Mutter's analysis

[Famspear]

Mutter, since the other thread was closed (as being up to its limit of length), I've opened this thread to continue discussion.

You are right to have an open mind, to go slow and take your time with your study.

[Prof]

Mutter, since the other thread was closed (as being up to its limit of length), I've opened this thread to continue discussion.

You are right to have an open mind, to go slow and take your time with your study.

What Famspear said.

[Famspear]

And, just for ease of future reference, here is the link to the end of the recently-closed thread that contains the earlier part of the discussion....

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3685&p=57592#p57592

EDIT: And here is the link to the place at losthorizons.com where Mutter admits that he was wrong about The Tax Protester FAQ by Daniel B. Evans:

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... 2977#12977

I have been studying losthorizons.com almost every day for a year and a half, and I cannot remember another specific time where a regular poster over there has done something like this. I believe Mutter deserves respect for taking a second look at all this, which he is now in the process of doing.

[Imalawman]

Mutter, there a few recovered and recovering TPs on here. I know you're not fully convinced yet, but just keep studying. Most importantly, I hope this gives you pause before screwing up your tax returns and causing years of hell for nothing. You joked earlier about us letting you know about case law and such - its true, we'll dig up any case you like. We're not evil shills, most of us fight the IRS on a daily basis. (fight isn't really the right word as much as it is working with the IRS to reach a good resolution for the client)

[Famspear]

Mutter, there a few recovered and recovering TPs on here. I know you're not fully convinced yet, but just keep studying. Most importantly, I hope this gives you pause before screwing up your tax returns and causing years of hell for nothing. You joked earlier about us letting you know about case law and such - its true, we'll dig up any case you like. We're not evil shills, most of us fight the IRS on a daily basis. (fight isn't really the right word as much as it is working with the IRS to reach a good resolution for the client)

Yes, and as Dan indicated in the prior thread, many of us here actually represent taxpayers in their dealings with the IRS. That's what I do; I have never worked for the government. If the IRS were always deemed to be right, then we wouldn't need tax attorneys, CPAs and others who represent taxpayers, and we wouldn't need a court system to resolve disputes with the IRS. We also wouldn't need a good sized chunk of the Internal Revenue Code and other statutes that deal with the process of resolving disputes with the government over taxes.

[webhick]

Mutter,

The Illuminati are very disappointed in you. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, you should have tried to pass the blame off on the person three steps to your right (or, in lieu of that, an inanimate object that takes quarters and abuse) - per our "Smelt It, Dealt It" rule. As punishment, we will stop spiking your drinking water with frog spit and rodent tears.

Now, should you find that the withdrawals are a bit too much for you to stand, we offer repentance opportunities twice a month in the basement of our headquarters. Don't bother trying to complain if you emerge with less appendages than when you entered, either. That only prompts us to point and laugh at your futile attempts to alert the authorities.

[mutter]

the Pause occured last year. i wont get into details right now
but i fully expect when the time comes to get some advice on how to unscrew myself for those couple of years I did file.
Once I am conviced I was totaly wrong. I will have to correct my forms with new submissions. IE owe up to it and pay up to it.
which isnt going to be easy in this economy.

[mutter]

Mutter,

The Illuminati are very disappointed in you. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, you should have tried to pass the blame off on the person three steps to your right (or, in lieu of that, an inanimate object that takes quarters and abuse) - per our "Smelt It, Dealt It" rule. As punishment, we will stop spiking your drinking water with frog spit and rodent tears.

Now, should you find that the withdrawals are a bit too much for you to stand, we offer repentance opportunities twice a month in the basement of our headquarters. Don't bother trying to complain if you emerge with less appendages than when you entered, either. That only prompts us to point and laugh at your futile attempts to alert the authorities.

if ive ever heard anyone, besides George Carlin, God rest his soul, that needs to be drug tested its you! of course the purpose of the tests are so we can take what you are taking.

[mutter]

Mutter, please understand that while those of us here pay our taxes, it in no way means we like it, or that we think the Internal Revenue Code is perfect. We don't. We are just practical and realize there are better ways to potentially change the IRC.

The assembled multitudes here contain lawyers, CPAs, business people, CFPs, people with their Series 7 licenses, and other who in one form or another deal with the IRC on a regular, ongoing basis. This means you have here a wealth of people who can cite court cases, or explain the workings of the IRC and the practical applications of the IRC in the real world.

More importantly, we are not going to blow smoke up your kilt and try and tell you it is a sea breeze. We will give you the truth, even if it seems ugly and unvarnished.

And please remember this old adage, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

Finally, learn this well, the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion is........about 5 to 10 years.

My main issue is that half of what we work for is taken by one form of government or another. then misappropriated abused how ever you would like to put it. i guess out of the frustration of feeling powerless I allowed myself to be convinced of things I should have known better not to accept. Or in other words I mind F**ked myself. My masters would be ashamed of me for such a fundamental error.

[grixit]

Do it before you finish the course work to become a paralegal. I am guessing there is not much calling for a paralegal with ugly tax issues.

True, but you might become a cabinet member.

[Nikki]

Mutter,

The Illuminati are very disappointed in you. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, you should have tried to pass the blame off on the person three steps to your right (or, in lieu of that, an inanimate object that takes quarters and abuse) - per our "Smelt It, Dealt It" rule. As punishment, we will stop spiking your drinking water with frog spit and rodent tears.

