Capitation Taxes - Redux

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Weston White

Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Weston White »

Alright two times now, people have posted threads after they have been locked, when a thread has been locked no longer post, savvy people? See this is why you do not issue moderator powers to all users... well to users that support the contentions of the site anyways, though excludes all other users... biased.

No. No federal court has ever ruled that this is definition of a capitation. Nowhere in the text of the Constitution is the term "capitation" or "capitation tax" defined this way.
Yes they have, you just need to be willing to actually read what the case is saying, in most cases not outright, but in light and in consideration of the meaning and intention of the various classes of tax in respects to taxation (e.g. negative pregnant). As well there was no need for them to define the word capitation tax, because it was common knowledge what it meant, there was no confusion about that, not like there is in the present. As well numerous legal definitions define capitation tax as I have described it to you.
No. No federal court has ever ruled that "indirect taxation" is limited to taxes upon engagements or activities using revenue, stock, capital or property as the basis for engaging in such activities. Many or even most of the taxable events on which indirect taxes are imposed do involve "activity", but there is no constitutional requirement for an "activity".
Yes they have, that it was is meant by "indirect". Indirect taxes can't be forced upon the people except through their own willingness to engage in the taxable activity itself, unlike "direct" taxes which can.
That is probably incorrect. However, the federal income tax is not precisely a tax on the "act of laboring" anyway.
I take it you are now half-way at least admitting that there is some truth to what I have been stating. Though in taxing the labor or the result of the labor, which is to say the revenue, remuneration, pay, or compensation is the same thing. Remember SCOTUS has stated taxing the shadow is the same as taxing the source of the shadow itself. Otherwise Congress could simplycircumvent the spirit of U.S. Constitution at their leisure.
By the way, a "capitation" is a kind of "direct tax."
No, every case, when referring to capitation taxes, references such taxes aside from 'direct taxes', it would be more correct to state capitation taxes are a kind or a class of direction taxation or exist within the category of direct taxes, such as are 'poll-taxes', 'personal taxes', and 'direct taxes'. Which is what I have been stating all along, if you would just stop and listen.
Now, Weston, look for an actual federal court ruling that contradicts this statement: "Since the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment it is immaterial, with respect to income taxes, whether the tax is a direct or an indirect tax."
I entirely agree with your assertion, though income taxes are not the appropriate class of tax in consideration of taxing ones laboring or their accumulated earnings from such. This also dovetails with the principles of double taxation.

The Corporation Tax Law of 1909, having been enacted before the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment, was not in any proper sense an income tax law; but was an excise tax upon the conduct of business in a corporate capacity measured by the income, with certain qualifications prescribed by the act itself.
...
Income may be defined as the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined.
Stratton's Independence, Ltd. v. Howbert, 231 U.S. 399 (1913)


Below are several cases confirming my contentions:

Must diversity of opinion has always prevailed upon the question what are direct taxes? Attempts to answer it by reference to the definitions of political economists have been frequently made, but without satisfactory results. The enumeration of the different kinds of taxes which Congress was authorized to impose was probably made with very little reference to their speculations. The great work of Adam Smith, the first comprehensive treatise on political economy in the English language, had then been recently published, but in this work, though there are passages which refer to the characteristic difference between direct and indirect taxation, there is nothing which affords any valuable light on the use of the words "direct taxes" in the Constitution.
Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 8Wall. 533 533 (1869)

All taxes on expenses or consumption are indirect taxes. A tax on carriages is of this kind, and of course is not a direct tax. Indirect taxes are circuitous modes of reaching the revenue of individuals, who generally live according to their income. In many cases of this nature the individual may be said to tax himself. I shall close the discourse with reading a passage or two from Smith's Wealth of Nations.

"The impossibility of taxing people in proportion to their revenue by any capitation seems to have given occasion to the invention of taxes upon consumable commodities; the state, not knowing how to tax directly and proportionally the revenue of its subjects, endeavors to tax it indirectly by taxing their expense, which it is supposed in most cases will be neatly in proportion to their revenue. Their expense is taxed by taxing the consumable commodities upon which it is laid out."

