the "W-O (private)" form

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Gregg
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Gregg »

Whoever corruptly or by force or threats of force (including any threatening letter or communication) endeavors to intimidate or impede any officer or employee of the United States acting in an official capacity under this title, or in any other way corruptly or by force or threats of force (including any threatening letter or communication) obstructs or impedes, or endeavors to obstruct or impede, the due administration of this title ...
I'm wondering if all the crackheads letters that begin with "This is constructive notice...blah blah blah..." that go so far as to bring up that the author is going to invoke various criminal statutes about "acting under the color of law" blah blah blah.... rise to this level. My good buddy Kensei comes to mind, he seems to be pretty aggressive in the things he claims to be telling anyone who won't listen to him. I recall several letters he's posted and his tail of woe regarding his wife's place of employment. Myself, if I ran the company that his wife worked for, she wouldn't work there anymore, and the same goes for anyone that would come to me with any of this garbage. Why, well, you're making a pain in the ass of yourself, and since I won't comply with this stuff, and I have seen what these nuts are capable of on the LH site, among other things I just don't want people in my employ wasting time arguing with you, I don't want to run the risk of you trying to sue me which even if frivolous will take up more of my resources to deal with, and people with that kind of attitude will eventually get around to trying to get even with me because I won't drink the kool aid. So short story, when someone starts trying to trick or bully or annoy me with this stuff, I'll show them the door. I'm running a business, not a tax law debating club.

CK, in answer to your question, my tax return is done by an accountant, I never did tax when I was an accountant and I could never hope to keep up with all the changes,,,,I file 1040, sched C and sched A, not too complicated but it runs about 15 pages. I paid $1300 for preperation this year, so you can figure how long it took them from that, more or less.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by wserra »

Weston White wrote:
wserra wrote:What type of "lawsuit" would that be? [Referring to WW's claim, if I understand it correctly, that since his employer was ignoring his requests, he has no recourse other than a "lawsuit".]
Civil, they caused undue pain and suffering through their negligence, my pay was noticeably reduced each pay period.
When I asked for the type of "lawsuit" you were contemplating, I didn't mean "Make one up". I meant cite law that permits you to sue your employer for (I think) withholding. After all, I can tell my neighbor that the color he painted his house disturbs the wa of my household and that, unless he changes it, I will sue. That doesn't mean the suit would get anywhere except sanctioned. So: what authority permits you to sue your employer for insisting on obeying the law and withholding from your salary?
The “employers” obligations would be located under the individual state statutes and codes where the violation took place, most likely in the form of civil law;
Please cite one "state statute or code" provision which makes withholding actionable.
unless criminal acts such as willful fraud, extortion, conspiracy, etc. actually took place in the process.
Please cite one statute which defines withholding as a criminal act.
Though they are certain Title 18 violations that could be considered, depending upon the circumstances.
Please cite one provision of Title 18 which an employer who withholds violates.
I have attempted to address this issue through several means, to no avail. I have written several letters all without a response, to both their attorneys and to payroll. I have attempted to address this through my union representative, he could care less.
To most people, such notable lack of success would be a hint and a half.
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Famspear
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Famspear »

Weston White wrote:I believe it was approved for "submission" as a proposed form though never for "OMB review", e.g. compare the 1040NR to the 1040; why is the former in compliance and the latter not?
Assuming arguendo that you are correct, who cares?
Regulations have no binding effect upon the populace until set in compliance with 44 USC pertaining to the Federal Register.
Again, who cares? Form 1040 is not a "regulation." And the Treasury regulations that prescribe the use of Form 1040 are valid.
This exposes the truth about the IRC, most of all penalty sections apply to Title 27 (which was moved into Subtitle E of Title 26) or is NULL so far as the implementing regulations are concerned.
No. This does not expose the "truth"; the "truth" in which you believe, Weston, does not exist. You have simply copied this from tax protester web sites. I've seen it all before. The sure sign is the reference to "Title 27." I've seen it a million times.
This is why the IRC is noting but a gigantic paper tiger. It has a slight sting with no bite.
Tell that to Irwin Schiff, Larken Rose, Richard Simkanin, Bonita Lynne Meredith, Edward Lewis Brown, Elaine Brown, etc. And regarding people who managed to stay out of jail but whose tax problems continued, tell it to Tommy Cryer, Vernice Kuglin, etc.

