Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

A collection of old posts from all forums. No new threads or new posts in old threads allowed. For archive use only.
SteveSy

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby SteveSy » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:18 am

"Currency" and "Current Money" are two different things. "Currency" is anything used as a medium of exchange. A coupon is a form of currency as are checks. "Current Money" can only mean legal tender.

Though this is from a 1919 book of legal definitions I suspect the current words used in the law are most likely from something much earlier like those in this book. As you can see "currency" and "current money" have two different meanings. "Currency" is anything used as a medium of exchange in the transaction of business and "current money" is lawful money.

NorFed never attempted to pass off their money as lawful money aka government issued money. To claim they were "counterfeiting" is laughable at best.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YeMUAA ... #PPA329,M1

See pg 329 and 330

fortinbras
Princeps Wooloosia
Posts: 2982
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby fortinbras » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:30 am

Far be it from me to quibble with a 1919 law dictionary relying on 19th century court decisions for its material. But the latest (8th) edition of Black's Law Dictionary, s.v. money, treats "current money" and "currency" as synonymous.

SteveSy

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby SteveSy » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:22 am

fortinbras wrote:Far be it from me to quibble with a 1919 law dictionary relying on 19th century court decisions for its material. But the latest (8th) edition of Black's Law Dictionary, s.v. money, treats "current money" and "currency" as synonymous.


I don't have my copy here so I can't claim you're wrong. However, every single definition of "currency" I've found on the internet shows it to be basically anything used for exchange. I have my doubts Black's is that much different. Assuming it isn't then the law would make checks, coupons, gift certificates and cards and numerous other things illegal under the law because they all fall under the definition of "currency".


I'll bet you're not giving the whole story. I'm willing to bet its more like all apples (current money) is a form of fruit (currency), but not all fruit (currency) is a form of apple (current money).

User avatar
cynicalflyer
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:07 am
Location: Half Way Between the Gutter And The Stars

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby cynicalflyer » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:43 pm

SteveSy wrote:NorFed never attempted to pass off their money as lawful money aka government issued money.


Again Steve, read the indictment and those portions detailing how Von Nutty tried to pass these things of when making "change" and encouraging others to do so.
"Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own eyes, there is the least of real liberty." -- General Henry M. Robert author, Robert's Rules of Order

ASITStands
17th Viscount du Voolooh
Posts: 1087
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:15 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby ASITStands » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:49 pm

SteveSy wrote:"Currency" and "Current Money" are two different things. "Currency" is anything used as a medium of exchange. A coupon is a form of currency as are checks. "Current Money" can only mean legal tender.

Though this is from a 1919 book of legal definitions I suspect the current words used in the law are most likely from something much earlier like those in this book. As you can see "currency" and "current money" have two different meanings. "Currency" is anything used as a medium of exchange in the transaction of business and "current money" is lawful money.

NorFed never attempted to pass off their money as lawful money aka government issued money. To claim they were "counterfeiting" is laughable at best.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YeMUAA ... #PPA329,M1

See pg 329 and 330


From LEGAL DEFINITIONS, Liberty Dollars (or the paper notes) are not bank bills, or other paper money, issued by authority, as and for the constitutional coin of the country.

Yes. Currency serves as a medium of exchange, but it must be issued by authority first and must be able to pass as and for the constitutional coin of the country.

Black's Dictionary of Law, Second Edition:

CURRENCY. Coined money and such
bank-notes or other paper money as are authorized
by law and do in fact circulate from
hand to hand as the medium of exchange.
Griswold v. Hepburn, 2 Duv. (Ky.) 3 3 ; Leonard
v. State, 115 Ala. 80, 22 South. 564;
Insurance Co. v. Keiron, 27 111. 505; Insurance
Co. v. Kupfer, 28 111. 332, 81 Am. Dec.
284; Lackey v. Miller, 61 N. C 26.


CURRENT. Running; now in transit;
whatever is at present in course of passage;
as "the current month." When applied to
money, it means "lawful;" current money
is equivalent to lawful money. Wharton v.
Morris, 1 Dall. 124, 1 L. Ed. 65.

—Current money. The
currency of the country; whatever is intended
to and does actually circulate as currency;
every species of coin or currency. Miller v.
McKinney, 5 Lea (Tenn.) 96. In this phrase the
adjective "current" is not synonymous with
"convertible." It is employed to describe money
which passes from hand to hand, from person
to person, and circulates through the community,
and is generally received. Money is
current which is received as money in the common
business transactions, and is the common
medium in barter and trade. Stalworth v. Blum,
41 Ala. 321.

fortinbras
Princeps Wooloosia
Posts: 2982
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby fortinbras » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:28 pm

Resorting to the second edition of Black's LD is even earlier (1910) than the 1919 dictionary Sy was using. But it's worth noting that the old definition of "currency" required that it be issued by "authority" and that NORFED/LD was calling its own funny money "currency".