"Consumable commodities, whether necessaries or luxuries, may be taxed in two different ways: the consumer may either pay an annual sum on account of his using or consuming goods of a certain kind or the goods may be taxed while they remain in the hands of the dealer, and before they are delivered to the consumer. The consumable goods, which last a considerable time before they are consumed altogether, are most properly taxed in the one way, those of which the consumption is immediate or more speedy in the other; the coach tax and plate tax are examples of the former method of imposing; the greater part of the other duties of excise and customs of the latter."
Hylton v. United States, 3 U.S. 3 Dall. 171 171 (1796)

In 75 U. S. 543, 75 U. S. 544, 75 U. S. 546, the principal question was whether a tax on state bank notes issued for circulation was a direct tax. On behalf of the bank, it was contended by distinguished counsel that the tax was a direct one, and that it was. Invalid because not apportioned among the States agreeably to the Constitution. In explanation of the nature of direct taxes, they relied largely (so the authorized report of the case states) on the writings of Adam Smith and on other treatises, English and American, on political economy. In the discussion of the case, reference was made by counsel to the former decisions in Hylton v. United States and Pacific Ins. Co. v. Soule. Chief Justice Chase, delivering the judgment of the court, after observing (as I have already stated) that the works of political economists gave no valuable light on the question as to what, in the constitutional@ sense, were direct taxes, entered upon an examination of the numerous acts of Congress imposing taxes. That examination, he announced on behalf of this court, showed
Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Company, 158 U.S. 601 (1895)

But Albert Gallatin, in his "Sketch of the Finances of the United States," published in November, 1796, said:

"The most generally received opinion, however, is that, by direct taxes in the Constitution, those are meant which are raised on the capital or revenue of the people; by indirect, such as are raised on their expense. As that opinion is, in itself, rational and conformable to the decision which has taken place on the subject of the carriage tax, and as it appears important, for the sake of preventing future controversies, which may be not more fatal to the revenue than to the tranquility of the Union, that a fixed interpretation should be generally adopted, it will not be improper to corroborate it by quoting the author from whom the idea seems to have been borrowed."

He then quotes from Smith's Wealth of Nations, and continues:

"The remarkable coincidence of the clause of the Constitution with this passage in using the word 'capitation' as a generic expression, including the different species of direct taxes, an acceptation of the word peculiar, it is believed, to Dr. Smith, leaves little doubt that the framers of the one had the other in view at the time, and that they, as well as he, by direct taxes, meant those paid directly from, and falling immediately on, the revenue, and, by indirect, those which are paid indirectly out of the revenue by falling immediately upon the expense."

In the debates in the House of Representatives preceding the passage of the act of Congress to lay "duties upon carriages for the conveyance of persons," approved June 5, 1794 (1 Stat. 373, c. 45), Mr. Sedgwick said that "a capitation tax, and taxes on land and on property and income generally were direct charges, as well in the immediate as ultimate sources of contribution. He had considered those, and those only, as direct taxes in their operation and effects. On the other hand, a tax imposed on a specific article of personal property, and particularly if objects of luxury, as in the case under consideration, he had never supposed had been considered a direct tax within the meaning of the Constitution."

Mr. Dexter observed that his colleague "had stated the meaning of direct taxes to be a capitation tax, or a general tax on all the taxable property of the citizens, and that a gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Nicholas) thought the meaning was that all taxes are direct which are paid by the citizen without being recompensed by the consumer; but that, where the tax was only advanced and repaid by the consumer, the tax was indirect. He thought that both opinions were just, and not inconsistent, though the gentlemen had differed about them. He thought that a general tax on all taxable property was a direct tax, because it was paid without being recompensed by the consumer."

Black, writing on Constitutional Law, says:

"But the chief difficulty has arisen in determining what is the difference between direct taxes and such as are indirect. In general usage, and according to the terminology of political economy, a direct tax is one which is levied upon the person who is to pay it, or upon his land or personalty, or his business or income, as the case may be. An indirect tax is one assessed upon the manufacturer or dealer in the particular commodity, and paid by him, but which really falls upon the consumer, since it is added to the market price of the commodity which he must pay. But the course of judicial decision has determined that the term 'direct,' as here applied to taxes, is to be taken in a more restricted sense. The Supreme Court has ruled that only land taxes and capitation taxes are 'direct,' and no others. In 1794, Congress levied a tax of ten dollars on all carriages kept for use, and it was held that this was not a direct tax. And so also an income tax is not to be considered direct. Neither is a tax on the circulation of state banks, nor a succession tax, imposed upon every 'devolution of title to real estate.'"

If there were left a doubt as to what this established construction is, it seems to be entirely removed by the case of Springer v. United States, 102 U. S. 86, 102 U. S. 602. Springer was assessed for an income tax on his professional earnings and on the interest on United States bonds.