No, Weston, you do not believe that the IRC is "noting [sic] but a paper tiger." We're not buying it. You are whistling past the graveyard. You are blowing smoke.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by LPC »

Weston White wrote:P.S. Yes I admit it I tend to do that frequently, type the synonym of a word, most of the time I catch myself, sometimes they slip by me.
You mean homonym, not synonym.
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LOBO

Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by LOBO »

Weston White wrote: I called the IRS and my only protection is to file a 3949-A form, which I did, never heard anything back from the IRS of course... no surprise... nothing else I can do except file a lawsuit.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

I take it you called the IRS to report on your employer (eeek...i mean the non-federally privileged company that you work for), so they sent you the informant form.

After the IRS received it, someone most likely read that you were reporting them for not accepting a bogus W4. Aside from not being required to send a response to the sender of an informant letter or form, that person also couldn't reply because the coffee that was snorted out through his nose shorted out his computer.
LOBO

Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by LOBO »

Weston White wrote:At least last time I studied that theory; which BTW, is how Mr. Springer claimed he got his case dismissed. Not that I really want to debate about this, I was just pointing it out, yet a another nail in the coffin concerning the IRS' illegitimacy.
Since nobody else pointed it out here's a previous discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=458

The case was dismissed because the prosecution screwed up the math and couldn't amend the indictment.

He has been re-indicted.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3939
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by LPC »

LOBO wrote:
Weston White wrote:At least last time I studied that theory; which BTW, is how Mr. Springer claimed he got his case dismissed. Not that I really want to debate about this, I was just pointing it out, yet a another nail in the coffin concerning the IRS' illegitimacy.
Since nobody else pointed it out here's a previous discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=458
That link is to a 10th Circuit decision that affirmed decisions in three cases that Springer lost. The 10th Circuit affirmed all of the rulings against Springer, imposed additional sanctions of $8,000 for filing frivolous appeals, and enjoined him from filing any other actions unless he was represented by a licensed attorney or obtained the permission of the court. Lindsey K. Springer v. Internal Revenue Service, 2007 TNT 86-1, Nos. 05-6387, 06-6268, and 06-5123 (10th Cir. 5/1/2007), aff'ng Nos. CIV-05-466-F and CIV-05-1075 (W.D. Okla.) and No. 06-CV-110 (N.D. Okla.), cert. den. S. Ct. Dkt. Nos. 07-737, 07-738, 07-739 (1/14/2008).
LOBO wrote:The case was dismissed because the prosecution screwed up the math and couldn't amend the indictment.
I think that you (and WW) are thinking of Robert Lawrence. From http://tpgurus.wikidot.com/robert-lawrence :

Robert Lawrence was prosecuted for failing to file tax returns in United States v. Lawrence, 2006 TNT 153-15, No. 06-10019 (U.S.D.C. C.D. Ill.), but the United States withdrew the charges and moved to dismiss the case after discovering that the tax calculations in the indictment were incorrect.