Anyway, the indictment shows that Von NotHaus is being charged, not so much with trying to rev up his own new currency system, but with issuing the similitude of US currency, a charge almost indistinguishable from outright counterfeiting. In other words, his new-fangled coinage was too much like the old-fashioned real stuff.

LD's website had deliberately taken its old propaganda offline -- I suspect because, for the first few years, Von NotHaus was actually touting his funny money as being as thoroughly legal for currency as Govt Issue, which pretty much nails him for at least one of the offenses.

User avatar
cynicalflyer
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:07 am
Location: Half Way Between the Gutter And The Stars

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby cynicalflyer » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:34 pm

According to the Liberty Dollar people, it is the U.S. Government that is now running scared of Von Nutty

http://www.nabble.com/Why-NO-Cease-and- ... 15870.html

"David L Gillie" <DaveGillie@...> wrote:
My guess is that the FEDs are afraid to try to get a Cease & Desist order.

For anyone paying close attention you'll notice that ALL that has happened so far by the Feds has been carefully designed to make sure they have the ONLY SAY. (often with creative deceitful techniques)

For a C&D order, they would have to allow Liberty Dollar a SAY in COURT, the Feds do not want that for a variety of reasons, not least of which is they don't want to be EMBARRASSED!!!!

just my opinion!
DaveGillie


And this tasty gem

"Greg Geiger" <greggeiger@...> wrote:

If a C & D was issued and Liberty Dollar won in court, I think it would be fairly easy for the LD to sue the FBI for every Dollar and Potential Dollar that was lost while the business was closed. Not too mention interest, along with other miscellaneous damages resulting from a wrongful C&D.


But there is one bright spot in the group, albeit a somewhat dim one...

http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Why-NO-Ceas ... 22931.html

by nicholas312003

I think a more simple explanation is, they want Bernard to keep issuing his medallions (coins) right up to the day he goes on trial ,to show his defiance,and thumbing his nose at the law .His conviction and incarceration will be his cease and desist order.

They only need one charge to stick ,and we all know the liberty dollar still looks remarkably similar in design to a Peace dollar.(Still legal tender in the USA).

They nailed Al Capone on mail fraud .
It wont be too hard to find some suck hole Judge to see what the FBI is doing is in the "PUBLIC interest".
Wall street Vs Bernard Von Nothause. Who do you think will win????

Nick.
Last edited by cynicalflyer on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own eyes, there is the least of real liberty." -- General Henry M. Robert author, Robert's Rules of Order

.
Pirate Purveyor of the Last Word
Posts: 1683
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:06 am

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby . » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:52 pm

Some moron wrote:They nailed Al Capone on mail fraud


Multiple counts of tax evasion.

Those LD supporters are so knowledgeable. Probably almost as smart as the indicted and soon to be convicted VonNutBall.
All the States incorporated daughter corporations for transaction of business in the 1960s or so. - Some voice in Van Pelt's head, circa 2006.

User avatar
Doktor Avalanche
Asst Secretary, the Dept of Jesters
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 11:20 pm
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Doktor Avalanche » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:17 am

Wall street Vs Bernard Von Nothause. Who do you think will win????


I'll take that sucker bet: Wall Street in 5.
The laissez-faire argument relies on the same tacit appeal to perfection as does communism. - George Soros

User avatar
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:11 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Demosthenes » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:05 pm

LIBERTY DOLLAR ALERT:
June 2009 Vol. 11 No. 06-B

Welcome Liberty Dollar Supporters!

WOW! What a week! In answer to the many inquiries about how the "Liberty Dollar Four" are doing, we feel GOOOOOOOOOOD! As Eric Clapton and the Cream sang so many years ago: "I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad!" Sure the handcuffs and shackles, drama of the courtroom and finally making bond is a bit unnerving, but now a week after the arrest it is a lot easier to see the whole picture. We are going to win and going to win BIG!

For many years, Liberty Dollar has quested to belay the fears that the government was going to "come after us." And for quite a number of years we have pursued the government to resolve the legal issue and for the US Mint to remove their "warning" that use of the Liberty Dollar was illegal.

Well, we finally got our wish! Kevin, Sarah, Rachelle and I were arrested and now the government must prove their trumped up charges in court before twelve people. I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to this trial!