"Our conclusions are that direct taxes, within the meaning of the Constitution, are only capitation taxes, as expressed in that instrument, and taxes on real estate, and that the tax of which the plaintiff in error complained is within the category of an excise or duty."
Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co., 157 U.S. 429 (1895)

The views expressed in this case are adopted by Chancellor Kent and Justice Story in their examination of the subject. [Footnote 9]

Duties are defined by Tomlin to be things due and recoverable by law. The term, in its widest signification, is hardly less comprehensive than "taxes." It is applied, in its most restricted meaning, to customs; and in that sense is nearly the synonym of "imposts." [Footnote 10]

Impost is a duty on imported goods and merchandise. In a larger sense, it is any tax or imposition. [Footnote 11]

Cowell says it is distinguished from custom, "because custom is rather the profit which the prince makes on goods shipped out." [Footnote 12]

Mr. Madison considered the terms "duties" and "imposts" in these clauses as synonymous. [Footnote 13]

Judge Tucker thought "they were probably intended to comprehend every species of tax or contribution not included under the ordinary terms, taxes and excises.'"

Excise is defined to be an inland imposition, sometimes upon the consumption of the commodity, and sometimes upon the retail sale; sometimes upon the manufacturer, and sometimes upon the vendor. [Footnote 14]
Pacific Insurance Company v. Soule, 74 U.S. 7 Wall. 433 433 (1868)

… The construction always given to Article 1, indicates that the only taxes which the Constitution regards as direct taxes, are capitation taxes and taxes imposed immediately on land, and which are capable of apportionment without producing any inequality or injustice. 15

The term seems to have been derived from the Roman law, which recognized two kinds of direct taxes; a capitation tax (capitis tributum) and a land tax (agri tributum). Italy and privileged towns, which were exempted from these taxes, paid a tax of five per cent. on all testamentary successions (vicesima hereditatum), and on manumitted slaves, which together with customs and excises, seems to have been first imposed in the time of Augustus. 16

Indirect taxes, such as duties of impost and excises and every other description of the same, must be uniform, and direct taxes must be laid in proportion to the census or enumeration as remodelled in the fourteenth amendment. Taxes on lands, houses, and other permanent real estate have always been deemed to be direct taxes, and capitation taxes, by the express words of the Constitution, are within the same category, but it never has been decided that any other legal exactions for the support of the Federal government fall within the condition that unless laid in proportion to numbers that the assessment is invalid. 24

Whether direct taxes in the sense of the Constitution comprehend any other tax than a capitation tax and a tax on land is a question not absolutely decided, nor is it necessary to determine it in the present case, as it is expressly decided that the term does not include the tax on income, [90 U.S. 331, 348] w ich cannot be distinguished in principle from a succession tax such as the one involved in the present controversy. 25

Neither duties nor excises were regarded as direct taxes by the authors of the Federalist. Objection was made to the power to impose such taxes, and in answering that objection Mr. Hamilton said that the proportion of these taxes is not to be left to the discretion of the national legislature, but it is to be determined by the numbers of each State, as described in the second section of the first article. An actual census or enumeration of the people must furnish the rule, a circumstance which shuts the door to partiality or oppression. In addition to the precaution just mentioned, said he, there is a provision that all duties of imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States. 26

Exactions for the support of the government may assume the form of duties, imposts, or excises, or they may also assume the form of license fees for permission to carry on particular occupations or to enjoy special franchises, or they may be specific in form, as when levied upon corporations in reference to the amount of capital stock or to the business done or profits earned by the individual or corporation. 27
SCHOLEY v. REW, 90 U.S. 331 (1874)
.
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by . »

Our current village idiot wrote:Alright two times now, people have posted threads after they have been locked, when a thread has been locked no longer post, savvy people?
Never mind that this gibberish "sentence" is just more of his usual, he seems not to be able to decipher the simple proposition that when approximately 100 responses to a thread have been accumulated the thread is locked.

Whereupon a new thread can be started. As the lastest, but not greatest exemplar of village idiocy has just done.

Get it yet, Weston?

The only thing about your garbage worth commenting on is your incredible denseness and astounding idiocy. The rest of your laughable crapola has already been decimated somewhere between 10 and 20 times over.