Some tax protesters claim that the case is some kind of evidence that the "Paperwork Reduction Act defense" will work because the government moved to dismiss the indictment after Lawrence had raised the PRA defense, but it turns out that the timing of the events was a coincidence. In response to a motion by Lawrence for legal fees from the government, the government explained that, in preparing for trial, it had discovered errors in the calculations of some of the taxes alleged to have been owed by Lawrence and that the amounts actually owed were less than what was claimed in the indictment. The judge refused to allow the government to amend the indictment, and so the government decided to dismiss the indictment rather run the risk that the jury would not convict Lawrence when it learned that the government itself could not accurately calculate his tax liabilities. In ruling for the government on the issue of legal fees, the judge stated that “In light of the cases that had addressed the PRA of 1980, as of the time that Lawrence was prosecuted, the Government had good reason to believe that the PRA defense (even based on the amended PRA of 1995) would not provide someone who failed to pay income taxes with a valid defense,” and referred to the possibility that a court might rule that the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995 is a valid defense for failing to pay taxes as “unlikely.” The court therefore concluded that “Lawrence’s argument that the Government should have known that this [PRA defense] was the law at the time that Lawrence was prosecuted is ridiculous.” United States v. Lawrence, 2006 TNT 153-15, No. 06-10019 (U.S.D.C. C.D. Ill. 7/31/2006).

I'm not sure how an argument that the court described as "unlikely" or "ridiculous" is putting any nails in any coffins.
LOBO wrote:He has been re-indicted.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3939
Springer has been indicted for the first time.
Dan Evans
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by ASITStands »

I see Dan has answered 'LOBO' before I had an opportunity to complete my newest PRA rant. With apologies to the sensibilities of the readers, I submit the following "gibberish."
LOBO wrote:Since nobody else pointed it out here's a previous discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=458

The case was dismissed because the prosecution screwed up the math and couldn't amend the indictment.

He has been re-indicted.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3939
And, just to keep things within the realm of accuracy:

It was the indictment of Robert Lawrence that was dismissed, not Lindsey Springer.

And, Springer has only now been indicted, not re-indicted.

Bob Schulz wrote an article on the dismissal in which Lawrence and Springer indicated, it was their opinion, the case was dismissed due to the Paperwork Reduction Act argument.

As 'LOBO' suggests, "Shortly before trial, the government discovered an error in computing the tax amount due," but critics suggest that was no reason to dismiss with prejudice.

By carefully reviewing the timeline of events, and the last minute submission of evidence by Attorney Stilley, proponents of the PRA argument maintain the indictment was dismissed due to the government not being ready to argue the Paperwork Reduction Act in court.

Be that as it may, a math error remains no reason to dismiss with prejudice, in my opinion.

As an aside, I noticed in the NY Times article, pg. 3:
The truly persnickety contend that the 1040 form doesn’t display a valid control number from the Office of Management and Budget, as addressed in the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995, and thus the income tax is invalid.
Factually, that's error. Proponents of the Paperwork Reduction Act do not use the argument to suggest the income tax is invalid, or even that filing a Form 1040 is not required. The Paperwork Reduction Act does not extend to the tax itself but the imposition of penalties.

I will admit that some proponents have attempted to extend the argument to the tax.

The protection raised by the PRA lies at 44 U.S.C. § 3512 and the concept of being valid.

Government agents, attorneys and apologists fail to note the differences in language and requirements between the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980 and the Act of 1995.

Specifically, the requirements were expanded from 44 U.S.C. § 3504(c)(3) (1980):
(c) The information collection request clearance and other paperwork control functions of the Director shall include—

(3) ensuring that all information collection requests—
(A) are inventoried, display a control number and, when appropriate, an expiration date;
(B) indicate the request is in accordance with the clearance requirements of section 3507; and
(C) contain a statement to inform the person receiving the request why the information is being collection, how it is to be used, and whether responses to the request are voluntary, required to obtain a benefit, or mandatory;
The IRS has never complied with 44 U.S.C. § 3504(c)(3)(B) (1980).

No statement indicating the information collection request known as Form 1040 is in compliance with the clearance requirements of section 3507 has ever appeared anywhere, on the form, in the instructions or even on a website controlled by the IRS or OMB.

