FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Discussion of various forms of Advance Fee Fraud, including application fees for loans that never materialize, self-liquidating loan scams, as well as mortgage elimination scams and related debt elimination scams [Nigerian-type scams should go in the Nigerian 4-1-9 forum]
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wserra
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FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby wserra » Thu May 24, 2007 11:00 am

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/05/dsi.shtm

Maybe one day they'll get around to the Glihas and scambitrators of the world.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

twixxy

Postby twixxy » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:06 pm

Good deal.

It also seems that the Jona program that was discussed before is actually a SCAM. I know we all knew it was but the clients thought it was a legit porgram. Seems the owner has been hauled into court and now everyone is trying to figure out what to do.

Sad day for the many victims who believed they had actually found a solution to their debt. I don't see how all these people can get away with these programs and taking thousands from people needing help.

http://debtfreedom.proboards70.com/inde ... ogramworks

X-JONA agent

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby X-JONA agent » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:10 pm

I apologize to all who warned me about J.O'Neil & Associates aka "JONA" aka World Outlook.

This man continues to lie and rob money from clients from an undisclosed bunker in or around Houston Texas.

Now he is involved with a group called http://www.debt-forgiveness.org selling their DRP program under World Outlook management. What will he think of next?? :evil:

If you google JONA SCAM.COM or JONA RIPOFF REPORT you will see the newly created complaints against this shameless company.

Again, I apologize (and I am humbled) to those who warned me years ago about this indecent scammer. How can we put his derriere behind bars where he can't hurt anyone else??

UbiDubium

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby UbiDubium » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:54 am

wserra wrote:http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/05/dsi.shtm

Maybe one day they'll get around to the Glihas and scambitrators of the world.


I thought Gliha had been arrested and tried already. I can't believe he's still at large.

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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby wserra » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:54 pm

Gliha has been slinking along under the radar for years. Remember "Due Process Ltd"? The "Credit Collections Defense Network"? "Winning the Collections Game"? Now it's meet-the-new-scam-same-as-the-old-scam "Family First Debt Relief". He's someone else who claims not to know the difference between fractional-reserve banking and counterfeiting - except that he makes money from that ignorance.

A few years ago, he actually appeared here (damn, I wish we had those posts archived). When pressed, he provided a lengthy list of his "wins". Well over ninety percent lacked sufficient information to be even minimally verifiable. He messed up with two, and gave enough information for me to find them. One of them was a voluntary dismissal by the creditor bank because Gliha's "client" had fled the state. In the other, his "client" had made a motion for summary judgment based on his nonsense, which the judge denied out of hand.

Scammers count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

X-JONA agent

World Outlook "JONA" DRP

Postby X-JONA agent » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:10 pm

Can someone tell me if these last 2 recordings make any "legal" sense???


http://www.thebasementventures.com/free ... glist.html

bridge 529353, pin 3065

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please see updates on http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/3 ... 357989.htm

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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:17 pm

FYI - it appears the reason he's changed plans is he's simply copying Brad Daley's novation scheme (Court Mediation Services).

The sad part of this is if and when a creditor tires of the dance, they'll ignore (rightfully) the alleged legal authority of World Outlook and sue the original creditor. Double whammy.

Caution - anyone listening to O'Neil's drivel should prepare to lose some number of brain cells.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
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The Devil Makes Three

Pantekhnikon

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Pantekhnikon » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:30 pm

wserra wrote:Gliha ... someone else who claims not to know the difference between fractional-reserve banking and counterfeiting - ...

Scammers count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense.


Most of us are aware that in 1913 our representatives in Congress created the Federal Reserve and granted it the ability to practice something they like to call "Fractional Reserve Lending".

So please explain the difference between this legalized counterfeiting and ordinary (illegal) counterfeiting... other than the obvious difference - its being "legal" for the Federal Reserve Banks and illegal for everyone else.