You're boring, dude. Not even up to the pitiful, delusional TP standard of, say, Van Pelt. Please live up to your promise to go away.
All the States incorporated daughter corporations for transaction of business in the 1960s or so. - Some voice in Van Pelt's head, circa 2006.
Weston White

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Weston White »

What are you even talking about? Your posts makes absolutely no sense at all. Since you have nothing of value to contribute, beat it whack-job.
.
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by . »

Well, Weston, lest you think that I'm uncharitable, I just want you to know that while I think you're a blithering idiot I hope that you have a very enjoyable stay in some federal prison.

Something that will very probably be a part of your bleak future if you persist in your idiocy, ala Uncle Irwin and Brown family: morons and Dicky Simkanin and Al Thompson and Lynn Meredith. I could go on, but I don't suspect that it would do any good.

BTW, Weston, contrary to one of your many delusions, I, like most here do not work for the IRS and never have. In fact, I, like many here have little of no faith in the feds to do much of anything right. I don't hate the government, but I do harbor an extreme dislike for most of what it does.

One difference between us is that I don't think that my low opinion of the efficacy of government changes the legalities or legitimacy of the current tax system.

You, on the other hand have blinded yourself to all reason and will probably find yourself in a heap of hurt as a result.
All the States incorporated daughter corporations for transaction of business in the 1960s or so. - Some voice in Van Pelt's head, circa 2006.
Paul

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Paul »

Below are several cases confirming my contentions:

Must diversity of opinion has always prevailed upon the question what are direct taxes? Attempts to answer it by reference to the definitions of political economists have been frequently made, but without satisfactory results. The enumeration of the different kinds of taxes which Congress was authorized to impose was probably made with very little reference to their speculations. The great work of Adam Smith, the first comprehensive treatise on political economy in the English language, had then been recently published, but in this work, though there are passages which refer to the characteristic difference between direct and indirect taxation, there is nothing which affords any valuable light on the use of the words "direct taxes" in the Constitution.
Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 8Wall. 533 533 (1869)
So, right off the bat, he cites a case that says his contention that Adam Smith's views enlighten the contstitutional issue is wrong. He even underlines the words that say his contention is nonsense. I guess "confirming" means something different in his world, just like "income" and "wages" and "service."
All taxes on expenses or consumption are indirect taxes. A tax on carriages is of this kind, and of course is not a direct tax. Indirect taxes are circuitous modes of reaching the revenue of individuals, who generally live according to their income. In many cases of this nature the individual may be said to tax himself. I shall close the discourse with reading a passage or two from Smith's Wealth of Nations.
So a tax that reades income directly rather than circuitously is a direct tax? Which, under the constitution means only that it must be apportioned -- there is no other limit on Congress' power to impose a direct tax. Except that, when the tax is on income, the 16th Amendment removes the apportionment requirement. Shot yourself in the foot again.

Chief Justice Chase, delivering the judgment of the court, after observing (as I have already stated) that the works of political economists gave no valuable light on the question as to what, in the constitutional@ sense, were direct taxes, entered upon an examination of the numerous acts of Congress imposing taxes.
This is too easy, and getting boring. Someone else want to play with the village idiot for a while?
Famspear
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Famspear »

Famspear wrote:
No. No federal court has ever ruled that this is definition of a capitation. Nowhere in the text of the Constitution is the term "capitation" or "capitation tax" defined this way.
Weston White wrote:
Yes they have, you just need to be willing to actually read what the case is saying, in most cases not outright, but in light and in consideration of the meaning and intention of the various classes of tax in respects to taxation (e.g. negative pregnant).
:roll:
Good grief.

Weston continues:
As well there was no need for them to define the word capitation tax, because it was common knowledge what it meant, there was no confusion about that, not like there is in the present. As well numerous legal definitions define capitation tax as I have described it to you.
8)
Thanks for clearing that up (snicker).

Famspear wrote:
No. No federal court has ever ruled that "indirect taxation" is limited to taxes upon engagements or activities using revenue, stock, capital or property as the basis for engaging in such activities. Many or even most of the taxable events on which indirect taxes are imposed do involve "activity", but there is no constitutional requirement for an "activity".
Weston wrote:
Yes they have, that it was is meant by "indirect". Indirect taxes can't be forced upon the people except through their own willingness to engage in the taxable activity itself, unlike "direct" taxes which can.
Why do I get the impression that this will never get any better?

Famspear wrote:
That is probably incorrect. However, the federal income tax is not precisely a tax on the "act of laboring" anyway.
Weston wrote:
I take it you are now half-way at least admitting that there is some truth to what I have been stating.
Nope. Not gonna get any better......

Weston wrote:
Though in taxing the labor or the result of the labor, which is to say the revenue, remuneration, pay, or compensation is the same thing. Remember SCOTUS has stated taxing the shadow is the same as taxing the source of the shadow itself. Otherwise Congress could simplycircumvent the spirit of U.S. Constitution at their leisure.
I hear the weather is nice on Planet Weston this time of year. Too bad we can't visit there.

Famspear wrote:
By the way, a "capitation" is a kind of "direct tax."
Weston wrote:
No, every case, when referring to capitation taxes, references such taxes aside from 'direct taxes', it would be more correct to state capitation taxes are a kind or a class of direction taxation or exist within the category of direct taxes [ . . . . .]
Were you dropped on your head, Weston?

Famspear wrote:
Now, Weston, look for an actual federal court ruling that contradicts this statement: "Since the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment it is immaterial, with respect to income taxes, whether the tax is a direct or an indirect tax."
Weston wrote:
I entirely agree with your assertion, though income taxes are not the appropriate class of tax in consideration of taxing ones laboring or their accumulated earnings from such. This also dovetails with the principles of double taxation.
Weston, the fact that legal study is not something to which you are suited does not mean that there might not be something else you'd be good at. Seek ye, and ye shall find.

Weston, what we are instructing you to do is to look for court rulings[/i]. Citing excerpts from court cases in the way that you did has not accomplished the implied goal of finding such rulings. Quoting verbiage from a text and then arguing that it means something other than what the court actually ruled does not work; it's not proper legal analysis.

You continue to run around in circles - ineffectually.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Famspear
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Famspear »

PS: Weston, the reason the prior thread included a posting (specifically, my posting) after the thread was closed was that I was already working on that posting when the Captain shut down the thread. I didn't know the thread had been locked until I hit my button to send my own post.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Weston White

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Weston White »

So, right off the bat, he cites a case that says his contention that Adam Smith's views enlighten the contstitutional issue is wrong. He even underlines the words that say his contention is nonsense. I guess "confirming" means something different in his world, just like "income" and "wages" and "service."
I take it meant constitutional? And WRONG, a direct tax is not a capitation tax, even though they both within the category of direct taxation.

AI,S9,C4
“No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”
Got it? laff
So a tax that reades income directly rather than circuitously is a direct tax? Which, under the constitution means only that it must be apportioned -- there is no other limit on Congress' power to impose a direct tax. Except that, when the tax is on income, the 16th Amendment removes the apportionment requirement. Shot yourself in the foot again.
I take it you meant reads? And not at all the income tax is not a capitation tax, the income tax is an entirely different class of tax.
This is too easy, and getting boring. Someone else want to play with the village idiot for a while?
Yup, this applies to the use of the term ‘direct taxes’ and ‘other direct taxes’, this has nothing to do with capitation taxes.
Famspear
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Famspear »

Weston White wrote:
So, right off the bat, he cites a case that says his contention that Adam Smith's views enlighten the contstitutional issue is wrong. He even underlines the words that say his contention is nonsense. I guess "confirming" means something different in his world, just like "income" and "wages" and "service."
I take it meant constitutional? And WRONG, a direct tax is not a capitation tax, even though they both within the category of direct taxation.

AI,S9,C4
“No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”
Got it? laff
So a tax that reades income directly rather than circuitously is a direct tax? Which, under the constitution means only that it must be apportioned -- there is no other limit on Congress' power to impose a direct tax. Except that, when the tax is on income, the 16th Amendment removes the apportionment requirement. Shot yourself in the foot again.
I take it you meant reads? And not at all the income tax is not a capitation tax, the income tax is an entirely different class of tax.
This is too easy, and getting boring. Someone else want to play with the village idiot for a while?
Yup, this applies to the use of the term ‘direct taxes’ and ‘other direct taxes’, this has nothing to do with capitation taxes.
Weston, I get the impression that maybe you do this just because you like the feel of your fingers on the keyboard.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Demosthenes
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Demosthenes »

Weston, I get the impression that maybe you do this just because you like the feel of your fingers on the keyboard.
Good definition of trolling.
Demo.
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Joey Smith »

Well, gosh, then Weston you can file your challenge to the entire income tax system based on your *unique idea*.

So, quit wasting your time here, just pay your taxes for one year and file your refund lawsuit, and that will get you smack-dab in front on a federal judge who will hear your case. After that, there is the Court of Appeals and even the U.S. Supreme Court itself.

Yessir, no need for you to waste your time here on this board yakkin' with us when you've got a lawsuit to prepare!
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Weston White

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Weston White »

Man alive! Eight replies and not a single worthy response! W00t :lol:
jkeeb
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by jkeeb »

See this is why you do not issue moderator powers to all users... well to users that support the contentions of the site anyways, though excludes all other users... biased.
This from a guy who had no problem at Lost Heads...at least until he was banned like many here.
Remember that CtC is about the rule of law.

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Weston White

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Weston White »

jkeeb wrote:
See this is why you do not issue moderator powers to all users... well to users that support the contentions of the site anyways, though excludes all other users... biased.
This from a guy who had no problem at Lost Heads...at least until he was banned like many here.
Yea I have never seen anything like this before, not even web development forums give this many people higher level access, clearly there is much more to the story than what you all publicly state. http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/memberlist.php?mode=leaders
Demosthenes
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Demosthenes »

Oooh, a conspiracy theory about Quatloos.

Do tell, Weston.
Demo.
Demosthenes
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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Demosthenes »

These must be those super-secret Illuminati Q leaders I keep reading about. Rumor has it, they're so powerful, they don't even have to visit the forum to control the thoughts of all who post here...

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Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by ASITStands »

Weston ....

You suggest we are ... "unable to even provide one case which addresses the issue of capitation taxes in relation to taxing ones laboring ..." though we've provided Springer.

Springer says explicitly, "The tax here in question falls within neither of these categories," having explicitly listed the categories as, "capitation or poll taxes, and taxes on lands and buildings, and general assessments" on the whole property or whole estate of individuals.

Springer also specifically lists the Act of 1798 as imposing "a tax upon real estate and a capitation tax upon slaves." The Act describes itself as a "direct tax," saying nothing about a capitation tax. The Supreme Court in Veazie Bank v. Fenno describes it as a capitation:
Direct taxes must be laid and collected by the rule of apportionment; duties, imposts, and excises must be laid and collected under the rule of uniformity.

Much diversity of opinion has always prevailed upon the question what are direct taxes? Attempts to answer it by reference to the definitions of political economists have been frequently made, but without satisfactory results. The enumeration of the different kinds of taxes which Congress was [*542] authorized to impose was probably made with very little reference to their speculations. The great work of Adam Smith, the first comprehensive treatise on political economy in the English language, had then been recently published, but in this work, though there are passages which refer to the characteristic difference between direct and indirect taxation, there is nothing which affords any valuable light on the use of the words "direct taxes" in the Constitution.

We are obliged, therefore, to resort to historical evidence and to seek the meaning of the words in the use and in the opinion of those [***16] whose relations to the government, and means of knowledge, warranted them in speaking with authority.

And considered in this light, the meaning and application of the rule as to direct taxes appears to us quite clear.

It is, as we think, distinctly shown in every act of Congress on the subject.

In each of these acts, a gross sum was laid upon the United States, and the total amount was apportioned to the several states according to their respective numbers of inhabitants, as ascertained by the last preceding census. Having been apportioned, provision was made for the imposition of the tax upon the subjects specified in the act, fixing its total sum.

In 1798, when the first direct tax was imposed, the total amount was fixed at two millions of dollars; in 1813, the amount of the second direct tax was fixed at three millions; in 1815, the amount of the third at six millions, and it was made an annual tax; in 1816, the provision making the tax annual was repealed by the repeal of the first section of the act of 1815, and the total amount was fixed for that year at three millions of dollars. No other direct tax was imposed until 1861, when a direct tax of twenty [***17] millions of dollars was laid and made annual; but the provision [*543] making it annual was suspended, and no tax except that first laid was ever apportioned. In each instance, the total sum was apportioned among the states by the constitutional rule, and was assessed at prescribed rates on the subjects of the tax. These subjects, in 1798, 1813, 1815, 1816, were lands, improvements, dwelling houses, and slaves; and in 1861 lands, improvements, and dwelling houses only. Under the act of 1798, slaves were assessed at fifty cents on each; under the other acts, according to valuation by assessors.

This review shows that personal property, contracts, occupations, and the like have never been regarded by Congress as proper subjects of direct tax. It has been supposed that slaves must be considered as an exception to this [***18] observation. But the exception is rather apparent than real. As persons, slaves were proper subjects of a capitation tax, which is described in the Constitution as a direct tax; as property, they were, by the laws of some if not most of the states, classed as real property, descendible to heirs. Under the first view, they would be subject to the tax of 1798 as a capitation tax; under the latter, they would be subject to the taxation of the other years as realty. That the latter view was that taken by the framers of the acts after 1798, becomes highly probable, when it is considered, that in the states where slaves were held, must of the value which would possessed within the land passed into the slaves. If, indeed, the land only had been valued without the slaves, the land would have been subject to much heavier proportional imposition in those states than in states where there were no slaves, for the proportion of tax imposed on each state was determined by population, without reference to the subjects on which it was to be assessed.
So, under the view of treating a tax on slaves as a capitation tax, the Act of 1798 imposed a tax on them, but under the view of treating a tax on slaves as a tax on realty, or property, framers of the acts after 1798, imposed a tax on them as property.

Question: Other than the writings of Adam Smith, your view of the capitation taxes imposed in France and Black's Law Dictionary, do you have any other authority that a capitation tax, as listed in the Constitution, was meant by the Founders to be a tax on the earnings of labor?

It seems to me that neither Congress nor the Supreme Court have agreed with that view.

In the final analysis, if you are correct, and the Courts have never dealt with the subject of a capitation in relation to the earnings of the human mind and hands, then you ought to take the advice of 'Joey Smith,' pay the tax for one year and bring your case through the Courts.

Why would you need to pay the tax? Without doing so, you are subject to the limitations of the Anti-Injunction Act, and your case would be dismissed without consideration.

Bringing a claim for refund by first paying the tax, your case is less likely to be dismissed. Otherwise, arguing with Quatloos about the meaning of a capitation will get you nowhere.

It seems to me we've have sufficiently addressed the differences between your view and ours, and it seems that continuing to beat our heads against the wall avails neither view.

You have already admitted no Court has addressed the issue of a capitation. Go for it!
Paul

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Paul »

So a tax that reades income directly rather than circuitously is a direct tax? Which, under the constitution means only that it must be apportioned -- there is no other limit on Congress' power to impose a direct tax. Except that, when the tax is on income, the 16th Amendment removes the apportionment requirement. Shot yourself in the foot again.
I take it you meant reads?
Sorry, it should have read "reaches". Now go read it again.

And the next time someone says "no court has ever said," merely coming back with "yes, they have" doesn't work. You actually have to come up with a citation and a quote. Your failure to do so is as strong as evidence of a negative can get.

And WRONG, a direct tax is not a capitation tax, even though they both within the category of direct taxation.
AI,S9,C4
“No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”
More proof of your inability to read or think. "No capitation, or other direct, tax . . ." You're right -- that doesn't mean a direct tax is a capitation, but it does mean that a capitation is a direct tax. Otherwise, the word "other" doesn't belong. So when the court said Adam Smith is useless for figuring out what is a direct tax under the constitution, it meant that you are wrong in trying to argue Adam Smith as proof of what taxes must be apportioned. It certainly doesn't "confirm" anything you've said about Adam Smith, because if your interpretation of its statement that Adam Smith doesn't help to figure out what is a "direct" tax does not apply to capitations, then it has said nothing about capitations. Saying Adam Smith is useless on one point does not mean he is helpful or correct on another.

Not even worth a laugh.
Imalawman
Enchanted Consultant of the Red Stapler
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Formerly in a cubicle by the window where I could see the squirrels, and they were married.

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by Imalawman »

Westy wrote:And WRONG, a direct tax is not a capitation tax, even though they both within the category of direct taxation.
AI,S9,C4
“No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.”
This is why I have quit arguing with him. I think he's setting a new level of ignorance here not seen in quite some time. He's embarrassing himself and doesn't even know it. As Demo says, its not fair to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
"Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down the stairs" - Unknown
agent86x

Re: Capitation Taxes - Redux

Post by agent86x »

Weston White wrote:
jkeeb wrote:
See this is why you do not issue moderator powers to all users... well to users that support the contentions of the site anyways, though excludes all other users... biased.
This from a guy who had no problem at Lost Heads...at least until he was banned like many here.
Yea I have never seen anything like this before, not even web development forums give this many people higher level access, clearly there is much more to the story than what you all publicly state. http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/memberlist.php?mode=leaders

Ohhh, I think Weston is jealous....