Make no doubt about it, this is not going to be easy, without pain or costs. If we want to exercise our right to use gold and silver as a "private voluntary barter currency"; if we want "sound money"; if we want to stop being ripped off of our purchasing power then we have to defend our rights. As stated in Bernard's Second Law of Money: Any law that purports to prohibit an American citizen from using a piece of gold or silver (or, for that matter, anything) in voluntary transactions between consulting adults is preposterous, antagonistic to a free market, and totally without legal merit. Click HERE for the Four Laws of Money.

Currently: Bernard, Sarah and Rachelle are out on Appearance Bond and no initial court date has been set in North Carolina, but it won't be long. Kevin Innes is being held as he is a Canadian citizen and considered a flight risk. While, regretfully Sarah has lost her job when the FBI picked her up at work, Kevin's fate is worse as he may be held till December due to the immigration issue. His initial court date is July 6 but it may be months before he is out.

You can help/write/send money order made out to Kevin at:

William K. Innes PID 377054
PO Box 31427
Charlotte NC 28231
Money order must include: Birth date Sept-3-1955 and PID 377054
Remember all mail is read.
Visitation is on Saturday in Charlotte.

And to round out this three-ring circus, the Department of Justice (DOJ) must reply to our two civil lawsuits for recovery of the wrongfully seized material on June 17 and June 20. Stay tuned for more fireworks as government tries to extricate themselves from the wringer… while we keep cranking along :)

Now, there are several ways for you to help. Of course, sending money is the easiest way… and we gladly accept any and all monies. In fact you can donate right from our shopping cart. Just click HERE. And while "money," be it counterfeit or not, is at the heart of the trial, it is certainly not the only way you can help. Most important, is our need for competent attorney to combat the counterfeit, similitude and confiscation issues. The person needs to be the best we can find and hopefully one who is personally convinced of the Liberty Dollar mission and will WIN! If you know of a HOT attorney, please ask him/her to email our attorney, Rob Stientjes. PLEASE do not send any info directly to our attorney, he bills us by the hour :)! If you have a referral, info or support, please email it to Legal@LibertyDollar.org. Thanks!

Another great way to help is simply order some Liberty Dollars! You get more gold, silver and copper while the market is still in its current consolidation low price range and you add to your stash of "inflation proof" currency. Trust me, every order helps! Click HERE for the Shopping Cart.

Special thanks to the special people who choose to make a cash donation to the Liberty Dollar. It is good people like you who are the reason why the Liberty Dollar is still in business. Just as I have put all my money into this effort to return America to value, I gratefully acknowledge an outright donation to be very very special. THANK YOU!

Now, if you want to do more and get your money back and maybe even make 50%, check out the Contingency Club. Just click HERE for info or click HERE to make a contribution.

ARREST DOLLARS: Meanwhile, we are down to our last few Arrest Dollars and the price is now $50! This the one that is specially hand hallmarked by me with a micro "handcuffs" stamp and my federally registered mintmark. Issued only from the day of the raid to the day of my arrest, June 4, 2009. The last few 2009 Arrest Dollars are currently on the Shopping Cart for $50 each. After these are gone, they are gone to eBay for much more money.

GOOD NEWS / BAD NEWS for the Tea Party Dollar Orders: The good news is that the initial order, placed during the 24 HOUR blitz, is due to arrive shortly and we are very hopeful that they will be shipped in time for the Fourth of July events. The bad news is that the dies broke after minting 48,000 T-Dollars. So we will ship 60% of your order as soon as the T-Dollars arrive. The bad news is that unfortunately, there is a backlog for dies Made in USA, so counting time to make the new dies, shipping time to and from China, the balance of all orders, including orders placed during the 24 HOUR blitz, will not arrive until the first part of September. I will post the ETA as soon as it is available. My apologies for this delay. Cracked dies do not happen very often but when they do, it is always a disaster. Again, my apologies.

PS: We still have a few Tea Party Dollars, and while nobody likes to wait, if you don't order now, you will certainly miss out on one of the most talked about issues in the history of the Liberty Dollar! Depending on the legal issues… the T-Dollar may be our last issue… it is certainly history in the making. Get some today. Click HERE to order.

ARTICLES: Have you seen the articles? While not as many as when we were raided, as bad news always sells the best, there has been quite a few articles, even a good one from Lew Rockwell, http://www.mises.org, who branded us the "Liberty Dollar Four." Here are the top five articles. Please click HERE for the articles page.