Recently our trusted representatives in Congress also passed an 850 BILLION DOLLAR BAILOUT for these same Fed Res licensed banking institutions. Congress and Presidunce Bush all told us that we needed to bail them out so that they could free up credit and lend us more money to prop up the economy.

REALLY????

Would YOU give money to some losers to make them solvent again so that they could turn around and LOAN it right back to you at interest???

Scammers certainly DO count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense...

... or maybe the general public is waking up to the fact that Congress doesn't so much suspend their common sense, as sell it out to banking industry lobbists.

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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Prof » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:50 pm

Pantekhnikon wrote:
wserra wrote:Gliha ... someone else who claims not to know the difference between fractional-reserve banking and counterfeiting - ...

Scammers count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense.


Most of us are aware that in 1913 our representatives in Congress created the Federal Reserve and granted it the ability to practice something they like to call "Fractional Reserve Lending".

So please explain the difference between this legalized counterfeiting and ordinary (illegal) counterfeiting... other than the obvious difference - its being "legal" for the Federal Reserve Banks and illegal for everyone else.

Recently our trusted representatives in Congress also passed an 850 BILLION DOLLAR BAILOUT for these same Fed Res licensed banking institutions. Congress and Presidunce Bush all told us that we needed to bail them out so that they could free up credit and lend us more money to prop up the economy.

REALLY????

Would YOU give money to some losers to make them solvent again so that they could turn around and LOAN it right back to you at interest???

Scammers certainly DO count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense...

... or maybe the general public is waking up to the fact that Congress doesn't so much suspend their common sense, as sell it out to banking industry lobbists.


Except for the description of our current president, this is absolute crap. First, the original bailout was directed at entities which are not depository banks subject to the FDIC, such as Wall Street investment banks; some of those have now become or spun off depository banks during this time of market turmoil. The last time I looked, AIG was not a bank but an insurance company.

Second, Fractional Reserve Banking has little or nothing to do with the current market crisis.
Fractional Reserve Banking is regulation of the amount of reserves a regulated lender -- i.e., a bank insured by the FDIC, is required to maintain only some fraction of the deposits it receives as current "cash on hand." Bankers have always practiced "fractional reserve banking." If banks and other regulated lenders had to reserve 100% of deposits in order to maintain an adequate reserve in the event deposits were demanded by customers, then no bank could lend anything to anyone and therefore banks would merely be strong-boxes for depositers -- they would pay no interest and would impose a service charge for handling your money. Under the Federal Reserve System, the fractional amount of deposits required to be maintained in cash or cash equivalents is now determined by Federal regulations/regulators.

Another of the reasons for the Federal Reserve System is to provide for liquidity in the event of a bank run -- which is to say, if more than the fractional reserve (cash held for anticipated withdrawals) is demanded, the Fed advances cash to member banks in exchange for claims against assets (the member bank's loan portfolio and other assets) so that the unanticipated withdrawal demands can be paid.

Banking ultimately boils down to a simple business model:

Come in at 9am, go home at 5 pm.
Work in a nice, clean air-conditionned space.
Pay 3% to depositors ( money received on deposit create liabilities).
Lend deposited funds to borrowers at 6% (the loans are assets).
Keep expenses for offices, personnel, stationery and postage to less than 3%, including a reserve for bad loans.
Pay the difference to stockholders (dividends).
Play golf on Wed. afternoon.

I know this is simple, but the business model for any business boils down to keeping expenses to an amount lower than sales/income. The difference is called profit.
"My Health is Better in November."

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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:46 pm

Prof wrote:....
Banking ultimately boils down to a simple business model:

Come in at 9am, go home at 5 pm.
Work in a nice, clean air-conditionned space.
Pay 3% to depositors ( money received on deposit create liabilities).
Lend deposited funds to borrowers at 6% (the loans are assets).
Keep expenses for offices, personnel, stationery and postage to less than 3%, including a reserve for bad loans.
Pay the difference to stockholders (dividends).
Play golf on Wed. afternoon.

