FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Discussion of various forms of Advance Fee Fraud, including application fees for loans that never materialize, self-liquidating loan scams, as well as mortgage elimination scams and related debt elimination scams [Nigerian-type scams should go in the Nigerian 4-1-9 forum]
Judge Roy Bean
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FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:01 pm

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/06/23/FTCvFreedomForeclose.pdf

Another foreclosure rescue and loss-mitigation training scam is finally reined in. For now, at least.

cv-09-1167-PHX-FJM

FTC v.

Freedom Foreclosure Prevention Services, LLC, an Arizona limited liability company;
Loss Mitigation Training Centers of America, LLC, an Arizona limited liability company also doing business as Mastermind Consulting Group;
Jeffrey C. Segal, individually and as an officer of Freedom Foreclosure Prevention Services, LLC and Loss Mitigation Training Center of America, LLC; and
Michael R. Workman, individually and as an officer of Freedom Foreclosure Prevention Services, LLC;
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
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Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby ASITStands » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:25 pm

Must not! And, surprisingly, I had no trouble reading it.

What's with those guys anyway? Someone ought to pass them the "stylistic convention" manual, so they can get with it when it comes to formatting a proper document.

They're messing up all the affirmative defenses for all the sovereign-types.

sellyx

Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby sellyx » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:27 am

What are major consumer concerns about the nationwide foreclosure crisis? How are homeowners looking to avoid foreclosure? And how are investors looking to take advantage?
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Last edited by sellyx on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Prof » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:41 pm

I suggest the moderators spin off a new topic. Briefly, bankruptcy and demands for production of the original note are being used to resist foreclosure. Servicing agencies frequently make mistakes, and those mistakes are often challenged, particularly in bankruptcy courts.

Investors with cash are also buying lots of problem loans and then foreclosing, or, are buying at foreclosure or buying from the owner ( last is least likely event). Scam artists are working these distressed situations like the shark in JAWS.
Last edited by Prof on Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brandybuck

Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Brandybuck » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:45 pm

sellyx wrote:How are homeowners looking to avoid foreclosure?


Most homeowners avoid foreclosure by making their mortgage payments on time. Other less honorable homeowners are whining to the gub'ment that life isn't fair.

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Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Prof » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:51 pm

Brandybuck wrote:
sellyx wrote:How are homeowners looking to avoid foreclosure?


Most homeowners avoid foreclosure by making their mortgage payments on time. Other less honorable homeowners are whining to the gub'ment that life isn't fair.


What about homeowners who have been laid off or fired and can't find jobs? What about folks forced decide whether to buy medicine or pay a house payment after they've lost health insurance? What about retirees who have lost pensions or savings due to business failures of companies like GM or the market crash?

No, life isn't fair, but neither are most mortgage lenders. Even more to the point, many mortgage loan servicing companies are so incompetent that the homeowner cannot even determine how much is owed on the loan or how payments have been applied.

In other words, your snarky little comment might apply to some folks; it sure doesn't apply to most.
"My Health is Better in November."

Brandybuck

Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Brandybuck » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:23 pm

Prof wrote:What about homeowners who have been laid off or fired and can't find jobs? What about folks forced decide whether to buy medicine or pay a house payment after they've lost health insurance? What about retirees who have lost pensions or savings due to business failures of companies like GM or the market crash?


As a renter, I don't have much pity for overextended homeowners. Sh*t happens. It's part of life. Sometimes you lose your job. Sometimes the market fluctuates. Sometimes you get really screwed and some scam takes everything you've got. But that's not an excuse to treat homeowners like a privileged class.

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Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Prof » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:21 pm

Brandybuck wrote:
Prof wrote:What about homeowners who have been laid off or fired and can't find jobs? What about folks forced decide whether to buy medicine or pay a house payment after they've lost health insurance? What about retirees who have lost pensions or savings due to business failures of companies like GM or the market crash?


As a renter, I don't have much pity for overextended homeowners. Sh*t happens. It's part of life. Sometimes you lose your job. Sometimes the market fluctuates. Sometimes you get really screwed and some scam takes everything you've got. But that's not an excuse to treat homeowners like a privileged class.


While you might not want to treat homeowners as a special class, the current prosperity of the entire country is built upon the ownership of private homes, primarily single family residences on suburban lots. Government policy has largely encourged this consumer based economy since at least the end of WWII. On the other hand, if we all lived in Soviet style apartment blocks and took public transportation to work, we'd have a permanently unemployed/underemployed class of 25 plus percent, or more. On the upside, we would not have an illegal alien problem, because there would be no jobs for legal residents/citizens.

Until you learn a little more about economics, and learn a little more about sympathy for folks caught up in this or any other economic downturn, you might want to keep your sophomoric "sh*t happens" comments to yourself.
"My Health is Better in November."

Brandybuck

Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Brandybuck » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:00 am

Prof wrote:Until you learn a little more about economics, and learn a little more about sympathy for folks caught up in this or any other economic downturn, you might want to keep your sophomoric "sh*t happens" comments to yourself.


I do know enough about economics to know about moral hazard. When there is no downside to a risk then there is no incentive to take precautions. One type of moral hazard (securitizing risky mortgages) got us into this crisis, so creating another by bailing out all homeowners as policy will not solve it. Why should banks bother checking your credit when you apply for a home loan, when they know the government will make your payments for you if you're feeling a bit pinched? I'm asking this in all seriousness.

If someone got defrauded on their loan (by being lied to, mischaracterization of risk, excessively small print, etc), then they should be protected. If you have lost your job or otherwise are facing financial hardship, you should SELL your home so that you can keep your equity. Don't let emotional attachment cloud your financial judgment. But don't expect me to rend my beard over those caught with their pants down flipping houses when the bubble burst.

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Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Prof » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:23 am

Brandybuck wrote:
Prof wrote:Until you learn a little more about economics, and learn a little more about sympathy for folks caught up in this or any other economic downturn, you might want to keep your sophomoric "sh*t happens" comments to yourself.


I do know enough about economics to know about moral hazard. When there is no downside to a risk then there is no incentive to take precautions. One type of moral hazard (securitizing risky mortgages) got us into this crisis, so creating another by bailing out all homeowners as policy will not solve it. Why should banks bother checking your credit when you apply for a home loan, when they know the government will make your payments for you if you're feeling a bit pinched? I'm asking this in all seriousness.

If someone got defrauded on their loan (by being lied to, mischaracterization of risk, excessively small print, etc), then they should be protected. If you have lost your job or otherwise are facing financial hardship, you should SELL your home so that you can keep your equity. Don't let emotional attachment cloud your financial judgment. But don't expect me to rend my beard over those caught with their pants down flipping houses when the bubble burst.


You have no idea what you are talking about. Securitization and "government will make your payments" are two absolutely unlinked concepts. Come back when you have enough information to make sense.
"My Health is Better in November."

Brandybuck

Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Brandybuck » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:05 am

Prof wrote:You have no idea what you are talking about. Securitization and "government will make your payments" are two absolutely unlinked concepts.


Bother are examples of moral hazard. The first is an example of private firms creating the hazard, the second a commonly advocated government policy that would create the hazard. And both related to mortgages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard

Brandybuck

Re: FTC must not understand the ALL CAPS thingy (eh?)

Postby Brandybuck » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:06 am

p.s. I seem to have accidentally tread on your hot button. You should have it looked at before it gets infected.


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