Head of Asheville Liberty Dollar operation arrested, faces 45 years in prison
FBI cracks down on people using their own money
FBI's Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending June 5, 2009
Asheville man charged in alleged Liberty Dollar fraud scheme
Liberty Dollars never took off as currency

UPDATE ON 30DMA: Have you been tracking the 30 day moving average for silver? As silver has consolidated its price in the $15 to $16 range, the 30DMA has advanced and is now a very solid $14.26. Please note that as the Liberty Dollar had previously Moved Up to the $50 Silver Base, once the 30DMA reaches $16 again, the Liberty Dollar will Move Up to the $50 Silver Base. Look out! Silver is headed to the moon. Please take advantage of this current low low price range and get some today!

Now is the time for action! Please! Buy, spend, use… do something!!!

Many thanks for your continued support. For it is only by banding together and adopting a free and independent currency that provides us with "just weights and measures" will we be able to throw off the yoke of a manipulated monetary/tax system and generate a peaceful and prosperous society.

Thanks for all your efforts to return America to value - one Liberty Dollar at a time!

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor
Editor@LibertyDollar.org
http://www.LibertyDollar.org
888.LIB.DOLLAR
888.421.6181
Demo.

User avatar
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:11 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Demosthenes » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:31 pm

Contingency Club
Your right to use Gold & Silver is at risk.

Click HERE to Participate!!!

HISTORIC NOTE: If you are visiting this page to support our Legal Defense Fund and are familiar with the US Mint warning, please skip this Historic Note. On September 13. 2006, the US Mint issued a "Warning" that it was illegal to use the Liberty Dollar. Then on Tuesday, March 20. 2007 Liberty Services, the organization that promotes and distributes the Liberty Dollar, has filed suit against the U.S. Mint in U.S. District Court in Evansville Indiana to enjoin the government from claiming that the use of Liberty Dollar is a 'federal crime'. It is not a "federal crime" to voluntarily use a piece of silver between two consenting adults. For more background info please click HERE. To read Bernard's Second Law of Money, please click HERE.

Please let me be blunt, honest and to the point: We need your help, please.

We have never asked for a donation in over eight years. In fact we have refused to accept any donations. But now the time is different. Now the Liberty Dollar is under attack and we need your help. The very idea of a free market is at risk due to the US government's assault on our right to use anything of choice in the market place.

The US Mint would have us believe that it is illegal for Americans to exchange gold and silver (such as the Gold and Silver Eagles minted by the US Mint or any other gold and silver for that matter) on a voluntary basis between consenting adults. Just imagine that at a time when "consenting adults" can legally exchange "fluids" between themselves, the US Mint would have us believe that you and I can not trade gold and silver between ourselves. This is ridiculous and an assault on the concept of a free market.

Of course the US Mint allegation is not the law, in fact, it is a lie. For that reason, the Liberty Dollar has filed a federal lawsuit: Liberty Dollar v Henry M. Paulson, Secretary of the Treasury, Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General of the United States, Edmond C. Moy, Director, US Mint for a declaratory judgment.

Since the US Mint posted their warning, over six months ago, no further action has been taken. No arrests. No indictments. No investigation. Nothing. The warning has been purely a scare tactic. Unfortunately it has been very successful, until now. You will not be arrested for having, using, or helping the Liberty Dollar at this hour of need. Nobody is going to chase you down for a $20 Silver Liberty.

Trust me, this lawsuit is no small matter. Nor is the cost. Initially estimated at $100,000 - we simply have no idea what the actual total cost will be. But it is not cheap to sue the US government that makes their money out of thin air and pays their attorneys with your income tax dollars. You want to change things? Then help us change the money.

We estimate that over 100,000 people know and use the Liberty Dollar, so if everybody just donated a dollar, we would have a chance to pay for the lawsuit. But not everybody will send in even a dollar. Trust me, people are not very responsive. Most will not even read this far or have any idea as to what is happening to their money or liberties. We hope you are different. So I am asking you to please send $10 because I bet only 10% of the people will respond... if that many. Now accepting US dollars and Liberty Dollars in metal, paper or digital form. Please note links below for your donation.

The Contingency Club works like this: I have guaranteed the attorney's hourly rate to recover your property for only a 10% duty on all returned material verses the usual 33% contingency fee. A savings of 23% on your property! Plus you can even recover that 10% or more when you double your money by contributing to the Contingency Club to finance the court battle over Rule 41(g) Motion.

Here is how you can double your money. Contingent upon winning the case (that looks extremely good given our extensive legal research) and securing the return of all the material, the Contingency Club will: 1) Pay you two dollars for every dollar you contribute if the attorney fees are less than $150,000; 2) Return your original contribution plus 50% if the attorney fees are between $150,000 and $300,000; 3) No contribution will be returned if the attorney is paid over $300,000 or if we lose. Neither is very likely.

