:shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby notorial dissent » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:32 am

Demo I am amazed and fascinated that the prosecution is calling Todd, I can’t begin to imagine what they are going to do with him, unless it would be to honestly answer some questions, but I find it hard to believe that he is there willingly after he has spent all these last years testifying for the looney binites. I really am curious as to what he is going to say or what they are going to ask him.

I’m sorry to hear they are putting on such a dull case, I would think they would have learned to be a bit more careful about boring your jurors into a torpor if you expect them to pay attention to what you are selling.

Somehow it doesn’t surprise me that the “boys” are putting on a show, although I kind of expected something a little more colorful than the let’s get up and make complete fools of ourselves defense. I really do like your characterization of their new look. Somehow it seems appropriate all things considered.

Flea should be interesting when they get to him, nothing like a true believer whose had a change of heart. Could get pretty vicious, particularly as he is generally a nasty piece of work to begin with and he is valiantly trying to save his hide now that the tides have shifted, and they have cost him everything at this point I believe.

I keep hoping the prosecution won’t bore the jury into ignoring them, but then we always have the “boys” who will probably offend them to the point there will be no possibility of sympathy for them at all, and they could well get 800 years.

Anyway, have fun.

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Re: The Dorean criminal trial has begun...

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:48 pm

neodemes wrote:
Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:My favorite voir dire question:

Do you believe that aliens or UFOs have visited earth?


Actually, it's useful. It helps weed out people who are more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories, on which many mythologies and crackpot schemes inherently rely.


Wait a minute!

Are you implying aliens haven't visited Earth?

:shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Good point :) but actually, no. In fact, I believe they exist. But I don't know, nor does it seem anyone else knows for certain whether they have visited the earth. :?: Lots of evidence from which to jump to a conclusion.

Hence, the key point is that despite there being no proof either way, one who believes that aliens have actually visited the earth is also more likely to believe in other, shall we say, less pragmatic stories, i.e., BOE's, pure trusts, debt-elimination, etc.

Ergo, one who believes that the whole financial infrastructure is a product of a vast conspiracy operated by the powerful (with the protection of their willing accomplices in government) is likely to also feel the same government's position on UFO's is suspect.

Tie that mistrust into your financial problems and all of a sudden (well, almost), you have a new internet hobby and can buy all kinds of nonsense to reinforce your hunches.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
The world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy.
The Devil Makes Three

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Postby Judge Roy Bean » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:09 pm

notorial dissent wrote:...I’m sorry to hear they are putting on such a dull case, I would think they would have learned to be a bit more careful about boring your jurors into a torpor if you expect them to pay attention to what you are selling.


I should point out that I've observed voir dire in a number of mortgage-related cases and can tell you there is a preponderance of "average citizens" who:
1 - Know someone who has had difficulties with their "lender" (generic term which includes the servicers);
2 - Know someone who lost a home either by being forced to sell or being foreclosed on;
3 - Themselves have been abused by a mortgage lender/servicer.
4 - Do not think of "banks" in general as entirely trustworthy (especially those associated with credit cards).

In one case, the Judge interrupted the potential juror's diatribe against one particular company so as not to taint the rest of the jury. Granted, counsel's question was rather open-ended, but the "victim" went on an unexpectedly detailed rant.

Having said that, the juries I've seen (exlcuding the above, of course) almost universally believed that you can't live in a house for free, no matter the evidence presented. In some cases, all the opposing counsel had to to show there were financial difficulties and intimate that the person was trying to get away with not having to pay to live there and anything the lender/servicer did was chalked up to a mistake made in the ordinary course of business.

I doubt some of the jurors will even attempt to deal with the "validity" of the Dorean scheme. What counts is they believe they have to make their mortgage or rent payment so everybody else should.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
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Demosthenes
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Postby Demosthenes » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:22 pm

Oh boy. Do I have some fun stories for you guys...
Demo.

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Dr. Caligari
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Postby Dr. Caligari » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:18 pm

Oh boy. Do I have some fun stories for you guys...


...don't keep us waiting!
Dr. Caligari

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