In your FACE, IRS and DOJ!

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Joey Smith
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In your FACE, IRS and DOJ!

Post by Joey Smith »

Uh, can somebody get these CtC refunds stopped sometime during my lifetime?
buddy


942 Posts
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 10:52:02 AM
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Refunds processed as late as May 18, 2007 - just two weeks ago....

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/MoreVictories17.htm

OK, while they may have a system in place to stop this nonsense after 3 years of prosecuting its illegality, perhaps one or two still slip through the cracks. Probably just a newbie which had no history of previous refund CTC filings so no pattern to investigate.

No way that this is fluke, the latest page of victories show those who have multiple years of refunds.

What my eyes see is clear evidence of the proper application of the IRC.

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"The real George Washington was shot dead fairly early in the Revolution." ~ David Merrill, 9-17-2004 --- "This is where I belong" ~ Heidi Guedel, 7-1-2006 (referring to suijuris.net)
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Kimokeo

Post by Kimokeo »

Notice "Liles"? Follow the link and look at the offsets to Civil Penalties. The penalties are all $500+.

A guess of what the civpen's were?

Hint: The amount is now $5,000 for each one.
This is based on the notices provided by that website. Only a guess
Quixote
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Post by Quixote »

Kimokeo wrote:Notice "Liles"? Follow the link and look at the offsets to Civil Penalties. The penalties are all $500+.

A guess of what the civpen's were?

Hint: The amount is now $5,000 for each one.
This is based on the notices provided by that website. Only a guess
All the more reason to stop his bogus return in its tracks.

It would be nice to know what's going on. Even if we assume CI is completely oblivious to CtC, standard processing should have prevented crediting FICA withholding as if it were income tax withholding.
"Here is a fundamental question to ask yourself- what is the goal of the income tax scam? I think it is a means to extract wealth from the masses and give it to a parasite class." Skankbeat
jg
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Post by jg »

No way that this is fluke, the latest page of victories show those who have multiple years of refunds.

What my eyes see is clear evidence of the proper application of the IRC.
Using that line of reasoning, such as it is, the slavery reparations tax credit is also a "proper application of the IRC" since refunds have been issued in that scam.

On the other hand, see http://www.irs.gov/irb/2004-12_IRB/ar13.html for a more standard method of determing if such a reparations credit is a "proper application".
No law, including the Internal Revenue Code, allows taxpayers to claim a reparations tax credit or any other similarly-named credit. Courts repeatedly have rejected reparations tax credit claims as frivolous and penalized taxpayers making these claims and promoters and return preparers who assist taxpayer in making these frivolous claims. See, e.g., United States v. Bridges, 86 A.F.T.R.2d (RIA) 5280 (4th Cir. 2000) (rejecting as frivolous the non-existent “Black Tax Credit” and upholding conviction for aiding and assisting the preparation of false tax returns); United States v. Haugabook, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 25314 (M.D. Ga. 2002) (ordering a permanent injunction against a promoter prohibiting the preparation of returns or other documents claiming a tax credit for slavery reparations or other similar frivolous credits and requiring that the promoter place an advertisement in the local newspaper declaring that there are no such tax credits); United States v. Mims, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 25291 (S.D. Ga. 2002) (ordering a permanent injunction against a promoter prohibiting the preparation of returns or other documents claiming a tax credit for slavery reparations or other similar frivolous credits); United States v. Foster, 2002-2 U.S.T.C. (CCH) ¶ 50,785 (E.D. Va. 2002) (holding “no provision of the Internal Revenue Code allows for a tax credit for slavery reparations” and ordering a permanent injunction prohibiting the preparation of returns or refund claims based on a “fabricated tax credit for slavery reparations”).
The issuance of a refund is evidence that a refund has been processed and is not in any manner indicative of the propriety of the claims on the tax return that claimed the refund. The decision in Hendrickson's case is a recent example of the later determination and recovery of a false refund claim.

That CtC refunds continue to be issued may be evidence that the IRS is too kind and gentle in issuing refunds prior to any review of the basis for the claim. Unfortunately, screening for invalid refunds does affect legitimate refund claims; so it seems that the IRS errs on the side of speed of processing over verifying the legitamacy of the return.

That Hendrickson and Ctc can exploit the weakness of the processing of refunds is not any credit to those claiming such false and fraudulent refunds. My guess as to why these refunds are still processed relates to the decrepit computing system of the IRS.
“Where there is an income tax, the just man will pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of income.” — Plato
ASITStands
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Post by ASITStands »

I'm with Joey on this! [Sorry for the familiarity.]

I find it extremely hard to understand why the computer cannot simply "flag" returns with Form 4852 attached and allow NO refunds until reviewed by an appropriate Examination Office.

I realize each of these cases will potentially face Civil or Criminal Fraud, but the fact this continues unabated is a continual pain in the proverbial. I'd like to see this end immediately.

Or, what am I missing?
LPC
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Post by LPC »

Kimokeo wrote:Notice "Liles"? Follow the link and look at the offsets to Civil Penalties. The penalties are all $500+.

A guess of what the civpen's were?
Oh, that's great. The IRS is assessing penalties for frivolous returns, but then the guy files a slightly less obvious but still bogus return and the refund goes right through?

How about a process that doesn't issue a refund check when the person (a) files a return reporting tax withheld against zero wages paid and (b) has a history of frivolous returns. Would that be too much to ask?
Dan Evans
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webhick
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Post by webhick »

ASITStands wrote:I'm with Joey on this! [Sorry for the familiarity.]

I find it extremely hard to understand why the computer cannot simply "flag" returns with Form 4852 attached and allow NO refunds until reviewed by an appropriate Examination Office.

I realize each of these cases will potentially face Civil or Criminal Fraud, but the fact this continues unabated is a continual pain in the proverbial. I'd like to see this end immediately.

Or, what am I missing?
I'd rather not hold up the legitimate 4852s. How about a system that picks up on the 4852s which correct the wages to zero, but do not correct the FICA or FWT? That way, people who are honestly correcting their 4852 due to a bona fide error, don't get penalized by the delay.
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Quixote
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Post by Quixote »

How about a process that doesn't issue a refund check when the person (a) files a return reporting tax withheld against zero wages paid and (b) has a history of frivolous returns. Would that be too much to ask?
Flagging an account for a history of frivolous returns might be too close to designating the taxpayer an illegal tax protester. Your idea doesn't need it anyway. It's impossible to have tax withheld on zero wages, so freezing the refund for such a return would not effect any legitimate return. Based on a pattern of referrals to me last year, I surmised that the IRS was flagging returns with a large refund/tax ratio. Why that wouldn't flag CtC returns is a mystery.
"Here is a fundamental question to ask yourself- what is the goal of the income tax scam? I think it is a means to extract wealth from the masses and give it to a parasite class." Skankbeat
ASITStands
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Post by ASITStands »

It would be something like:

[WITHHOLDING] Line 63 > 0
[REFUND] Line 72a > 0
[WAGES] Line 7 = 0
[TOTAL INCOME] Line 22 = 0

Where the taxpayer is claiming a refund based on withholding with no wages or income reported.

Would there be any legitimate taxpayers impacted?
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webhick
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Post by webhick »

ASITStands wrote:It would be something like:

[WITHHOLDING] Line 63 > 0
[REFUND] Line 72a > 0
[WAGES] Line 7 = 0
[TOTAL INCOME] Line 22 = 0

Where the taxpayer is claiming a refund based on withholding with no wages or income reported.

Would there be any legitimate taxpayers impacted?
Didn't Hendrickson claim some insanely small amount for income... like $130 or something?
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LPC
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Post by LPC »

webhick wrote:Didn't Hendrickson claim some insanely small amount for income... like $130 or something?
What do you mean "insanely small"?

According to John J. ("B for Braveheart") Bulten, it's only that $306.14 of income that stands between us and the rampant incompetence and malice of the entire federal judiciary.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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webhick
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Post by webhick »

LPC wrote:What do you mean "insanely small"?
Insanely small compared to what should have been put down on the tax return.
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Joe Blow

Post by Joe Blow »

What my eyes see is clear evidence of the proper application of the IRC.

Proper application of the IRC starts with proper application of the W-4. You can read its proper application in sec. 3402. Proper application is only applicable to proper applicants, not to improper applicants. Proper application begins with you. Proper application does not apply to nontaxpayers, only to taxpayers. Apply for your refund today. Proper applicants need only apply.
gottago
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Post by gottago »

Are they also unable to read the names on the checks you have posted? I remember they sued a few people a couple of years ago to get them to return the "erroneous" refunds but it would seem pretty easy to locate those involved. Maybe they should hire jj to track them down for them :wink: :wink:
LPC
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Post by LPC »

Joe Blow wrote:Proper application of the IRC starts with proper application of the W-4. You can read its proper application in sec. 3402. Proper application is only applicable to proper applicants, not to improper applicants. Proper application begins with you. Proper application does not apply to nontaxpayers, only to taxpayers. Apply for your refund today. Proper applicants need only apply.
To call this string of conclusions "Orwellian" would be an understatement, I think.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Joey Smith
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Post by Joey Smith »

gottago wrote:Are they also unable to read the names on the checks you have posted? I remember they sued a few people a couple of years ago to get them to return the "erroneous" refunds but it would seem pretty easy to locate those involved. Maybe they should hire jj to track them down for them :wink: :wink:
Actually, the IRS went after about a dozen CtCers and obtained settlements where the IRS collected more than if the CtCers had just paid their taxes in the first place.

The mail bomber did not reduce his "taxes saved" figure on his website, of course.

Some of these people will be criminally prosecuted, just wait and watch.
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"The real George Washington was shot dead fairly early in the Revolution." ~ David Merrill, 9-17-2004 --- "This is where I belong" ~ Heidi Guedel, 7-1-2006 (referring to suijuris.net)
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Joe Blow

Post by Joe Blow »

KEEP THE FAITH FOLKS - PETE REALLY HAS FOUND THE TRUTH AND WE (AND THE IRSS) KNOW IT!!!
What is the IRSS? What is the extra "S" for?

And anyone that says "PETE REALLY HAS FOUND THE TRUTH," is a nothing but a FOLLOWER, of PETE, not of TRUTH. How childish to imply that one person has all the answers to taxation. TRUTH is a PATHLESS land. TRUTH taxation can only be found in the United States Constitution. The tax code is ZERO TRUTH, and anyone that says there is any truth in the tax code is a FOLLOWER.
ASITStands
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Post by ASITStands »

I think he's alluding to the "SS" as in Nazi Germany.

Or, the Internal Revenue Secret Service.
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webhick
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Post by webhick »

ASITStands wrote:I think he's alluding to the "SS" as in Nazi Germany.

Or, the Internal Revenue Secret Service.
Really? I thought it was Invariably Really Super Sexy. You learn something new every day!
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ASITStands
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Post by ASITStands »

Do I detect a hint of wishful thinking, or is it merely envy?