Bottom line is that you should get your property back for only a10% duty by weight. Which most likely will be more than offset by a 10% appreciation in the value of silver. But we need your help to cover the attorney fees, please.

Minimum contribution to the Contingency Club is $100. Please make your check payable to "Burk & Reedy," the law firm that is handling the Contingency Club bank account and mail it to the Office in Evansville. We will forward it to Burk and Reedy and send a confirmation and acceptance of your contribution within ten days. Please note more than one contribution may be placed, such as $100 per month, and this "Double Your Money" offer may be withdrawn if over subscribed.

PLEASE NOTE: Thank you if you made an earlier donation to the "Legal Defense Fund," but that money was used on earlier legal issues and is not part of the Contingency Club. If you want to participate in the Contingency Club, please send in your contribution to the Evansville office with the check made out to: "Burk and Reedy" please. Thank you for all your support! Wait there is more. OK, so you are opposed to the Federal Reserve theft of your purchasing power, but you are equally opposed to donating... and you would rather buy something to help the cause. Great! Please click HERE to order a specially hallmarked Arrest Dollar. Each Arrest Dollar will feature two special hand stamped hallmarks with the "Scales of Justice" and my personal Mintmark. Thank you to everyone who previously donated. We wouldn't have come this far in such dark times if it weren't for you! Keep up all the cards, letters and orders. The more Liberty Dollars in circulation the better chance we have on winning our case.

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect / Editor
Demo.

Nikki

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Nikki » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:24 pm

Head of Asheville Liberty Dollar operation arrested, faces 45 years in prison
FBI cracks down on people using their own money
FBI's Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending June 5, 2009
Asheville man charged in alleged Liberty Dollar fraud scheme
Liberty Dollars never took off as currency

UPDATE ON 30DMA: Have you been tracking the 30 day moving average for silver? As silver has consolidated its price in the $15 to $16 range, the 30DMA has advanced and is now a very solid $14.26. Please note that as the Liberty Dollar had previously Moved Up to the $50 Silver Base, once the 30DMA reaches $16 again, the Liberty Dollar will Move Up to the $50 Silver Base. Look out! Silver is headed to the moon. Please take advantage of this current low low price range and get some today!

Now is the time for action! Please! Buy, spend, use… do something!!!


I'm under arrest, charged with selling bad money. So, in defense, I'm selling more of it. :roll:

User avatar
Evil Squirrel Overlord
Emperor of rodents, foreign and domestic
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:24 pm
Location: All holed up in Minnesota with a bunch of nuts

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Evil Squirrel Overlord » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:41 pm

That's more of a cult leader thing to say, than a fraudster. He's drank the kool-aid.
Are you saying that Ron Paul serves as a convenient chew toy to keep stupid puppies occupied so they don't roll in the garbage? -grixit

User avatar
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 10894
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby notorial dissent » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:47 am

I just love the way von Nutjob inartfully blends, mostly, fiction, and fact.

The Mint/Treasury doesn’t care in the least that he is peddling silver at grossly inflated prices, the National Mint or whatever it is called does it all the time, what they are complaining about is his uttering items that have the appearance of US coins, which is a felony, and what they are really complaining about, but he conveniently forgets/avoids that.

I love that he is supposedly filing a civil suit to stop the enforcement of a criminal statute. Kind of like Al Capone filing a civil suit to stop the tax evasion statutes from kicking in.

While it is true that they have never asked for donations, they have grossly overcharged/defrauded their customers their entire existence.

And again with trying to confuse one thing with another, the Mint is not trying to stop him, or anyone else for that matter, “exchange(ing) gold and silver “, what they are trying to stop is his making them in the appearance of US Coins, an unsubtle and important distinction.

So they filed a lawsuit, they aren’t going to like the answer they get.

von Nutjob wrote:Since the US Mint posted their warning, over six months ago, no further action has been taken. No arrests. No indictments. No investigation. Nothing.
Strange, then were did the indictment and arrests of last week come from if there has been no action? I would certainly call those something.

Sounds to me, more like the attorney, assuming he ever gets paid, is going to walk away with most of it, and the client/suckers are going to get taken for yet another ride, I wonder what sort of split he worked out with von Nutjob.

Yep, von Nutjob sounds like things are just going swimmingly for you.

The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

User avatar
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:11 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Demosthenes » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:09 pm

Evil Squirrel Overlord wrote:That's more of a cult leader thing to say, than a fraudster. He's drank the kool-aid.


More likely, he smoked it.
Demo.

