Dorean Trial II

Discussion of various forms of Advance Fee Fraud, including application fees for loans that never materialize, self-liquidating loan scams, as well as mortgage elimination scams and related debt elimination scams [Nigerian-type scams should go in the Nigerian 4-1-9 forum]
Judge Roy Bean
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Postby Judge Roy Bean » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:30 pm

Bates is little more than a marketing spokesperson for his "First American Monetary Consultants" sales operation.

Just think - you too can buy a machine to make your own colloidal silver!!! And don't forget to load up on Glutathione and of course buy (and even sign up as a dealer for) a fuel additive to get 50% better mileage.:roll: And in these end times you're going to need gold and silver coins (not bulliion because the ebil gubment can confiscate it at will) which you can conveniently buy from FAMC, too.

I categorize him in the imminent peril promoter crowd: "Join us at the fifteenth annual end-of-the-world conference!" :roll:
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notorial dissent
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Postby notorial dissent » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:52 pm

I find it curious, in the not surprising sense, that the only thing you can find on the esteemed gentleman is his own puffery, that and an article in Wiki would seem to pass as a fine bona fides in some circles. I actually did find the verification that he had served in the Tennessee House. I am curious if he actually has any real banking experience other than be the parking lot attendant at their drive up.

What I could find on him, as Demo and others pointed out puts him right in step with the lunatic guild and as a possible running mate for Ron Paul. In other words, my opinion is his credibility is sorely lacking, and on par with the boys pet CPA who seems to be mathematically as well as morally challenged. So far I haven’t seen anything to alter my opinion.

I can’t imagine then that he was much of defense witness, but since the other two really couldn't speak without opening themselves to prosecution they didn't have much left.

Scott from Vineland

Any news?

Postby Scott from Vineland » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:33 pm

Figured we might have heard something by now... Anyone?

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Demosthenes
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Postby Demosthenes » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:41 pm

11/13/2007 517 ORDER DISMISSING WITH PREJUDICE COUNTS 64 AND 65 IN THE SUPERSEDING INDICTMENTgranting 513 Motion to Dismiss as to Dale Scott Heineman (1), Kurt F. Johnson (2). Signed by Judge William H. Alsup on November 13, 2007. (whalc2, COURT STAFF) (Entered: 11/13/2007)

11/13/2007 519 FINAL CHARGE TO THE JURY AND SPECIAL VERDICT FORM as to Dale Scott Heineman, Kurt F. Johnson, The Dorean Group, The Oxford Trust, Baylor Trust, Universal Trust Services, William Julian, Farrel J. Lecompte, Jr, Sara J. Magoon, Charles Dewey Tobias. Signed by Judge William H. Alsup on November 13, 2007. (Attachments: # 1) (whalc2, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 11/13/2007) (Entered: 11/13/2007)

11/13/2007 520 Minute Entry for proceedings held before Judge William H. Alsup: Jury Trial as to Dale Scott Heineman, Kurt F. Johnson held on 11/13/2007. Closing Arguments made. Jury Instructions given. Dft used a four page chart during closing. Exhs. and Photos reviewed before going to jury. Further Jury Trial set for 11/14/2007 07:30 AM. (Court Reporter Sahar McVickar.) (dt, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 11/13/2007) (Entered: 11/14/2007)
Demo.

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Postby Dr. Caligari » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:58 am

Someone posting on Kurt's blog reports a guilty verdict today. Don't know if it's accurate.
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neodemes

Dorean Trial Verdict

Postby neodemes » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:09 am

Dr. Caligari wrote:Someone posting on Kurt's blog reports a guilty verdict today. Don't know if it's accurate.


I'd say its a safe bet.

justice7777777 said...

Jury came back with guilty verdict on all counts including Obstruction of Justice.

Johnson did not show a reaction to verdicts and Heineman was visibly shaken.


Well, so much for self-proclaimed prophets and the wind bags that fill their balloons.

Let's hear no more false promises regarding administrative judgments.

Speaking of judgments, it seems to me there are still some brokers in possession of assets who aren't 'going away'.
[url=http://real-estate-investors-resource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=232]
Dorean Victims Unite
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Judge Roy Bean
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Postby Judge Roy Bean » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:14 am

Odd - I don't recall off-hand that obstruction of justice was one of the counts.

One has to take into account the veracity of most of what is posted on that blog.

It will eventually make the news.
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neodemes

Postby neodemes » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:49 am

Judge Roy Bean wrote:Odd - I don't recall off-hand that obstruction of justice was one of the counts.

One has to take into account the veracity of most of what is posted on that blog.

It will eventually make the news.


I have it from a reliable source that obstruction was added.

(and to kiss his ass... :o ...hey, I'm just the messenger)

:wink:

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Postby Judge Roy Bean » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:34 am

neodemes wrote:
I have it from a reliable source that obstruction was added.

(and to kiss his ass... :o ...hey, I'm just the messenger)

:wink:


Sorry, it must be the hour. Last I looked there weren't any motions seeking to add to the indictment (only a recent one to remove two counts) and since the case has apparently been sent to the jury it's now too late.

Not that I would assume there aren't grounds given the dim duo's silly machinations, but we're all at the mercy of a very remote and delayed view of events at trial.
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Postby wserra » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:14 am

As you say, JRB, consider the source.

