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What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:46 am
by pigpot
As Quatloos is all about exposing scams what about this stuff? It's labelled 'quackery' but what's this forums take on it? Is it a redemption scam as someone somewhere is making money it and I thought it needs addressing as someone somewhere is making money concerning others well being and that's not a good thing however you look at it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157733/Bogus-breast-cancer-heat-scans-putting-lives-risk-claim-effective-mammograms-says-MP.html


Is alternative medicine such as cannabis oil good or not? General thoughts please.

Cheers. :wink:

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:16 am
by hardcopy
pigpot wrote:As Quatloos is all about exposing scams what about this stuff? It's labelled 'quackery' but what's this forums take on it? Is it a redemption scam as someone somewhere is making money it and I thought it needs addressing as someone somewhere is making money concerning others well being and that's not a good thing however you look at it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157733/Bogus-breast-cancer-heat-scans-putting-lives-risk-claim-effective-mammograms-says-MP.html


Is alternative medicine such as cannabis oil good or not? General thoughts please.

Cheers. :wink:

Prince Charles is into alternative medicine and the like, so I would have to conclude its all above board.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:27 am
by vampireLOREN
hardcopy wrote:
pigpot wrote:As Quatloos is all about exposing scams what about this stuff? It's labelled 'quackery' but what's this forums take on it? Is it a redemption scam as someone somewhere is making money it and I thought it needs addressing as someone somewhere is making money concerning others well being and that's not a good thing however you look at it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157733/Bogus-breast-cancer-heat-scans-putting-lives-risk-claim-effective-mammograms-says-MP.html


Is alternative medicine such as cannabis oil good or not? General thoughts please.

Cheers. :wink:

Prince Charles is into alternative medicine and the like, so I would have to conclude its all above board.


Maybe we should think that all medicine is an alternative, an alternative to being ill. :thinking:

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:31 am
by Hercule Parrot
I think 'alternative medicine' is a false and dangerous euphemism. It is used as a generic term for a very wide range of substances and activities, ranging from 'harmless but pointless' homeopathy to some very cruel and harmful 'cancer cure' scams.

If something is proven to be effective by objective and verifiable evidence then it is 'medicine'. Everything else is 'not medicine', and use should not be encouraged except within a medical/scientific research programme.

I don't know if Quatloos would want to extend to this arena. There are other forums which deal with it very well. I think that would be a question for the admin team.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:49 am
by pigpot
Hercule Parrot wrote:I think 'alternative medicine' is a false and dangerous euphemism. It is used as a generic term for a very wide range of substances and activities, ranging from 'harmless but pointless' homeopathy to some very cruel and harmful 'cancer cure' scams.

If something is proven to be effective by objective and verifiable evidence then it is 'medicine'. Everything else is 'not medicine', and use should not be encouraged except within a medical/scientific research programme.

I don't know if Quatloos would want to extend to this arena. There are other forums which deal with it very well. I think that would be a question for the admin team.


Points taken.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:52 am
by bmxninja357
Funny thing is if it was proven to be effective it would simply be called medicine. Got any double blind studies showing it's simply medicine?

Ninj

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:52 am
by Burnaby49
pigpot wrote:
Hercule Parrot wrote:I think 'alternative medicine' is a false and dangerous euphemism. It is used as a generic term for a very wide range of substances and activities, ranging from 'harmless but pointless' homeopathy to some very cruel and harmful 'cancer cure' scams.

If something is proven to be effective by objective and verifiable evidence then it is 'medicine'. Everything else is 'not medicine', and use should not be encouraged except within a medical/scientific research programme.

I don't know if Quatloos would want to extend to this arena. There are other forums which deal with it very well. I think that would be a question for the admin team.


Points taken.


This has already been flagged for review. I'm leaving it for a more experienced moderator but I'd delete as being outside of the Quatloos agenda.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:52 pm
by pigpot
Burnaby49 wrote:
pigpot wrote:
Hercule Parrot wrote:I think 'alternative medicine' is a false and dangerous euphemism. It is used as a generic term for a very wide range of substances and activities, ranging from 'harmless but pointless' homeopathy to some very cruel and harmful 'cancer cure' scams.

If something is proven to be effective by objective and verifiable evidence then it is 'medicine'. Everything else is 'not medicine', and use should not be encouraged except within a medical/scientific research programme.