Now, should you find that the withdrawals are a bit too much for you to stand, we offer repentance opportunities twice a month in the basement of our headquarters. Don't bother trying to complain if you emerge with less appendages than when you entered, either. That only prompts us to point and laugh at your futile attempts to alert the authorities.

if ive ever heard anyone, besides George Carlin, God rest his soul, that needs to be drug tested its you! of course the purpose of the tests are so we can take what you are taking.

There is a sample of WebHick's blood (under extremely careful guard) at the National Institute for Standards and Technology where it is used to calibrate drug-testing equipment.

Unfortunately, NIST has not yet received equipment which, when exposed to the sample, did not (1) explode, (2) fall into irrecovable rapture, or (3) sit there and scream "More, more!"

[RyanMcC]

My main issue is that half of what we work for is taken by one form of government or another. then misappropriated abused how ever you would like to put it. i guess out of the frustration of feeling powerless I allowed myself to be convinced of things I should have known better not to accept. Or in other words I mind F**ked myself. My masters would be ashamed of me for such a fundamental error.

I'm glad that you came here to post Mutter, and I'm impressed with your attitude.

They don't say it takes a big man to admit he's wrong for nothing. A few CtC regulars have come here to post in the past, only to disappear after being shown their positions are incorrect. I suspect they knew they were wrong, just unwilling to admit it or accept it.

You have shown far more intellectual honesty than most visitors here that subscribed to a TP theory, I am impressed. If you need advice on how to fix any past mistakes you may have made I'm sure a number of people here would be willing to point you in the right direction.

Good luck to you.

[mutter]

If the Sec of the Treasury can say " Opps sorry I made a mistake" then I should be able to use the same 'excuse'
Any bets on how long it will take for that to make it into court?

[Dezcad]

In the previously locked thread:

Feel free to come to a forum where free and open discussion of issues is welcomed and encouraged.

Not going to happen.

Mutter and the other Crackheads don't want a "free and open discussion of issues." They want reassurance that they are right and everyone else in the world is wrong. They will continue to wallow in the intellectual pigsty at LH, and will continue to support the exclusion of any voice of reality, because that is where and how they are most comfortable.

You may learn something, in addition to proper grammar and spelling.

That's not going to happen either.

For what may be the first time on this forum, Dan, you appear to have been wrong.

[Demosthenes]

If the Sec of the Treasury can say " Opps sorry I made a mistake" then I should be able to use the same 'excuse'
Any bets on how long it will take for that to make it into court?

It's already appeared in Pete's most recent filing.

5 Many, even prominent individuals such as Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geitner and Health and Human Services Secretary designee, Tom Daschle, find it difficult to do this correctly.

[mutter]

My main issue is that half of what we work for is taken by one form of government or another. then misappropriated abused how ever you would like to put it. i guess out of the frustration of feeling powerless I allowed myself to be convinced of things I should have known better not to accept. Or in other words I mind F**ked myself. My masters would be ashamed of me for such a fundamental error.

Do not confuse the collection of taxes with how they are spent. The seeming misuse of tax dollars by government is a political matter best addressed by voting out the scoundrels and electing people wiling and able to work on being wiser with tax dollars, as well as reforming the tax codes. Blaming the tax collector for government's idiotic moments is like blaming the bullets for going through you, not the person pulling the trigger.

I live in California, and after withholdings, exemptions, itemized deductions, my actual tax bite is closer to 30% or so. I also adjust my withholdings so at tax time I owe or have to pay very little.

Now factor in gas tax, tolls, etc along with inflation. youll get up to the 50% pretty quick.
it seems that people want to keep voting the same idiots back into office especially on a local level. Delaware is nothing but a big political fifdum. its really disgusting. And as we can see from 4 different nominees, politicians dont seem to want to pay their fair share

[mutter]

If the Sec of the Treasury can say " Opps sorry I made a mistake" then I should be able to use the same 'excuse'
Any bets on how long it will take for that to make it into court?

It's already appeared in Pete's most recent filing.

5 Many, even prominent individuals such as Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geitner and Health and Human Services Secretary designee, Tom Daschle, find it difficult to do this correctly.

Link that would you please. I want to read the whole thing.

[Demosthenes]

Sure thing, Mutter.

In case you're curious about the context of the filing, I'll give you all three relevant documents.

Pete's motion to dismiss the criminal lawsuit:
http://www.cheatingfrenzy.com/hendrickson18.pdf

The government's response to Pete's motion:
http://www.cheatingfrenzy.com/hendrickson21.pdf

Pete's reply to the goverment's response:
http://www.cheatingfrenzy.com/hendrickson23.pdf

Pete's premise is that the government is selectively prosecuting him as punishment for writing a book. He makes no attempt to rely on or argue the merits of the actual legal opinions he outlines in his book.

[mutter]

yea i laughed at the motion to dismiss.
"the govs picking on me, motion to dismiss"
it was stupid and poorly written too.
I ve not read his reply thou.

[LPC]

Not going to happen.

For what may be the first time on this forum, Dan, you appear to have been wrong.

Yes, it looks like I was wrong.

And I'm glad.