I know this is simple, but the business model for any business boils down to keeping expenses to an amount lower than sales/income. The difference is called profit.


Ah - sounds like a credit union to me. 8)

The drivel put out by the economy Luddites about "fractional reserve banking" has more to do with their fixation on the alleged mysteries of the Federal Reserve and Rothschild myths rooted in anti-semitism than it does with how lending actually works.
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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Prof » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:53 pm

I know; this is part of the old "vapor money" argument. Banks don't lend real money; they create the money out of thin air. Of course, it banks could create money out of thin air, WAMU and Indymac would not be in receivership and being liquidated by the FDIC receiver.
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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Demosthenes » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:50 pm

Pantekhnikon wrote:Most of us are aware that in 1913 our representatives in Congress created the Federal Reserve and granted it the ability to practice something they like to call "Fractional Reserve Lending".


Welcome back, Heidi.
Demo.

Nikki

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Nikki » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:14 am

Demosthenes wrote:
Pantekhnikon wrote:Most of us are aware that in 1913 our representatives in Congress created the Federal Reserve and granted it the ability to practice something they like to call "Fractional Reserve Lending".


Welcome back, Heidi.


She's not in jail yet :?:

Nikki

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Nikki » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:07 am

Demosthenes wrote:
Pantekhnikon wrote:Most of us are aware that in 1913 our representatives in Congress created the Federal Reserve and granted it the ability to practice something they like to call "Fractional Reserve Lending".


Welcome back, Heidi.


She, although she denies it, is back at Sooey, again -- as stupid and vehement as always.

A rational person, claiming not to be Heidi Guedel, would not choose a screen name of "heidig7"

She's even adopted the Crissie Hansen manner of referring to herself in the third person.

Demosthenes REALLY hurt her.

What will hurt her even more is when the vaporware book materializes and outsells all of Heidi's works, combined.

Thanks to Heidi for pointing out the error.
Last edited by Nikki on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pantekhnikon

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Pantekhnikon » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:21 am

Prof wrote:
Pantekhnikon wrote:
wserra wrote:Gliha ... someone else who claims not to know the difference between fractional-reserve banking and counterfeiting - ...

Scammers count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense.


Most of us are aware that in 1913 our representatives in Congress created the Federal Reserve and granted it the ability to practice something they like to call "Fractional Reserve Lending".

So please explain the difference between this legalized counterfeiting and ordinary (illegal) counterfeiting... other than the obvious difference - its being "legal" for the Federal Reserve Banks and illegal for everyone else.

Recently our trusted representatives in Congress also passed an 850 BILLION DOLLAR BAILOUT for these same Fed Res licensed banking institutions. Congress and Presidunce Bush all told us that we needed to bail them out so that they could free up credit and lend us more money to prop up the economy.

REALLY????

Would YOU give money to some losers to make them solvent again so that they could turn around and LOAN it right back to you at interest???

Scammers certainly DO count on desperate people to suspend their usual common sense...

... or maybe the general public is waking up to the fact that Congress doesn't so much suspend their common sense, as sell it out to banking industry lobbists.


Except for the description of our current president, this is absolute crap. First, the original bailout was directed at entities which are not depository banks subject to the FDIC, such as Wall Street investment banks; some of those have now become or spun off depository banks during this time of market turmoil. The last time I looked, AIG was not a bank but an insurance company.

Nice attempt at redirecting the discussion from banks to insurance companies... but I seem to recall hearing news stories about the taxpayers' funds being used to bailout lending institutions by purchasing billions of dollars of bad loans ... aka junk debt instruments. Do insurance companies make bad loans, Prof?

Second, Fractional Reserve Banking has little or nothing to do with the current market crisis.
Fractional Reserve Banking is regulation of the amount of reserves a regulated lender -- i.e., a bank insured by the FDIC, is required to maintain only some fraction of the deposits it receives as current "cash on hand."