User avatar
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 10894
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby notorial dissent » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:15 pm

That Maui wowie will get you every time......
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

Brandybuck

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Brandybuck » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:54 pm

It's rather sad. They could have sold overpriced ounces of copper, silver and gold, and been perfectly in the clear. They could even have used it as money amongst themselves if they had wished. Heck, I might even buy a coin as a souvenir myself, if it had a picture of Rothbard on it. But instead they decided to run the ragged edge of legality, and they got cut when they slipped.

User avatar
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:11 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Demosthenes » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Doing "the drop" will be their downfall.

Welcome to Q, Brandybuck.
Demo.

User avatar
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 10894
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby notorial dissent » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:13 am

But that wouldn’t have been anywhere near as appealing to the clientele/suckers he was trolling for, or who fell for his line.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

User avatar
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:11 pm

Re: Liberty Dollar Leader(s) arrested/indicted

Postby Demosthenes » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:35 pm

LIBERTY DOLLAR NEWS:
June 2009 Vol. 11 No. 06
Tea Party Dollar Is Late & Legal Update
Thank you for your support, orders and contributions; they are keeping the Liberty Dollar and its mission afloat! From the arrests on June 4th to the new 2009 Peace Dollar and 2009 Freedom Dollar, to the new "Trial Dollar," it's been quite a month! Please read the Legal Update for all the news as we strive to return America to value - one Liberty Dollar at a time.
Table of Contents:
1. Tea Party Dollar Is Late
2. Cancelled Orders & Silver Orders
3. New Trial Dollar
4. Announcing the 2009 Peace Dollar & 2009 Freedom Dollar
5. Free Shipping on All Shopping Cart Orders
6. Insurance Company Buys Gold
7. California Collapsing
8. Anguilla Liberty Dollar!
9. Numismatic Lists
10. Legal Update - Free the "Liberty Dollar Four"
Welcome Liberty Dollar Supporters!

1. Tea Party Dollar Is Late
The good news is the Tea Party Dollars are in the USA but the bad news is that they are stuck in Customs and you will not receive them in time for the Fourth of July. Bummer!
Of course, we will ship them immediately upon receipt. But given that we have 48,000 to ship, we can't ship them all the same day! Trust me we will ship them ASAP.
PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL T-DOLLARS WERE PRE-ORDERS. IF YOU WISH TO CANCEL YOUR ORDER, NO PROBLEM. JUST READ #2 IMMEDIATELY BELOW AND CALL US FIRST.
The good news is that the copper $1 Tea Party Dollar will be by far the best looking, best minted copper dollars to date because the dies were made in USA. Unfortunately the die shop was back-logged, so replacing the broken dies has further delayed the balance of copper Tea Party Dollar.
The balance of 52,000 T-Dollars are scheduled to be minted very soon and will ship ASAP. We anticipate shipping all orders by late September. In spite of these problems, we remain determined to provide the best $1 Tea Party Dollar for its worthwhile mission. Thanks again for your patience. Please stay tuned to the LDN for updates.
PS: We just received the Tea Party Dollar Flag! And it is TERRIFIC. If you ordered more than 100 T-Dollars and are due a flag or two as part of that order… we have mailed a flag to you for the Fourth of July party. Your order of copper T-Dollars will follow ASAP.
2. Cancelled Orders & Silver Orders
YES, we understand that three months is a long time to wait for your copper order. But that is simply the nature of having a ONE DOLLAR item made outside the USA. PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL COPPER ORDERS ARE PRE-ORDERS. If you can't or don't wish to wait, please DON'T place a pre-order.
IF YOU WISH TO CANCEL YOUR ORDER, NO PROBLEM. JUST CALL US OR EMAIL CANCEL@LIBERTYDOLLAR.ORG.
PLEASE DO NOT CHARGE BACK YOUR CREDIT CARD ORDER. THIS IS VERY DAMAGING TO OUR MERCHANT ACCOUNT.
IF YOU CHARGE BACK YOUR ORDER WITHOUT CONTACTING LIBERTY DOLLAR - WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT ANOTHER ORDER FROM YOU.
CHARGE BACKS ARE VERY SERIOUS, AND WE HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.
Meanwhile, I am very pleased to report that the bad times and delays for one ounce Silver Libertys are over. While the last batch of Libertys was terrible, the new Mint has since resolved their manufacturing problems. The supply tube will be full very shortly and immediate shipping will resume again. I apologize for the problem orders.