I don't know if Quatloos would want to extend to this arena. There are other forums which deal with it very well. I think that would be a question for the admin team.


Points taken.


This has already been flagged for review. I'm leaving it for a more experienced moderator but I'd delete as being outside of the Quatloos agenda.


Fair enough. I thought it something worth raising but I'll gladly leave that to the discretion of the moderators here without any objection from me. This site is quite fair in its operation.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:17 pm
by YiamCross
hardcopy wrote:
pigpot wrote:As Quatloos is all about exposing scams what about this stuff? It's labelled 'quackery' but what's this forums take on it? Is it a redemption scam as someone somewhere is making money it and I thought it needs addressing as someone somewhere is making money concerning others well being and that's not a good thing however you look at it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157733/Bogus-breast-cancer-heat-scans-putting-lives-risk-claim-effective-mammograms-says-MP.html


Is alternative medicine such as cannabis oil good or not? General thoughts please.

Cheers. :wink:

Prince Charles is into alternative medicine and the like, so I would have to conclude its all above board.


Since when did Prince Charles become an accredited expert on medicine and medical matters? What if the queen thinks it's rubbish, does the fact that she outranks him make her right? Prince Charles' opinion is worth the same as any other opinion, nothing without some evidence to back it up. There is no evidence that any "alternative" therapy has any useful effect. Homeopathy, which is one of Charlie's pet projects, is a complete crock at every level. Theoretically, in practice, you name it, there's nothing.

Cannabis is great for getting stoned on but if it was that great as a cure for cancer there's no way Bob Marley could have died from it. But he did.

The only alternative to medicine is not medicine.

Relying on "alternative" remedies is pretty much the same as using WeRe bank cheques to get out of debt. It might help you feel better for a while but nothing has changed and frequently all that will come of it is a worse outcome than if you'd done nothing. Chiropracty is especially good at doing serious and permanent damage.

All these alternatives to reality share the same hallmark. Zero credible evidence they work and a lot of interested parties dissing proven remedies with blatant lies and telling stories which rarely have any basis in fact. Digging a little deeper when someone appears to have recovered invariably reveals an example where someone just got better because people often do or who's been using real medicine but forgot to mention it or deliberately hid it.

Jesus H Christ on a bicycle, how did I wander into the pigpen?????

Help!!

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:23 pm
by pigpot
YiamCross wrote:Jesus H Christ on a bicycle, how did I wander into the pigpen?????

Help!!


Hey man!!! Just thank yourself lucky you made it and stayed around. Most don't. Big smile brother. :o :lol: :wink:

I'm on 77, this'll be 78. (Edited: Wrong 76 going onto 77). Who knows where the future lies. I may become a Statist myself. Law and order and stuff. Floating my boat somewhat.

Rob in the "Cupboard" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-q07M1sOuA

Does he have a point? I'm not sure. "Crackers and fish nuts." Ask his old mate "bmx" what that means. He'll know... Out of anybody. He claims to have known Rob quite well. Though he distances himself now.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:44 pm
by wserra
It takes a certain . . . talent to go that far off-topic on p 1 of one's own thread.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:49 pm
by wserra
YiamCross wrote:
hardcopy wrote:Prince Charles is into alternative medicine and the like, so I would have to conclude its all above board.

Since when did Prince Charles become an accredited expert on medicine and medical matters?


My guess is that hardcopy was using sarcasm.

Then again, it could have been dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire. He knows all the tricks.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:31 pm
by JamesVincent
Quatloos has delved into the medical scam field before, we even had a place for it (didn't check to see if it was still there). A lot of the MLM world is based around alternative medicine, using homeopathy or other "cures" for everything from fibromylagia to psoriasis to cancer.

What in particular are you talking about? Using an Aloe Vera plant to help heal burns is a pretty proven alternative to using chemicals, certain herbs have their uses for curing minor injuries and things like an upset stomach, and taking a vitamin D supplement does help keep off winter depression. All of these are considered alternative.

As far as cannibus oil it is supposedly very good for helping with seizures so I have looked into (since both of my daughters have seizures). I have seen a ton of personal testimony, everything from my child had a 100 seizures a day before using the oil, now they don't have any, to it help my husband fight cancer. I have yet to see one pure research study done on it to say it does what they claim it can do. However, it has been used to treat chronic pain, not necessarily the oil but actually smoking it, is used in treatment everyday. It was even recommended to me to help with my TGN.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:36 pm
by YiamCross
wserra wrote:
YiamCross wrote:
hardcopy wrote:Prince Charles is into alternative medicine and the like, so I would have to conclude its all above board.