Not exactly. A bank is required to limit its lending to a 'mere' nine times the amount of cash it has on hand... and oftentimes what the bank has "on hand" for reserves is just another debt instrument - like government securities which are shown on the banks books as "assets". It's nothing but a leaning tower of debt instruments... like dominos waiting to fall. This is what we are seeing now.

Bankers have always practiced "fractional reserve banking."

No they have not. Prior to Fractional Reserve lending, banks did lend out a portion of their depositors' actual funds and paid their depositors interest. But in Fractional Reserve lending, the banks lend out newly created money up to nine times the amount of their actual 'deposits' - (assets) which are often nothing but other debt instruments like 'securities'.

If banks and other regulated lenders had to reserve 100% of deposits in order to maintain an adequate reserve in the event deposits were demanded by customers, then no bank could lend anything to anyone and therefore banks would merely be strong-boxes for depositers --

Warehouse banks used to be just plain warehouses for depositors... then they began lending. Before Fractional Reserve Banking, lending institutions used to operate like the Credit Unions operate now.

I belong to a Federal Credit Union. It states in its business description that it is a not-for-profit co-op - a conservative, members-only saving and lending institution which lends out a portion of its depositors' money to its members only, and returns interest to its depositors. It has no shareholders... only members. It does not retain 100% of its deposits - it lends out a certain amount of its deposits to members who are worthy of the risk. It does NOT create new money with a bookkeeping entry and inflate the money supply.


...they would pay no interest and would impose a service charge for handling your money.

Banks pay very little interest now, thanks to the lowering of interest rates by the Fed. This action discourages saving and encourages borrowing... just what they WANT.

Under the Federal Reserve System, the fractional amount of deposits required to be maintained in cash or cash equivalents is now determined by Federal regulations/regulators.

No... try again. Under the Federal Reserve System, the banks lend out new money in amounts up to nine times the amount of 'assets' held on deposit. There is a big difference.

Another of the reasons for the Federal Reserve System is to provide for liquidity in the event of a bank run -- which is to say, if more than the fractional reserve (cash held for anticipated withdrawals) is demanded, the Fed advances cash to member banks in exchange for claims against assets (the member bank's loan portfolio and other assets) so that the unanticipated withdrawal demands can be paid.

You have just described the creation of money out of thin air. Where do you think the "money" comes from to "advance cash to member banks" in the event of a "run on the banks"? The Federal Reserve system was granted the right to create new money in order to preserve liquidity. Where do you think it comes from?

Banking ultimately boils down to a simple business model:

Come in at 9am, go home at 5 pm.
Work in a nice, clean air-conditionned space.
Pay 3% to depositors ( money received on deposit create liabilities).

So far so good....

Lend deposited funds to borrowers at 6% (the loans are assets).

OOPS. You're half right. The loans ARE shown on the banks books as assets... but the funds do not come from depositors' accounts. 100% of the depositors' funds are liabilities, and are available to be paid out on demand. This presumed security is touted to the public as a good reason to accept the creation of new funds via Fractional Reserve lending and its resulting inflation (which most people do not realize is a result of Fractional Reserve lending).

Keep expenses for offices, personnel, stationery and postage to less than 3%, including a reserve for bad loans.
Pay the difference to stockholders (dividends).
Play golf on Wed. afternoon.

Don't forget to retire your CEOs with Golden Parachutes of millions of dollars while the middle class buckles under the weight of high interest debt and gets hounded out of their homes when their adjustible rate mortgages climb into the stratosphere and the cycle of inflation - deflation bursts the housing bubble that they thought protected their investments.

I know this is simple, but the business model for any business boils down to keeping expenses to an amount lower than sales/income. The difference is called profit.

Another reason that I prefer Credit Unions :) They're non-profit... and they do not create money out of thin air.


Pantekhnikon

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Pantekhnikon » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:25 am

Oh... I almost forgot to ask...