2009 Peace Obverse 2009 Silver Liberty Reverse 2009 Freedom Obverse

3. Announcing the 2009 Peace Dollar & 2009 Freedom Dollar
Not one… but two new one ounce silver dollars are now available! The 2009 Peace Dollar $20 and 2009 Freedom Dollar $20 are brand new and have never been issued before. Both have the same $20 Torch reverse design as the $20 Liberty Dollar, contain one ounce of .999 fine silver and measure 39mm. Both new issues have the same volume based pricing in six packages as the $20 Silver Liberty and are available on the Shopping Cart. Order 128 Liberty, Peace or Freedom Silvers for only spot + $3 with FREE shipping!


2009 Trial Dollar

4. New Trial Dollar for the cost of a regular $20 Silver Liberty
For long time readers, you may recall that we issued a very special $20 Defense Dollar (DD) with a hand stamped hallmark of the Scales of Justice and my federally registered Mintmark. The DD was available from September 14, 2006, when the US Mint issued their !@#$#@! warning until the FBI raid on November 14, 2007. The $20 Defense Dollar was initially issued for $30 and the extra $10 went toward our legal defense fund. The DD is now selling for $85 on Ebay! Somehow everybody made more than we did!
Then after the FBI raid, we issued a very special $20 Arrest Dollar (AD) with hand stamped hallmark of Handcuffs and my federally registered Mintmark. The AD was available from November 15, 2007, the day after the FBI raided Liberty Dollar, until my arrest, June 4, 2009. The $20 Arrest Dollar was initially issued for $40 and the extra $20 went toward our legal defense. The AD is already $55 and going up in the secondary market.
Now that I have been arrested, it is my "pleasure" to announce a very special $20 Trial Dollar (TD) that will be available until the Liberty Dollar Four are acquitted. Of course the purpose of the Trial Dollar is to raise funds for our trial because we still have to pay our own transportation and lodging costs even though the Federal government is funding our defense.



The Trial Dollar consists of a $20 Silver Liberty, a "Trial" hallmark with a gavel as the "T" and "RIAL" and my Mintmark for $50 each. Click HERE for an image. But if you order 6 or more Silver Libertys, Peace and/or Freedom Dollars we will include a Trial Dollar as one of the Dollars that you order. That way you get a Trial Dollar for the cost of a regular $20 Silver Liberty! And yes you can place multiple orders! You can also order the Trial Dollar separately for $50 each. This offer is good until the silver market ticks up and Liberty Dollar Moves Up to the $50 Silver Base or we announce the end of this Special Offer. Please note all bullion priced Liberty, Peace and Freedom Dollars are brilliant uncirculated (BU) condition. They are not proofs.
Quite frankly, there couldn't be a better time to pick up some silver. Look at the price! The Summer Slows/Summer Lows are upon us again. NOW is the time to order. Help yourself to low prices and contribute to the legal defense for Liberty Dollar. Don't let yourself be ripped off by a depreciating currency!
Please click HERE to order the new Trial Dollar for $50 or place an order for 6 or more Silver Libertys, Peace and/or Freedom Dollars and get one of the $20 Silver Libertys that you order a Trial Dollar and save more than $30!!!
5. Free Shipping on All Shopping Cart Orders
Just a quick reminder that all orders for $20 Silver Libertys placed on our shopping cart are shipped FREE.
6. Insurance Company Buys Gold
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co. Holds $400 Million in Gold
Gold got a significant endorsement today from one of the world's largest insurance companies.
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co., the third-largest life insurer in the United States, has bought gold for the first time in the company's 152-year history to hedge against continued declines in other asset classes.
The insurance giant has accumulated about $400 million in gold over the past several months. Northwestern Mutual Chief Executive Officer Edward Zore was quoted in Bloomberg saying, "Gold just seems to make sense; it's a store of value... The downside risk is limited, but the upside is large. We have stocks in our portfolio that lost 95 percent." Gold "is not going down to $90."
The move may prompt other insurance companies to follow suit. It makes sense for insurance companies to hold gold since gold is always an asset and can never be considered a liability.
7. California Collapsing
If you have not read this article by my friend Martin D. Weiss, Ph.D., please read it and consider your own state, family and business. Please click HERE for the California Collapsing article.
8. Anguilla Liberty Dollar!
While most of us, including myself may think the Liberty Dollar is an original name, to my amazement it was used by Scott Newhall, the editor of the San Francisco Chronicle, in 1969! Click HERE for an early use of the "Liberty Dollar" name.
9. Numismatic Lists
While the Liberty Dollar does not market itself as a numismatic item… it sure is! In 1998, Liberty Dollar's first year of issue, the $10 Liberty was only $7.50. Now it is $600 to $900 on eBay! And the highest auction on eBay for the 1999, our second year of issue, was a cool $1000!!! Over the past 11 years there has been about 100 different Liberty Dollars issued in platinum, gold, silver and copper. And while the government would have you believe such BS that they are all fraudulent counterfeits meant to undermine the US dollar, an increasing number of savvy collectors are jumping on the bandwagon and scoring! One of the most devout collector/dealers is Ron Goodger, who has developed an exclusive website for Liberty Dollar numismatists. For more info please visit: http://sites.google.com/a/dishmail.net/ ... yclopedia/. Or click HERE for additional info and a complete pricelist by another collector. Please note Liberty Dollar does not profit from any of these offers or sales and does not acknowledge the info is complete or accurate. Personally, I look forward to having the time to review the issues, mintages, prices and publish a complete history in a catalog with quality photos. Don't hold your breath.
10. Legal Update - Free the "Liberty Dollar Four"
The awful truth is that a "federal case" takes a lot of time! Currently, Sarah, Rachelle and I are scheduled to appear at 9:30 in US District Court in Charlotte, NC, on July 6. You are welcome to come but most likely it will be boring as our attorneys will request a continuance of six months to prepare our case. So the trial will be scheduled for December, but with pre-trial motions, etc., it could easily be pushed back to February or March or even later. Eventually, the trial will drag on for a month to six months. Most interestingly, as our case winds its way through the federal labyrinth, our great country will slide into a black hole a la the California Collapse and gold and silver will explode. What a terrible time for our great country!