You can't just "add counts" to an indictment anytime, let alone during a trial. That's what superseding indictments are for. The only exception is a lesser-included offense, which (if there is a reasonable view of the evidence which supports conviction of the lesser but not the greater) must be charged on the request of either party, and may be charged sua sponte. It's hard to picture obstruction being a lesser of anything already charged.
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Postby Demosthenes » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:27 pm

Here's the jury verdict form. I don't see any obstruction charge on the list of counts or on the PACER docket.

http://www.cheatingfrenzy.com/johnson519-2.pdf
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Postby nobodyknows » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:19 pm

Well, if Heineman was obviously shaken by the guilty verdict, so much for their hopes FOR a guilty verdict. Obviously just a cover, knowing they would probably lose.

nobodyknows

Postby nobodyknows » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:21 pm

According to Kurt, that was his plan all along, to be found guilty. But WHY?????

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Postby webhick » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:25 pm

nobodyknows wrote:According to Kurt, that was his plan all along, to be found guilty. But WHY?????


That way, when he's found guilty, he can say that it only happened because that was his plan. He martyred himself. :roll:
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie

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Postby wserra » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:50 pm

Still no verdict on PACER. However, Judge Alsup entered the following order today:
Please make sure that all victims are given a timely opportunity to submit victim-impact
statements and to appear at the sentencing and speak.


It would be quite unusual to sentence someone who was acquitted, let alone solicit victim impact statements. They might make exceptions for the Dim Duo, however.
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Postby Dr. Caligari » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:29 pm

Latest at Kurt's blog:

The prosecution has rested on Thursday the 1st and we are now poised to begin our defense. This trial that I did not prepare for has been exhausting to manage on the fly but with God's help we are doing really well. I think we finished with a 90% chance of being convicted before we speak and that is pretty good. They have shot for a very certain target which is not where we reside. If I can only convince 12 people who know less about banking than my gullible uneducated clients that our intention was as a whistle blowing consumer advocacy then the tides will turn. The clients that came in are easily overcome and so are the bankers so the closing point is the credibility of Scott and Me. We were going to have a CPA testify but that was quashed by efforts of the prosecution which left me in a lurch with no outside credibility to our understanding of banking. Walker Todd was helpful in his first testimony though he is still tethered to the company line; He is being recalled and will testify on Monday the fifth. Hopefully I can elicit some better talking points especially if I am denied any expert testimony. Perhaps the loss of the CPA will net me a banker. The parties are willing but because of the short notice and the court's opposition to the truth there may be some hurdles to overcome. At the close of the government’s case a rule 29 motion for acquittal is optioned to the defense. I have prepared one without expectation but do believe it fully states the facts to preserve appeal issues. Secondly there will be the argument over jury instructions. This is generally where the judge decrees to the jury if they are breathing in their jail clothes they are guilty. To my surprise Mr. Alsup's instructions were not that painful. Are they prejudicial, most certainly, but not insurmountable. In the end the argument over these instructions will guarantee me a reversal on appeal. Don't worry I will not be going that direction but as a tactician I must be cautious and prevail on every front. I owe that as part of my duty. If you guys could only imagine what training it has taken me to prevail upon this court in a battle this severe with all the political ramifications you would be embarrassed that you thought of me so cheaply. I'm amazed at what surfaces within me at the time I need it and it is always there. Like Mordecai stated to Esther, "Perhaps you are called for such a time as this". It seems to make sense. Mr. Hall is one of the USA's most experienced trial lawyers and Judge Alsup is one of the benches mechanics so the deck is stacked but beating the best is what being a champion is all about. The enemy will not fear you if you beat their retards but if you beat their champion they have learned of your true strength.



There's a lot more, but most of the rest is bashing his son. (Nice guy, I know.)
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Nikki

Postby Nikki » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:35 pm

...
If I can only convince 12 people who know less about banking than my gullible uneducated clients that our intention was as a whistle blowing consumer advocacy then the tides will turn. The clients that came in are easily overcome and so are the bankers so the closing point is the credibility of Scott and Me.
...


Not really an opportune time to be bragging about how good a swindler he was.

This will read well at the sentencing hearing.

nobodyknows

Postby nobodyknows » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:57 pm

Anybody know exactly how long it took for the jury to come to a verdict? Obviously they weren't impressed with K&S's case.

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Postby notorial dissent » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:17 pm

nobodyknows wrote:According to Kurt, that was his plan all along, to be found guilty. But WHY?????

Well, gee, I guess he got his wish then didn't he.

It is still my opinion that right up until the verdict was given, that he actually thought he was going to win. No rational explanation other than that his ego wouldn't let him believe anything else.

I almost, almost I said, feel sorry for Scott, but he went along for the ride, and now he'll get to go along for the time, and judging by the laundry list it is probably going to be lengthy, particularly if they are asking for victim statements.

My understanding was that they recessed last Thurs, until this Tues for the defense to present and for summations, and that it then went to the jury then. I don't know if they deliberated then or just Wed, but it obviously wasn't much of a decision if they came back that quickly. I too would like to know how long they actually took.

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Postby Dr. Caligari » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:27 pm

I would like some actual official (or at least reliable if unofficial) confirmation that there in fact was a verdict.
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