Since when did Prince Charles become an accredited expert on medicine and medical matters?


My guess is that hardcopy was using sarcasm.

Then again, it could have been dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire. He knows all the tricks.


Sorry, came over a bit American for a moment there. Check, check, cheque... Okay, I'm better now.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:58 pm
by YiamCross
JamesVincent wrote:Quatloos has delved into the medical scam field before, we even had a place for it (didn't check to see if it was still there). A lot of the MLM world is based around alternative medicine, using homeopathy or other "cures" for everything from fibromylagia to psoriasis to cancer.

What in particular are you talking about? Using an Aloe Vera plant to help heal burns is a pretty proven alternative to using chemicals, certain herbs have their uses for curing minor injuries and things like an upset stomach, and taking a vitamin D supplement does help keep off winter depression. All of these are considered alternative.

As far as cannibus oil it is supposedly very good for helping with seizures so I have looked into (since both of my daughters have seizures). I have seen a ton of personal testimony, everything from my child had a 100 seizures a day before using the oil, now they don't have any, to it help my husband fight cancer. I have yet to see one pure research study done on it to say it does what they claim it can do. However, it has been used to treat chronic pain, not necessarily the oil but actually smoking it, is used in treatment everyday. It was even recommended to me to help with my TGN.


Looking at the breadcrumb trail on my screen I see this topic is posted in Other Scams and Medical Quackery. Can't be sure if it was intentional or a happy accident but I have to admit PP has put managed to drop this thread into the right box.

I tend to agree with the post above and say anything proven to be effective in curing or relieving the symptoms of a disease or injury is not alternative. It may fall into the category of natural therapy which is a set I believe has a slight intersection with the set of real medicine but if it has some evidential weight behind it I can't see how it can be called alternative.

I suppose it might be some kind of defence to claim you were sparking up a fat one to relieve the pain from a medical condition, then again maybe not. Let me know how it goes if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself up in front of the beak for possession. Then again, in many American states you can buy your stash legally from medical hash suppliers if you have registered appropriately and toke 'til you're numb with no fear of incarceration.

Passing the kouchey to a cancer sufferer deluded by lies and tall stories that it's better than going to a doctor for proper treatment would come into the set of pure evil in my book. In some cases, however, it might be a better way to go than filling your last days with the pain and agony of a course of chemo which almost certainly won't work either.

As far as I'm concerned a person is entitled to make whatever decision they desire so long as it's properly informed and not tainted with lies and disinformation and I accept that doctors are not always straight with their patients either. About the only useful thing a freeman ever said, do your research, come to your own conclusions.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:33 pm
by Pottapaug1938
I will say only one thing on this subject. My wife developed ovarian cancer in 2003, and because she has access to world-class cancer treatment, she is alive and doing well today. Had she oped for so-called "alternative treatment", I would have scattered her ashes long ago.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:29 am
by eric
pigpot wrote:
YiamCross wrote:Jesus H Christ on a bicycle, how did I wander into the pigpen?????

Help!!


Hey man!!! Just thank yourself lucky you made it and stayed around. Most don't. Big smile brother. :o :lol: :wink:

As an electrical engineer turned pig farmer I take personal offense to that remark. One of my boys has been acting out lately so perhaps, in the absence of Derek Johnson, it would be appropriate to let him vent his frustrations on a non-pig admirer. BTW, Bandit is a fine example of virile porcine beauty, weighs 1200 pounds, has intact tusks and can out run a human... just kidding. :snicker:

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:22 am
by Jeffrey
Alt Medicine is more of a Randi forums topic.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:54 am
by YiamCross
Change is as good as a rest, they say. I suppose for so long as we feed him pigpot will continue to come out from under his bridge to try and stop us crossing.

Re: What about alternative medicine?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:34 pm
by NYGman
I think as long as you view alternative medicine as supplemental, and talk to your doctor to ensure what you are taking is not interfering with the real medicine, then there is little to loose from alternative medicine. Not to say I believe in Homeopathy, but studies have shown acupuncture can work for some things, and there are herbs that do have medicinal properties.

However, relying on alternative medicine alone, or using it without informing your doctor, is just stupid.