The worst case has befallen William (Kevin) Innes. According to the government, Kevin is a Canadian who has been in the United States illegally for ten years, so he is considered a "flight risk" and will not be released. That means he may have to spend six to eight months waiting for the trail in County Jail! With the poorly educated guards, over crowded cells, bad food, little exercise and nothing to do, county jail is the absolute worst place!
Meanwhile, an immigration attorney has agreed to visit Kevin and review his case to see if it was possible to get Kevin out, for $500. We have started a special $500 fund just for Kevin's immigration attorney. It already has $180 in it. Please send $5, $10 or $20 to get Kevin out. Just make the check out to Liberty Dollar, mention that it is for Kevin and mail it to: Liberty Dollar, 225 N. Stockwell Road, Evansville. IN. 47715. As soon as we raise the $500, we will retain the immigration attorney to visit Kevin and hopefully get him out. I know that Kevin would greatly appreciate your support. I know I would! Thank you in advance for your support.
Unfortunately, the info published earlier to send money to Kevin's jail account was wrong. If you wish to mail money to Kevin, it must be a money order and include his NAME, PID# and DOB: WILLIAM INNES, PID 377054, 09-03-55.
Meanwhile, after EIGHT MONTHS the government has filed their reply to the group of claimants who filed a Rule 41g Motion for return of the wrongfully seized platinum, gold, silver and copper almost eight months ago! YES, you read that right… EIGHT MONTHS! Simply stalling! It is !@#$#@! for the government to take people's property and not answer the complaint for eight months! And how did they reply? They want more time to tie the seized property to the criminal complaint! Of course we will reply with the strongest language possible. Click HERE for the gov reply to the Claimants and HERE for Memorandum in Support.
The gov also replied to my pro se Rule 41g Motion for recovery of all the material seized that was not covered by the Search Warrant. And guess what? They want more time too! Click HERE for the gov reply to my pro se Motion.
Like Will Rogers said, "Thank god we don't get all the government we pay for."
SERIOUSLY, we need to raise some money for Bernard, Sarah, and Rachelle to get to Charlotte and WIN! As I mentioned, the government is paying for our defense, but we have to pay transportation to Charlotte plus hotel, food and miscellaneous expenses that we were not aware of. Just ordering some Liberty Dollar helps. Getting some Trial Dollar is even better… we actually make a couple dollars on those orders.J Whatever you choose to order, your support is greatly appreciated!
Closing Remarks:
Here is a very telling quote from an internal staff meeting by William Casey, Director of the CIA in 1981: "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."
And if you still have time on your hands, here is a recent article that appeared on the front page of the business section of the Evansville Courier & Press: "Despite arrests, some local merchants still accepting Liberty Dollars" Unfortunately, you cannot see the nearly half page photo of the Liberty Dollar! Huge and wonderful!
Many thanks for your continued support. For it is only by banding together and adopting a free and independent currency that provides us with "just weights and measures" will we be able to throw off the yoke of a manipulated monetary/tax system and generate a peaceful and prosperous society.
Thank you again for all your efforts to return America to value - one dollar at a time!
Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor
Editor@LibertyDollar.org
http://www.LibertyDollar.org
888.LIB.DOLLAR
888.421.6181
Demo.


Return to “Public Archives -- Read Only”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest