TP / sov citizen arrested in abortion Dr. murder case

[Famspear]

From the New York Times:

Suspect Identified in Killing of Doctor
By SUSAN SAULNY and MONICA DAVEY

[published June 1, 2009; dated June 2]

OVERLAND PARK, Kan. — From the one-story house she once shared in this Kansas City suburb with her former husband, now suspected in the death of a doctor who performed late-term abortions, Lindsey Roeder recalled on Monday how he seemed to undergo a drastic personality shift more than a decade ago.

“The man I married disappeared into this other person,” Ms. Roeder, shaken and puffy eyed, said of Scott Roeder, who was being held in a Wichita jail in the death of Dr. George R. Tiller, who was fatally shot at his Wichita church on Sunday. The authorities said charges were expected soon against Mr. Roeder.

“He wanted a scapegoat,” Ms. Roeder said. “First it was taxes — he stopped paying. Then he turned to the church and got involved in anti-abortion.”

[ . . . ]

[ . . . . ] as Mr. Roeder’s relatives and others who had come into contact with him over the years began looking backward, they said they now saw some signs that might have hinted at more serious trouble ahead. For more than 10 years, Mr. Roeder had been linked, at various times and in varying degrees, to the Freemen, a group that rejected federal authority and the banking system, and to people who believe that the killing of abortion providers was justified by the abortions it prevented.

[ . . . ]

Years earlier, Mr. Roeder belonged to a Kansas group known as the Patriot Movement, a citizens’ militia which, according to a fellow member, Morris Wilson, 70, aimed to “kick Uncle Sam in the shins” by bucking rules like mounting license plates on cars. “He didn’t like taxation and overregulation,” Mr. Wilson recalled, adding that Mr. Roeder had outspoken views against abortion.

“He was trying to get people aware of what was going on, and put these guys out of business,” he said. “But I never seen a temper.”

Mr. Roeder also encountered Dave Leach, an anti-abortion activist from Des Moines whose publication, Prayer and Action News, had received articles from Mr. Roeder. Mr. Leach said Mr. Roeder had presented strong anti-government views (he believed the government tracked money, Mr. Leach recalled, and offered his own method to “remove the magnetic strip from a five-dollar bill”) and views similar to Mr. Leach’s own on abortion. “To call this a crime is too simplistic,” Mr. Leach said of Dr. Tiller’s death.

[ . . . ]

As recently as May, Dr. Tiller reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation that wires to surveillance cameras had been cut at the clinic and that a hole had been sliced in the roof. The F.B.I. said Monday that the case was unsolved.

[ . . . . ]

In Overland Park, Ms. Roeder, a teacher, said Mr. Roeder had seemed ambivalent on matters of abortion, politics and religion when they first met and married in 1986. He had worked a steady manufacturing job at an envelope company, she said, until he seemed unable to pay the bills.

“The stress of everyday life,” she said, seemed to overwhelm him and turn him toward thoughts of not paying taxes, and other, suddenly strong views.

David Roeder, Mr. Roeder’s brother, issued a statement on behalf of the family expressing shock and sadness over Dr. Tiller’s death, and suggesting that Mr. Roeder had “suffered from mental illness at various times in his life.”

[ . . . ]

(bolding added).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/us/02 ... wt=nytimes

I could opine that Dave Leach of the "Prayer and Action News" (quoted in this story and in another story in this thread) sounds like a moral degenerate, but I guess that would be "too simplistic."

[edit: Apparently, after I posted this excerpt, The Times Changed the headline for the story to read: "Seeking Clues on Suspect in Shooting of Doctor"]

[Doktor Avalanche]

And to think there were calls for Janet Napolitano of DHS to be fired because of that report correctly identifying sovereign citizens and anti-abortion proponents as right wing extremists.

With this Roeder idiot, you got two for the price of one.

I think Janet deserves a raise.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Yeah, one thing i didn't like when i was a clinic defender was some of the chants.

Like "Operation Rescue / Just like Ceaucescue!" Refering to the romanian dictator's promotion of population growth through industrial style orphanages. I always thought that was an unfair generalization.

What i liked best was when the antis would start singing "He's Got the Whole World in his Hands", and we'd join in. That always discombobulated them.

Considering Ceaucescue outlawed abortion, forced women to be in a perpetual state of pregnancy and actually had the police come by their houses and spot-check tampons just to make sure they were in compliance.

I used to date a gal from Romania. The stories she told me about life under the Ceaucescue regime would make your hair stand up on end.

