New Management at Scam.com

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James R

New Management at Scam.com

Postby James R » Tue May 25, 2010 2:53 pm

New Administrator: What to Expect

Trolls gain great comfort by never having to be personally accountable for what they say.

And, ironically, they’re scamming the visitors to Scam.com.


Have you read this idiotic B.S yet? "Trolls are scammimg visitors to Scam.com"?

What?

WOW...that forum is going down in flames...fast!

getupnow

Re: SCAM.COM

Postby getupnow » Tue May 25, 2010 4:46 pm

Been away from Scam.com for a few weeks and just caught up reading the Yoli thread. Had to read it twice to get a feel for what has happened. Also, noticed the thread about Len Clements is gone altogether.

It appears that Len has advanced much higher in rank in Scam.com than he has in Yoli although he probably earns the same from both.

No_Moron_Here

Re: SCAM.COM

Postby No_Moron_Here » Tue May 25, 2010 7:58 pm

getupnow wrote:Been away from Scam.com for a few weeks and just caught up reading the Yoli thread. Had to read it twice to get a feel for what has happened. Also, noticed the thread about Len Clements is gone altogether.


No, the thread is still there and is currently on the second page. The thread was locked on 5-19-10 and so it will eventually end up in scam.com Hell along with the other threads that have been locked. However, the Broker Jones thread was deleted today.

James R

Re: SCAM.COM

Postby James R » Tue May 25, 2010 8:42 pm

He's currently on a rampage over there threatening several people and locking down threads.

This guy really thinks that because he as the power to ban some accounts, and move some information around...that everything is just going to MAGICALLY disappear.

Watching this guy in action is pretty amusing!

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Doc Bunkum
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Re: SCAM.COM

Postby Doc Bunkum » Tue May 25, 2010 9:03 pm

Okay, let me be clear here. I didn't start this thread to trash scam.com. Nor was it to gripe about one Leonard Clements being assigned Administrative privileges over there.

The intent was to make know the heavy handed treatment scam buster extraordinaire Soapboxmom (and regular contributor here) received over there for all the countless hours she contributed keeping the forum running smoothly, all without compensation or so much as a "Thank you!". Once the pro-MLM faction got their grubby little hands on the control buttons of the forum, Heather suddenly found herself turfed out and banned.

Now that this thread has served it's purpose, maybe the Mods can see fit to lock it or even delete the damn thing. No problem with that on my end.

In closing, let me share the wisdom of Len Clements regarding free speech...

Furthermore, if you’ve said nothing that’s libelous, fraudulent, or in any way legally actionable, then not only would you have nothing to worry about, you should HOPE for a lawsuit against you! Then you could countersue with what’s called a SLAPP suit and make a whole bunch of money! Because it’s almost impossible to prove a libel charge in this country, no matter how badly you’ve actually libeled someone. I could literally claim you are a child molesting terrorist liberal (the three worst things I could think of, off the top of my head) and as long as I say that it’s my “opinion” based on how you “appear” to me, I’m protected by the First Amendment.

There’s another moderator here that can confirm all of this, after she gets back.
Last edited by Doc Bunkum on Tue May 25, 2010 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mike!

Re: SCAM.COM

Postby Mike! » Tue May 25, 2010 9:04 pm

James R wrote:He's currently on a rampage over there threatening several people and locking down threads.

This guy really thinks that because he as the power to ban some accounts, and move some information around...that everything is just going to MAGICALLY disappear.

Watching this guy in action is pretty amusing!


Like watching a bull browse around a fine china shop...

:(

getupnow

Re: SCAM.COM

Postby getupnow » Tue May 25, 2010 10:04 pm

I guess I am just stupified at the lengths Len will go to win an online argument or get the last word. Alot of the posts in the thread about him went over the line and had nothing to do with the spirit of that thread, but it and the Yoli thread would have died a natural death if he would simply have had the intelligence to quit stoking the fires.

The Yoli thread was almost out of steam completely and he goes to great lengths to become an admin solely for the purpose of deleting the thread about himself. Now after he accomplishes what he set out to do, now he pours kerosene on the Yoli thread with his pattern of back to back to back to back posts with more arrogance then ever. He threatens member after member about off topic posts and then within minutes posts repeated off topic posts to the same thread.

It's obvious Len and Lady Mod will get along beautifully because their combined narcissism could fuel a small city for a month. Both of them seem to be incredibly unhappy people with nothing more to keep them company than their own egos and now each other. Who knows, might be a love connection somewhere down the road. I would bet that the owner of Scam.com will yank one or both of them off that website within 45 days or less.

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wserra
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Re: SCAM.COM

Postby wserra » Wed May 26, 2010 2:51 am

Now that this is in the appropriate forum, I'll join in.

Doc Bunkum wrote:In closing, let me share the wisdom of Len Clements regarding free speech...

Furthermore, if you’ve said nothing that’s libelous, fraudulent, or in any way legally actionable, then not only would you have nothing to worry about, you should HOPE for a lawsuit against you! Then you could countersue with what’s called a SLAPP suit and make a whole bunch of money!


Well, no, it's the original suit that's the SLAPP. "SLAPP" stands for "strategic lawsuit against public participation". The countersuit would be an "anti-SLAPP". BTW, many states don't have general anti-SLAPP laws.

Because it’s almost impossible to prove a libel charge in this country, no matter how badly you’ve actually libeled someone. I could literally claim you are a child molesting terrorist liberal (the three worst things I could think of, off the top of my head) and as long as I say that it’s my “opinion” based on how you “appear” to me, I’m protected by the First Amendment.


One hundred percent wrong. You cannot protect a libelous statement of fact simply by prefacing it with "It's my opinion that". Don't believe me? How about the Supreme Court?
If a speaker says, "In my opinion John Jones is a liar," he implies a knowledge of facts which lead to the conclusion that Jones told an untruth. Even if the speaker states the facts upon which he bases his opinion, if those facts are either incorrect or incomplete, or if his assessment of them is erroneous, the statement may still imply a false assertion of fact. Simply couching such statements in terms of opinion does not dispel these implications; and the statement, "In my opinion Jones is a liar," can cause as much damage to reputation as the statement, "Jones is a liar."
Milkovich v. Lorain Journal, 497 U.S. 1, 18-19 (1990).

There’s another moderator here that can confirm all of this, after she gets back.


If he means Heather, she knows better. Better keep her banned.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

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Doc Bunkum
Scamologist General (MLM Division)
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:45 am

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby Doc Bunkum » Wed May 26, 2010 2:59 am

I wrote "court certified expert" ...

That's what it says on the Market Wave site

Court certified Expert in Network/Multilevel Marketing.

WendyD

There's no such title, Wendy. Judges in US state courts accept people as "experts" in specific subjects on a case-by-case basis. What it ought to say is that his evidence has been admitted in some (maybe even many) cases as "expert testimony" by a court, which will always happen if one side's lawyer wants to call him as an expert witness and the other side's lawyer doesn't object. (A judge will almost never object himself to an expert witness already agreed to by both sides at the preliminary procedural hearings.)

But of course it sounds more impressive to make it sound like some sort of "official title".

Post edited to insert the sentence above in brackets, for additional clarity.

Erneston

I am glad you have clarified what the title ought to be and
I agree a judge will almost never object himself ...

jebaroo

Here's a great example of the level of evidence that is now required on this board to make personal accusations towards an individual.

Show something, ANYTHING, that supports your claim that someone cannot be "certified" within a court of law as an "expert" in a particular field.

The bar is set pretty low, Earnie.

I, on the other hand, have went through the actual process, twice. In the first case the opposing council argued vigorously that I was not an expert, and the judge ultimately rules I was. That "certified" me as an expert, in the literal sense of the word.

In the second trial there were two MLM experts presented, both were opposed by opposing council, and the judge eventually ruled one was NOT an expert, and one WAS. I went on to testify as such in that case.

Len

Erneston. You are right, there is no such title. The Court doesn't certify anyone. You can be an expert witness, but you better have the credentials and expertise to back it up.


Lady Mod

I am glad you have clarified what the title ought to be and
I agree a judge will almost never object himself ...

jebaroo


A Judge can't... The judge and his court must remain impartial. They don't certify anything or anyone. Legally they have to or they must recuse themselves.

These are rules in every state, this happens to be from the New Hampshire Bar Association publication.

The guidance in the Canons of Judicial Conduct comes from general language applicable to judges in all cases. Judges are required to "Uphold the Integrity and Independence of the Judiciary" and "Avoid Impropriety and the Appearance of Impropriety."4 The concepts are intertwined with the obligation that judges act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the "independence, integrity and impartiality" of the judiciary.5 Judges must perform their duties "impartially, competently and diligently"6, concepts requiring judges to perform their duties "fairly and impartially" and "without bias or prejudice," while remaining "patient, dignified and courteous."7
http://www.nhbar.org/publications/di...sue.asp?id=388


Lady Mod


What is this we have?

Dissension amongst the mods on scam.com???

Emet

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby Emet » Wed May 26, 2010 3:30 am

Have y'all seen this?:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=167749&page=7
Starts with post #271
:mrgreen:

ChrisDoyle

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby ChrisDoyle » Wed May 26, 2010 3:55 am

Just thought you'd like to know, Lady Mod checked with two attorneys and yes indeed, Len is a Court Certified Expert.

A few people eating humble pie, I reckon......

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Doc Bunkum
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Posts: 318
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Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby Doc Bunkum » Wed May 26, 2010 4:01 am

ChrisDoyle wrote:Just thought you'd like to know, Lady Mod checked with two attorneys and yes indeed, Len is a Court Certified Expert.

A few people eating humble pie, I reckon......


Yes, I bet Lady Mod certainly is!

OK, I just talked to my attorney friend and our coporate attorney where I work, Steve (he's our new Arkansas State Rep) and ran this term by him.

It appears that if a Judge approves of you as an "expert" witness that effectively, you are "certified" by the court.

So, my pardons, I am wrong. I've never heard it put quite that way but the definition is accurate. You can be a certified court witness.

I think I'll go back to politics now. Sheesh!


Lady Mod


And as a footnote...

Originally Posted by jebaroo:
can you have both of the licensed attorneys get with ernie so he can educate them on the court system in the u.s.?
Jebaroo


My state senator trumps Quatloos personal injury attorney any day of the week.

Quatloos!!!! What a joke of a site!

Lady Mod



There. Happy?

I'm all for full disclosure.

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Doc Bunkum
Scamologist General (MLM Division)
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:45 am

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby Doc Bunkum » Wed May 26, 2010 4:06 am

Emet wrote:Have y'all seen this?:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=167749&page=7
Starts with post #271
:mrgreen:


Thanks for sharing that.

Now that is just too damn funny! :lol:

22nd May 2010, 06:21 PM
Hello all,

I've been a card carrying member of JREF (and CSICOP) for several years, but just wandered (slight pun indented) into this forum for the first time in search for discussions on this very topic - the Amega AMWand.

As a brief intro, I've been a consumer advocate, or "watchdog", serving the direct sales industry since 1990. I am currently one of only seven "court certified" experts in the field of multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes (there is a distinction, but I will not digress). Inquiring minds may Google my company, MarketWave, Inc., if you want more details as to who I am and my agenda for being here. blah blah blah...


23rd May 2010, 09:59 PM
Jesus, what a bunch of pricks. I came in here respectfully asking for help, and tried to answer what ever concerns you all had. I thought I was among some like minded skeptics who would be keen on helping me expose a scam. I really should have looked around a little before posting here. Turns out this board is as full of cowardly trolls who get off on trashing people, completely unprovoked, as scam.com and quatloos!

You can have your little mud puddle back. I've got better things, and better people, to deal with.


Took Lenny only 1 day to make a bunch of new friends on that forum I see! :D
Last edited by Doc Bunkum on Wed May 26, 2010 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ChrisDoyle

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby ChrisDoyle » Wed May 26, 2010 4:13 am

Doc Bunkum wrote:
ChrisDoyle wrote:Just thought you'd like to know, Lady Mod checked with two attorneys and yes indeed, Len is a Court Certified Expert.

A few people eating humble pie, I reckon......


Yes, I bet Lady Mod certainly is!

OK, I just talked to my attorney friend and our coporate attorney where I work, Steve (he's our new Arkansas State Rep) and ran this term by him.

It appears that if a Judge approves of you as an "expert" witness that effectively, you are "certified" by the court.

So, my pardons, I am wrong. I've never heard it put quite that way but the definition is accurate. You can be a certified court witness.

I think I'll go back to politics now. Sheesh!


Lady Mod


And as a footnote...

Originally Posted by jebaroo:
can you have both of the licensed attorneys get with ernie so he can educate them on the court system in the u.s.?
Jebaroo


My state senator trumps Quatloos personal injury attorney any day of the week.

Quatloos!!!! What a joke of a site!

Lady Mod



There. Happy?

I'm all for full disclosure.


i wasnt referring to Lady Mod... at least she had the guts to admit she was wrong....
I'm looking forward to Ernie and a few others admitting it too.

Emet

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby Emet » Wed May 26, 2010 4:33 am

Lah -di-dah. Words matter. Those that provide expert testimony do not call themselves "court certified". It's pretentious and silly.

http://forensic.org/
FORENSIC EXPERT WITNESS ASSOCIATION:
A Non-Profit Group of
Consultants Providing Forensic Services

http://www.reidpsychiatry.com/qualifications.html
Forensic consultation in civil and criminal matters

Of course,there is this guy:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ ... ks-expert/

http://www.ehow.com/how_2077677_become- ... tness.html

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wserra
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Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby wserra » Wed May 26, 2010 10:46 am

As I've posted before. Quotes from Clements' online C.V.

Previous Requests and Designations as Expert Witness:

People vs. Gold Unlimited (via third party representative).
Declined for ethical reasons.

Action by Fresno District Attorney against representative of Marathon
Declined for ethical reasons.

Action by Dr. Joel Wallach against ex-partner.
Declined to participate.

Heritage Health Products (defendant) in action by Distributor.
Declined to participate.


It is unclear to me how he was an "expert" in a case in which he declined to participate. It is equally unclear to me how being asked and declining is evidence of any expertise in anything.

Various Distributors vs. Equinox International.
Illegal Pyramid.
Participated in three separate cases on behalf of the plaintiff.


The first of the cases in which he claims to have actually participated. However, in the absence of the names of all parties - and preferably the names of the courts and the docket/index numbers - verification is impossible. The CV of any true expert will not only have that information, but the date of testimony as well, because true experts want readers to be able to verify their expertise.

This case: insufficient information to verify.

Action by Longevity Network against ex-training director.
Wrongful Termination.
Participated on behalf of the plaintiff.


Insufficient information to verify. See above.

Action by distributor against Cell Tech
Damages.
Participated on behalf of defendant.


Insufficient information to verify. See above.

Action by Longevity Network against American Longevity
Trademark Infringement/Damages.
Participated on behalf of the plaintiff.


Well, whaddaya know - two parties! And the information that it was a trademark case means that it was federal court. Lets check PACER, the federal court database.

Got it. Docket 04-cv-2404, Central District of California. Clements did in fact testify - but the judge precluded him from testifying to 90% of what he did, including analyzing the likelihood of confusion (key in trademark cases), damages, and conducting market surveys. He was permitted to testify regarding the MLM industry. The order is here. It's not very complimentary.

Before anyone waxes rhapsodic over Clements having testified as an MLM expert, remember two things: (1) there are "experts" on everything imaginable, from current events to the use of guar in textile manufacture. (2) For every expert on one side, there is typically an expert saying the opposite on the other. People MLMers regularly disparage - like Jon Taylor and Robert Fitzpatrick - have also testified as experts on the MLM "industry". I guess what they say must be true.

Action by distributor against Starlight International.
Wrongful Termination/Damages.
Participated on behalf of the plaintiff.

Action by distributor against Tahitian Noni International.
Damages.
Participated on behalf of the plaintiff.


Insufficient information to verify. See above.

Also see above for an example of proof.

If Clements (or anyone else) wants to give details as to any other testimony - date, court, docket - I'd be glad to take a look. Even better would be actual transcripts, something real experts gladly provide.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

getupnow

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby getupnow » Wed May 26, 2010 5:51 pm

So the latest controversy at Scam.com seems to be the fact that Len removed the thread about Broker Jones and his obvious scam for the same reasons he removed the thread about himself. Yet the thread didn't violate any of even the newest rules posted. No full names, no addresses posted, etc. Then he threatens another long standing member for banishment for posting the hometown of one of the moderators, but obviously posting a town is not the same as posting an address.

Interestingly enough I noticed that "Zachary" (owner/Admin of Scam.com) was reviewing the most recent Oceanside/Broker Jones thread this morning. I wouldn't be surprised if deleting the Broker Jones thread is Len's "waterloo" as an Admin for Scam.com because he obviously has cozied up with Broker Jones and has that scammer's back. And why shouldn't he? They have so much in common. Their posting style, their desperate need to be accepted, the fact that they are both completely delusional about how the real world perceives them and on and on and on...

Skyvoyager

Re: SCAM.COM

Postby Skyvoyager » Thu May 27, 2010 12:15 am

Annnnnnd the Yoli thread on Scam.com was just closed. It was begun on 9-19-09. After 4416 posts the discussion ends. At least it hasn't been deleted... yet.

getupnow

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby getupnow » Thu May 27, 2010 1:41 am

Would love to be a fly on the wall over at Scam.com. How could Zachary make Len an Admin when Lady Mod has been with there since day one. Guess no good deed goes unpunished, but Lady Mod seems to be towing the company line and has Len's back. Something tells me that things will blow up between those two sooner rather than later. I smell sabotage in Len's future :)

getupnow

Re: New Management at Scam.com

Postby getupnow » Thu May 27, 2010 2:09 am

So there is something extremely fishy about the Broker Jones thread being deleted by Len at Scam.com. The guy who brands himself "Broker Jones" has admitted he owns controlling interesting in Oceanside so Len's argument that Broker Jones is simply a victim couldn't be more hogwash. Len claims he removed the thread because it trashed Broker Jones personally yet Broker Jones is not his name, it is the "Brand" that this guy uses for marketing purposes. So why would Len remove the thread when Broker Jones couldn't have been trashed personally and the guy behind the "Broker Jones" brand owns controlling interest in Oceanside.

Does Broker Jones have something on Len?

Did some money exchange hands?

Did Len empathize with Broker Jones because of having a similar thread about him?

None of the above?


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