To, 44 U.S.C. § 3506(c)(1)(B) (1995):
(c) With respect to the collection of information and the control of paperwork, each agency shall—
(1) establish a process within the office headed by the Chief Information Officer designated under subsection (a), that is sufficiently independent of program responsibility to evaluate fairly whether proposed collections of information should be approved under this subchapter, to—

(B) ensure that each information collection—
(i) is inventoried, displays a control number and, if appropriate, an expiration date;
(ii) indicates the collection is in accordance with the clearance requirements of section 3507; and
(iii) informs the person receiving the collection of information of—
(I) the reasons the information is being collected;
(II) the way such information is to be used;
(III) an estimate, to the extent practicable, of the burden of the collection;
(IV) whether responses to the collection of information are voluntary, required to obtain a benefit, or mandatory; and
(V) the fact that an agency may not conduct or sponsor, and a person is not required to respond to, a collection of information unless it displays a valid control number;
Again, the IRS has never complied with 44 U.S.C. § 3506(c)(1)(B)(ii) (1995).

And, notice the addition of several other requirements, specific to "each" information collection, which our earlier discussion indicated were "interpreted" by the Director of OMB in regulatory commands promulgated at 5 CFR 1320.8(b)(3), (c)(1) and 1320.9(g).

The IRS certifies its compliance on Form OMB 83-I, Sec. 19 but never truly complies.

And, the protection at 44 U.S.C. § 3512 (1980) was expanded from:
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person shall be subject to any penalty for failing to maintain or provide information to any agency if the information collection request involved was made after December 31, 1981, and does not display a current control number assigned by the Director, or fails to state that such request is not subject to this chapter.
To, 44 U.S.C. § 3512 (1995):
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person shall be subject to any penalty for failing to comply with a collection of information that is subject to this subchapter if—
(1) the collection of information does not display a valid control number assigned by the Director in accordance with this subchapter; or
(2) the agency fails to inform the person who is to respond to the collection of information that such person is not required to respond to the collection of information unless it displays a valid control number.
(b) The protection provided by this section may be raised in the form of a complete defense, bar, or otherwise at any time during the agency administrative process or judicial action applicable thereto.
Notice the difference between, "failing to maintain or provide information" and "failing to comply," and the difference between, "current control number" and "valid control number."

Notice also the words, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law," which the D.C. Circuit in Saco River Cellular, Inc. v. FCC, found at 30, "supercede[s] all other laws."

Perhaps, that's why the "interpretation" of Paperwork Reduction Act requirements by the FCC is different than the "interpretation" by Treasury, as seen previously in Form 1068A.

Government agents, attorneys and apologists want to suggest the mandatory disclosures are satisfied "by making these disclosures in the instruction booklet associated with Form 1040," which indeed is the conclusion of Lewis v. Commissioner, 10th Cir. at 10.

However, no statement is ever made that the collection is in accordance with the clearance requirements at section 3507, or that OMB # 1545-0074 is valid, pursuant to section 3512.

Remember the words, "it" and "each," in relation to the information collection request.

The importance of the Lewis decision lies in the fact that Form 1040 satisfies PRA requirements only by making the disclosures in an instruction book, leaving the conclusion, that Form 1040 without the instructions does not satisfy PRA requirements.

Government agents, attorneys and apologists want to rely upon whether Form 1040 displays a "currently approved" OMB control number and fail to distinguish the differences between the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980 and the Act of 1995, and the concept of being "valid."

Thus endeth my Saturday midday PRA rant, and thus endeth my perusal of this forum.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by wserra »

ASITStands wrote:Be that as it may, a math error remains no reason to dismiss with prejudice, in my opinion.
I seem to remember addressing that exact point.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Famspear »

At Dan's Tax Protester Dossier for Lawrence, I have just added the following detail on the further defeat of the PRA defense in the Lawrence case.
The PRA defense suffered still another blow when Lawrence made the mistake of raising the argument in an appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. The purpose of his appeal was to try to obtain a reversal of the trial court's refusal to order the government to compensate him for the legal fees he incurred. In the appeal, Lawrence contended that the government's conduct against him had been "vexatious, frivolous, or in bad faith."

In March of 2007 the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit rejected both the PRA argument and the request for compensation. In the decision, the Court stated:

-"According to Lawrence, the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995 (PRA) required the Internal Revenue Service to display valid Office of Management and Budget (OMB) numbers on its Form 1040 [ … ]. Lawrence argues that the PRA by its terms prohibits the government from imposing a criminal penalty upon a citizen for the failure to complete a form where the information request at issue does not comply with the PRA. Lawrence never explains how this argument is even relevant to the three counts involving tax evasion, but even as to the other three counts, it must fail [ … ] Lawrence's brief represents an attempt to prove that the PRA could present a valid defense to the criminal charges. Yet Lawrence conceded at oral argument that no case from this circuit establishes such a proposition, and in fact Lawrence cites no caselaw from any jurisdiction that so holds. In contrast, the government referenced numerous cases supporting its position that the PRA does not present a defense to a criminal action for failure to file income taxes [ … ] Lawrence provides no explanation of how government conduct can be vexatious, frivolous, or in bad faith when there is no law contrary to it."

—from page 2 of the Judgment, docket entry 39, March 26, 2007, United States v. Lawrence, No. 06-3205, United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit (italics added).
Needless to say, Mr. Lawrence should have left well enough alone, taken the dismissal of his criminal case, and gone home quietly. Instead, he simply provided another nail for the coffin of the PRA/OMB control number argument.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Famspear »

Notice the posture of Mr. Lawrence's loss at the Court of Appeals. Essentially, the Court ruled that even if the tax form had not contained a valid OMB control number, that would not have been a valid defense to the criminal charge against Mr. Lawrence.
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Weston White

Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Weston White »

Assuming arguendo that you are correct, who cares?
So I guess the only question left is, why are you even posting here?
Again, who cares? Form 1040 is not a "regulation." And the Treasury regulations that prescribe the use of Form 1040 are valid.
The use of and authority for the 1040 does though… guess what no legal authority, no legal application. Actually, just to note, there are no statutes that prescribe the 1040, such as there is for the W-2 and W-4.
No. This does not expose the "truth"; the "truth" in which you believe, Weston, does not exist. You have simply copied this from tax protester web sites. I've seen it all before. The sure sign is the reference to "Title 27." I've seen it a million times.
Oh yes, what a truly convincing reply. What to do, what to do.
Tell that to Irwin Schiff, Larken Rose, Richard Simkanin, Bonita Lynne Meredith, Edward Lewis Brown, Elaine Brown, etc. And regarding people who managed to stay out of jail but whose tax problems continued, tell it to Tommy Cryer, Vernice Kuglin, etc.

No, Weston, you do not believe that the IRC is "noting [sic] but a paper tiger." We're not buying it. You are whistling past the graveyard. You are blowing smoke.
You presume to tell me what I believe? So that must make it true then, right? As it has been stated in the past, just because you say it don’t make it so!

Paper lions, paper tigers, paper bears! Oh my!
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Weston White »

... I paid $1300 for preperation this year ...
And yet you consider yourself to be a free American I presume? For alot of Americans that is about 12th of their annual revenue.

BTW, actually, “Preparation” – My God that is absolutely empowering, now I see why all of you are so obsessed with “[sic]”. :D
Weston White

Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Weston White »

At Dan's Tax Protester Dossier for Lawrence, I have just added the following detail on the further defeat of the PRA defense in the Lawrence case.
Be sure to include Springers case as well... oh right you can't because the case was sealed... (IIRC)
Weston White

Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Weston White »

When I asked for the type of "lawsuit" you were contemplating, I didn't mean "Make one up". I meant cite law that permits you to sue your employer for (I think) withholding. After all, I can tell my neighbor that the color he painted his house disturbs the wa of my household and that, unless he changes it, I will sue. That doesn't mean the suit would get anywhere except sanctioned. So: what authority permits you to sue your employer for insisting on obeying the law and withholding from your salary?
As to your entire post, are you stating that it is not common for states to have enacted laws either civil or criminal for such aforementioned violations?

If one takes a portion of ones money they agreed to pay you for doing something and turns it over to another party, absent of a court order and without your consent, what is that called? I am sure you already know the answer.

That matter is not withholding, it is withholding without any legal requirement to do so in the first place… everything is mere presumption.

Think about this, if the income tax was implanted in 1913, why was the Victory Tax created in 1942 (and then a few years later the Current Tax Payment Act of 1943, with the Victory Tax being repealed in 1944)?
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by wserra »

Weston White wrote:As to your entire post, are you stating that it is not common for states to have enacted laws either civil or criminal for such aforementioned violations?
Not only is it not common, there are no laws at all which make employers liable for withholding. I note that, despite repeated requests, you don't cite any laws making withholding either unlawful or actionable.
If one takes a portion of ones money they agreed to pay you for doing something and turns it over to another party, absent of a court order and without your consent, what is that called? I am sure you already know the answer.
I certainly do. If "one" is an employer, and the "portion of one's money" involved consists of withheld income taxes, and the "other party" to whom it is turned over is the U.S. Treasury, then it's called "withholding", and is not only permitted by required by 26 USC 3402(a). Moreover, I note that, despite repeated requests, you don't cite any laws making withholding either unlawful or actionable.
That matter is not withholding, it is withholding without any legal requirement to do so in the first place… everything is mere presumption.
Here's a link to a free copy of 26 USC 3402. It's a lengthy statute, and the word "presumption" doesn't appear in it once. Sure reads like a "legal requirement". And 26 USC 3403 is short and sweet: "The employer shall be liable for the payment of the tax required to be deducted and withheld under this chapter, and shall not be liable to any person for the amount of any such payment." (Emphasis supplied.) I guess we now understand why, despite repeated requests, you don't cite any laws making withholding either unlawful or actionable.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by jg »

Weston White wrote:Actually, just to note, there are no statutes that prescribe the 1040, such as there is for the W-2 and W-4.
The statutes give the authority for the Secretary of Treasury (or his delegate) to prescribe regulations as to the required forms and the regulations do prescribe the use of Form 1040 (or 1040A).

Title 26 § 6011(a) General requirement of return, statement, or list.
(a) General rule. When required by regulations prescribed by the Secretary any person made liable for any tax imposed by this title, or for the collection thereof, shall make a return or statement according to the forms and regulations prescribed by the Secretary. Every person required to make a return or statement shall include therein the information required by such forms or regulations.
See CFR § 1.6012-1 Individuals required to make returns of income.
(6) Form of return. Form 1040 is prescribed for general use in making the return required under this paragraph. Form 1040A is an optional short form which, in accordance with paragraph (a)(7) of this section, may be used by certain taxpayers. A taxpayer otherwise entitled to use Form 1040A as his return for any taxable year may not make his return on such form if he elects not to take the standard deduction provided in section 141, and in such case he must make his return on Form 1040. For taxable years beginning before January 1, 1970, a taxpayer entitled under section 6014 and §1.6014–1 to elect not to show his tax on his return must, if he desires to exercise such election, make his return on Form 1040A. Form 1040W is an optional short form which, in accordance with paragraph (a)(8) of this section, may be used only with respect to taxable years beginning after December 31, 1958, and ending before December 31, 1961.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Judge Roy Bean »

Weston White wrote:....

If one takes a portion of ones money they agreed to pay you for doing something and turns it over to another party, absent of a court order and without your consent, what is that called? I am sure you already know the answer.
Weston - you're again confused about the requirement for a court order.
Weston White wrote:That matter is not withholding, it is withholding without any legal requirement to do so in the first place… everything is mere presumption.
Here's where you go off into lala land. Multiple rulings from multiple courts preclude your argument that "everything is mere presumption." Millions of entities, public and private have determined what their employee tax status is based upon VALID reading of the law by persons who have credentials to make such determinations.

And you can argue all you want about your qualifications but until you pass an authoritative test and demonstrate proficiency I'm not going to sign off on your alleged knowledge and skill set - and not just because of the regs - because I may think you're a danger to yourself and others.
Weston White wrote:Think about this, if the income tax was implanted in 1913, why was the Victory Tax created in 1942 (and then a few years later the Current Tax Payment Act of 1943, with the Victory Tax being repealed in 1944)?
Not sure what "implanted" means (maybe "implemented"?) but politicians do things for any number of reasons.
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Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Gregg »

Weston White wrote:
... I paid $1300 for preperation this year ...
And yet you consider yourself to be a free American I presume? For alot of Americans that is about 12th of their annual revenue.

BTW, actually, “Preparation” – My God that is absolutely empowering, now I see why all of you are so obsessed with “[sic]”. :D

For some it may be a 12th of their income, (it's a few hours of mine) and for those people it would not be a good idea to pay what I paid. I doubt people making that kind of money have as involved a tax situation as I do. People making that kind of money almost always can fill out a 1040EZ and be done with it, and at that income level I know several places that will give them free tax assistance (Xavier University's accounting students do it every year free to all comers, I think).

And yes I consider myself a free American, there's damn few places in the world where a poor kid from Greenup County Kentucky can use a little hard work, luck and a good idea to get the kind of lifestyle I enjoy, and have as his biggest complaint that he paid the equivalent of a few hours wages to have his taxes prepared. Hell, even if I don't save a dime by having them done for me (and I could do them myself, I have passed the CPA exam afterall), it's worth it to me not to have to bother with them beyond packing up a folder of documents and a CD of data and mailing the forms when I get them back.

Now think a minute about that. I studied the system, I passed the test, I make the kind of money that if CTC was a valid idea I'd save tens of thousands of dollars, in a few years I paid over $100,000 of tax total. I have half a dozen sets of initials after my name and 5 diplomas on the wall, all of them in business, accounting and economics. So if the idea was valid, why wouldn't I do it, or Dan, or any number of other people who have both the money to make it lucrative and the expertise to know the "truth" as crackheads call it. Could it be because I looked at it for as long as it deserved to be looked at (nanoseconds) and decided that it was perhaps a better idea to go ahead and let the ebil guv'ment more than most people make in a year, every year, than to follow the law as those idiots and greedy scammers like Pete and his followers say it is.
Supreme Commander of The Imperial Illuminati Air Force
Your concern is duly noted, filed, folded, stamped, sealed with wax and affixed with a thumbprint in red ink, forgotten, recalled, considered, reconsidered, appealed, denied and quietly ignored.
Weston White

Re: the "W-O (private)" form

Post by Weston White »

Weston - you're again confused about the requirement for a court order.
Not at all, due process my friend, due process. The IRS is not some exception. All other agencies and departments are required to produce one prior to the seizing of property.
Here's where you go off into lala land. Multiple rulings from multiple courts preclude your argument that "everything is mere presumption." Millions of entities, public and private have determined what their employee tax status is based upon VALID reading of the law by persons who have credentials to make such determinations.
No, not really. Because it is all based in FRAUD. That makes it against the law, in these amounts they are felonies.
And you can argue all you want about your qualifications but until you pass an authoritative test and demonstrate proficiency I'm not going to sign off on your alleged knowledge and skill set - and not just because of the regs - because I may think you're a danger to yourself and others.
I have every right to interpret the law on my own; I do not have to pay a shark to do it for me.
Not sure what "implanted" means (maybe "implemented"?) but politicians do things for any number of reasons.
Geez, can none of you figure out or surmise when somebody meant to use one word and typed another instead? Where I come form that is called common sense. Though for you all it seems as if you have a great struggle trying to figure out what was really suppose to have been written there, why is that, exactly?

Nice, that you could not actually answer it though. Why is that exactly? Oh that is right I already know why… it has to do with implicating yourself with outright FRAUD.