Juxtapose that with the fact that a doctor was gunned down in cold blood in a church for being a practitioner of a medical procedure legal in both the United States and the state of Kansas and I don't think the generalization is totally unfair.

[fortinbras]

Militia Watchdog has pointed out that last year Bill O'Reilly on his nightly cable show (CNN? Fox?) Referred to this doctor specifically as a "baby killer." I believe this qualifies as incitement, at least as much as that website "Nuremburg Files".

[Doktor Avalanche]

Militia Watchdog has pointed out that last year Bill O'Reilly on his nightly cable show (CNN? Fox?) Referred to this doctor specifically as a "baby killer." I believe this qualifies as incitement, at least as much as that website "Nuremburg Files".

Yes, that would be Fox.

And I also concur that this would constitute incitement. You can't go around telling people that abortion is murder, that doctors who perform abortions are murderers (or "baby killers") then step back and wash your hands of any responsibility when someone decides to take you at your word.

[.]

You can't go around telling people that abortion is murder, that doctors who perform abortions are murderers (or "baby killers")

Sure you can. It's called freedom of speech. I don't care to, but anyone who does is free to do so. Get over it.

It's clearly past time for this thread to go to Off-Topic Discussions.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Weird how you glossed over the qualifying part of that quote.

then step back and wash your hands of any responsibility when someone decides to take you at your word.

Freedom of speech does have limitations. The courts have for years upheld that it's not an absolute and that it can be curtailed.

The rest of the democratic governments in the world concur.

Especially when such speech conflicts with others values and rights. Call me fussy, but I think that also includes the right to not to get shot in church by some sovrun loony with a particular axe to grind.

No, I don't think I'm going to "get over it" at this or any other time.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Scott Roeder charged with George Tiller shooting death
BY STAN FINGER AND RON SYLVESTER
The Wichita Eagle

Scott Roeder has been charged with one count first-degree murder and two counts of aggravated assault in connection with the George Tiller shooting death.

Roeder, 51, made his first court appearance this afternoon in Sedgwick County District Court.

Wearing shackles and a red jail jumpsuit, Roeder appeared before Judge Ben Burgess from the Sedgwick County Jail via closed-circuit TV.

Roeder has requested a lawyer and has been assigned to the public defenders office.

A preliminary hearing is tentatively set for June 16.

[Judge Roy Bean]

In one of the articles, it mentions that the alleged shooter had a normal job and a normal life, but then he started having problems paying the bills.

What the articles seemed to overlook is WHY he began having problems paying his bills. Was he laid off? Did his employer slash wages? Did his costs for everything go up quicker than his salary? What?

It seems that was the catalyst, but what was the precursor.

Imagine you run a company and you have a guy like Roeder who can't keep his mouth shut for very long. Basically, he polarizes people. He's not going to get promoted because of his attitude issues. Resentments simmer and they can boil over. Along the way warnings are given, people get sent home without pay and they're among the first to be laid off or they're fired for some kind of inappropriate behavior. Others quit out of frustration. Some of them are whacked out enough to come walking back into the plant with firearms and go hunting for the people they believe are their persecutors.

I've often wondered how many of the sovrun moovment participants have repeatedly used up their unemployment benefits because they're basically a**hats at work.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Imagine you run a company and you have a guy like Roeder who can't keep his mouth shut for very long. Basically, he polarizes people. He's not going to get promoted because of his attitude issues. Resentments simmer and they can boil over. Along the way warnings are given, people get sent home without pay and they're among the first to be laid off or they're fired for some kind of inappropriate behavior. Others quit out of frustration. Some of them are whacked out enough to come walking back into the plant with firearms and go hunting for the people they believe are their persecutors.

I've often wondered how many of the sovrun moovment participants have repeatedly used up their unemployment benefits because they're basically a**hats at work.

Excellent summation. What you wrote above describes very accurately, (with the exception of "going hunting"), a person who was in our place of business about 30 minutes ago. He is the employee of a customer and was sent here to drop off some materials. He's not a "sovrun" type, or at least not a tax denier, but he is a religious extremist. He is very vocal about his opinions, is "always right", and has lost two jobs that I'm aware of for gross insubordination after numerous warnings. The guy is a very skilled tradesman; it's his attitude that cost him those jobs.

Now here's the kicker: this sh*tass found it necessary to tell me about how Tiller's murder was good, and "that we won't have to worry about that asshole killing any more babies." Fortunately I was called to the telephone and was able to avoid furthering the conversation.