Why do you suppose Presidunce Bush kept appearing on TV and begging America to support the idea of approving that multi-billion dollar bailout to enable these 'institutions' to loosen up and lend money to people again if he wasn't referring to banks???

I'm beginning to think that this media focus on AIG is a diversionary tactic.....

Pantekhnikon

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Pantekhnikon » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:36 am

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Ah - sounds like a credit union to me. 8)

The drivel put out by the economy Luddites about "fractional reserve banking" has more to do with their fixation on the alleged mysteries of the Federal Reserve and Rothschild myths rooted in anti-semitism than it does with how lending actually works.


Nope... credit unions are not authorized to create money via a fractional reserve lending process. They have to lend out a portion of their members' deposits.

Didn't you study that chart that Demosthenes posted here 4 years ago... the one which clearly demonstrated the creation of nine times as much "money" via fractional reserve lending?

And as for trying to blame peoples' displeasure about inflation and money creation on anti-semitism... that's like OJ playing the Race Card. Besides... since when was J.P. Morgan jewish? Morgan is a Scottish surname... and we scots are a bit tight-fisted with money ourselves.

Pantekhnikon

Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Pantekhnikon » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:51 am

Prof wrote:I know; this is part of the old "vapor money" argument. Banks don't lend real money; they create the money out of thin air. Of course, it banks could create money out of thin air, WAMU and Indymac would not be in receivership and being liquidated by the FDIC receiver.


This is about like Presidick Clinton saying that oral gratification is not "sex", and "I did not have sex with that woman".

Ahhhhh..... NOW Prof mentions WAMU and Indymac! And I thought he said that the bailout was only intended for insurance companies like AIG! OOPS!

XD

Prior to the likes of Gliha making a debt elimination issue out of money creation, the Fed Res reps openly ADMITTED creating money out of thin air - i.e. "Two Faces of Debt" appearing on a Fed Res webpage. Now that essay seems to have disappeared. Fancy that.

Instead of using creative accounting to stiff their stockholders while insiders play the stock market both coming and going (short sales on the way down... buying low on the way back up)... why not just forgive all the bad debt instruments... or just give a million bucks of funny money to every American citizen instead of soaking the taxpayers? THAT would only have cost the taxpayers 300 million instead of 850 BILLION.

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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:38 am

Pantekhnikon wrote:....

Nope... credit unions are not authorized to create money via a fractional reserve lending process. They have to lend out a portion of their members' deposits.


Sure. They are nothing more than nitwit entities that can't borrow from or invest in other sources of capital.

Pantekhnikon wrote:Didn't you study that chart that Demosthenes posted here 4 years ago... the one which clearly demonstrated the creation of nine times as much "money" via fractional reserve lending?


The so-what light is now flashing. The creation is temporary.

Pantekhnikon wrote:And as for trying to blame peoples' displeasure about inflation and money creation on anti-semitism... that's like OJ playing the Race Card. Besides... since when was J.P. Morgan jewish? Morgan is a Scottish surname... and we scots are a bit tight-fisted with money ourselves.


"People's displeasure?" It's not the vast majority of people who are displeased - it's the noisy minority of nutcases who love to tie things back to myths that just happen to coincide with their racism and bigotry. And you know Morgan is not the target subject of the kook squad.
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Re: FTC Shuts Down "Debt Elimination Lite" Scammers

Postby Demosthenes » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:56 am

Pantekhnikon wrote:And as for trying to blame peoples' displeasure about inflation and money creation on anti-semitism... that's like OJ playing the Race Card.


I guess you don't know the history of the theory you espouse.

Do a google search on the following and see what pops up: jew bankers fractional reserve banking

Prior to the likes of Gliha making a debt elimination issue out of money creation, the Fed Res reps openly ADMITTED creating money out of thin air - i.e. "Two Faces of Debt" appearing on a Fed Res webpage. Now that essay seems to have disappeared. Fancy that.


Gliha is little more than a pimple in the debt elimination world. The Fed doesn't even know he exists.
Demo.


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