I've seen comments to that effect posted on-line but I was just a little bit surprised to meet *one* in person.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Remind me never to move to your neighborhood, Mr. M.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Remind me never to move to your neighborhood, Mr. M.

I've got that on my task list. I don't live in that neighborhood any more, but my parents do.

The guy's a complete wack job and nearly completely detached from reality. Part of his screed was "just look at all the jobs the murdered babies would have and how that would help the economy". WTF?

I'm tempted to include a line on the invoice to his employer for: 45 minutes of listening to your wacked out employees nonsense.

[Doktor Avalanche]

I'm tempted to include a line on the invoice to his employer for: 45 minutes of listening to your wacked out employees nonsense.

Ma and I raised you right, son.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

I'm tempted to include a line on the invoice to his employer for: 45 minutes of listening to your wacked out employees nonsense.

Ma and I raised you right, son.

Well shucks

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Slain Kansas abortion provider's clinic to close
By ROXANA HEGEMAN, Associated Press Writer Roxana Hegeman, Associated Press Writer 50 mins ago

WICHITA, Kan. – The family of slain abortion provider George Tiller said Tuesday that his Wichita clinic will be "permanently closed," effective immediately.

In a statement released by Tiller's attorneys, his family said it is ceasing operation of Women's Health Care Services Inc. and any involvement by family members in any other similar clinic.

"We are proud of the service and courage shown by our husband and father and know that women's health care needs have been met because of his dedication and service," the family said.

Tiller was shot to death May 31 while serving as an usher at the Lutheran church in Wichita that he regularly attended. Scott Roeder is being held on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated assault in Tiller's death.

Tiller's family said it will honor his memory through private charitable activities.

Family members said they wanted to assure Tiller's previous patients that the privacy of their medical histories and patient records will remain "as fiercely protected now and in the future" as they were during Tiller's lifetime.

Dr. Warren Hern, one of the few remaining doctors in the country who performs late-term abortions, said the closure of the clinic was an "outrage" and he feels the loss for Dr. Tiller's family and the patients he served.

"How tragic, how tragic," Hern said when contacted by phone at his Boulder, Colo., clinic. "This is what they want, they've been wanting this for 35 years."

Asked whether he felt efforts should be made to keep the clinic open, he said: "This was Dr. Tiller's clinic. How much can you resist this kind of violence? What doctor, what reasonable doctor would work there? Where does it stop?"

Hern said he began receiving death threats when he opened his first outpatient abortion clinic in 1973, which has prompted him to take security measures that includes "working behind four layers of bullet proof glass."

"I will never be safe the rest of my life," Hern said. "No matter what I do. Even if I close my office. They've told me, don't bother wearing a bulletproof vest, we're going to go for a head shot."

Hern blamed comments from anti-abortion groups for Tiller's death.

"The anti-abortion fanatics have to shut up and go home. They have to back off and they have to respect other people's point of view. This is an outrage, this is a national outrage."

Randall Terry, the founder of the original Operation Rescue group, responded to news that Tiller's clinic would remain closed with, "Good riddance." He said history would remember Tiller's clinic as it remembers Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps.

"What set him apart is that he killed late-term babies," Terry said. "If his replacement was going to continue to kill late-term children, the protests would continue, the investigations would continue, the indictments would continue."

Current Operation Rescue president Troy Newman, who had condemned Tiller's killing as vigilantism, called the announcement "a bittersweet moment."

"Operation Rescue was just two months away from getting Tiller's medical license revoked, and that would have accomplished the same goal," Newman said in an e-mail.

A complaint before the State Board of Healing Arts, which licenses and regulates doctors in Kansas, alleged that Tiller violated a state law that required him to obtain a second opinion from an independent physician. It also accused Tiller of engaging in unprofessional or dishonorable conduct, but it did not say he'd botched any abortions.

A spokeswoman for the board has said since Tiller's death that the case likely would be closed.

____

Associated Press Writers P. Solomon Banda in Denver and John Hanna and Carl Manning in Topeka, Kansas, contributed to this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap_ ... n_shooting

Closing this clinic will prompt further attacks on abortion providers. In the mind of Roeder and others of his ilk, this gives additional incentive to attack the physicians providing these services.

[grixit]

...Randall Terry, the founder of the original Operation Rescue group

Not strictly true. Before Terry's Operation Rescue, there was already an organization by that name. It was created to address the issue of missing soldiers in Vietnam. Back when i lived in Orange County, there were two entries in the phone book. The phone company listed them as "Operation Rescue (Pro-Life)" and "Operation Rescue (POW-MIA)".