Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alaska

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Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alaska

Postby The Operative » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:51 pm

Fairbanks Daily News Miner

Two of these bright people threatened the judge in their federal tax case. I am sure that will help them a lot. :brickwall:
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby The Observer » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:04 pm

In a lengthy courtroom speech last year, Cox said he does not intend to cooperate with the court system, but he sees himself as a peacemaker between his supporters and the government.

The FBI describes the Sovereign Citizen Movement as a domestic terrorism group.


Only a sovrun could claim death threats as being a peace initiative.

Members of the movement do not believe U.S. laws apply to them and sometimes make their own license plates or create their own legal trials, according to the FBI. A group of Fairbanks residents recently conducted their own trial of Cox at Denny’s Restaurant.


If you lose your case at the Denny's, can you appeal to the IHOP restaurant?

He is a leader of the Alaska Peacemakers Militia and the Second Amendment Task Force


What a piker - he isn't even a Republic Ranger.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Dezcad » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:14 pm

We've had the pleasure of reading about Mr. Cox before.

viewtopic.php?t=6699
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby GlimDropper » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:35 pm

The Observer wrote:

If you lose your case at the Denny's, can you appeal to the IHOP restaurant?


Well, I'm afraid that because the United States never ratified the Rome Statute the International House of Pancakes might lack jurisdiction in this case. Do we have an extradition treaty with Tim Horton's?

This might be worth watching, Schaeffer Cox was a rising star in many sovereign eyes. He was a man of action who knew how to make his wife mind her place and he wouldn't remove his hat in court. His physical attributes were remarked on fondly by some of the soveretts, even in an orange jumpsuit he'll look better than most pear shaped seminar salesman. I wonder if his good looks will be as appreciated by his future cell mates.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby rumpelstilzchen » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:19 pm

So, if your court case doesn't go your way, threaten the judge with violence.
It can't fail :lol:
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Gregg » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:25 am

Members of the movement do not believe U.S. laws apply to them and sometimes make their own license plates or create their own legal trials, according to the FBI. A group of Fairbanks residents recently conducted their own trial of Cox at Denny’s Restaurant.


Please tell me he's not gonna plead double jepardy because he was aquitted of all charges at Denny's.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby The Operative » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:39 am

Gregg wrote:
Members of the movement do not believe U.S. laws apply to them and sometimes make their own license plates or create their own legal trials, according to the FBI. A group of Fairbanks residents recently conducted their own trial of Cox at Denny’s Restaurant.


Please tell me he's not gonna plead double jepardy because he was aquitted of all charges at Denny's.


He was convicted. His punishment was he had to pay for dinner. :shock:
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby ashlynne39 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:54 am

Here's another article with copies of some of the pleadings. These people sound like real winners

http://newsminer.com/view/full_story/12 ... left_top_1
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby ashlynne39 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:03 am

Image

He looks like a little boy.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Gregg » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:21 am

ashlynne39 wrote:Image

He looks like a little boy.



By the time he gets out of prison he'll be a little more weathered.

Something like this maybe?

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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Demosthenes » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:14 pm

Definitely worth a read in its entirety:

http://www.adn.com/2011/03/11/1750269/f ... -kill.html
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby wserra » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:51 pm

In the underlying tax lien foreclosure case, the Vernons had counterclaimed some nonsense against the govt. The govt moved to dismiss the counterclaim. Here is the Vernons' response. It's 51 pages of gibberish - but that's not the point. Note how similar it is to the stuff we discuss here every day.

There may be a lot of dangerous wackos around.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:12 pm

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when i read gibberish like this by people who fancy themselves Great Constitutional Experts but cannot understand how the Constitution defines treason (page 17) or cannot understand the difference between the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment (although... they are both big, long things with lotsa legal-sounding words, so they must be equally important, right?).
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Gregg » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:46 pm

wserra wrote:In the underlying tax lien foreclosure case, the Vernons had counterclaimed some nonsense against the govt. The govt moved to dismiss the counterclaim. Here is the Vernons' response. It's 51 pages of gibberish - but that's not the point. Note how similar it is to the stuff we discuss here every day.

There may be a lot of dangerous wackos around.


I got 5 pages in, you owe me something for the wasted time. From what I got in those first five pages, they are arguing, among other things, that The United States of America is an anonymous party because they don't know who the United States of America is, that courts have defined the word "The United States of America" at least three different ways, and they can't tell which one they mean. Furthermore, they spend several pages showing where courts have tossed decisions because one party was listed as "Doe" and was for some reason or another not entitled to the privacy of doing so.

Okay, so far as it goes. (well, no, it's actually crazy but stay with me). Then they argue, with a straight face, that if the United States of America bringing charges against them is the lawful government of the United States of America, it is definitely not entitled under law to be an anonymous party (begging the question, if they Are, then they're not exactly doing the anonymous part very well are they?) and their case must be dismissed because the government is not allowed to hide their identity by using the name "United States of America" in the caption.

Who knew Lewis Carrol wrote legal briefs?
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Paul » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:05 pm

they are arguing, among other things, that The United States of America is an anonymous party because they don't know who the United States of America is


Could this be where Marc Stevens was trying to go with his "Who is the US?" question during his brief, unlamented sojourn here?
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Assessor » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:35 pm

It's actually 18 1/2 pages that seem to take issue with the complaint for naming the plaintiff as "United States of America" instead of "United States".
The Attorney General can prosecute crimes against the United States, so...
"This precludes the "United States of America" as a real party of interest or standing".

Then it's several pages concerning "venue" that dredges up the old "IRS districts" argument.

Last, we have every defendant denying that they are a "taxpayer" or a "federal citizen", but instead "reside in the United States". Later, it mentions that they are all "white". So there ya go...

After that, even I lost interest, but there's a lot about how the
IRS' "assessment regulations" weren't published in the Federal Register.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby GlimDropper » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:50 am

CaptainKickback wrote:Any bets on who rolls over first?


My money would be on Michael Anderson. I haven't found a copy of his indictment but he is being charged separately though the link Demosthenes posted described the charges he's facing as being similar. In the Cox et. al. indictment Anderson is mentioned as being the guy in charge of surveillance and who made a list of the home addresses for people on the target list and with acquiring photographs of the targets etc. The indictment mentions Cox telling militia members to contact Anderson to get a copy of the list but several times Anderson refuses. He's quoted as telling a militia member that he's "not sure what sort of mess Cox is trying to get me into." Later Lonnie Vernon was quoted as telling Anderson that "you can go your own way but you have to give up the list."

It's fairly impressive the number of time the indictment uses the phrase "was lawfully recorded by the FBI." Conversations taking place in the homes of Cox and several other militia will be submitted into evidence. But at least one of the recorded conversations took place at Denny's which makes me think someone was wearing a wire. Is it possible that the prosecution might be deliberately painting Mike Anderson as being potentially cooperative to draw attention away from another insider who wore a wire to one or more conversations?
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby Demosthenes » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:27 pm

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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby GlimDropper » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:18 am

The federal indictment (pdf link)

One very minor point of interest:

j. On March 10, 2011, COX and BARNEY met with the person with whom
they had placed their order for a pistol equipped with a silencer and grenades so that they
could purchase these items. COX and BARNEY each received a pistol with a silencer.
They also received four hand grenades, not knowing that the grenades were inert.
BARNEY carried $6,000 in cash on his person for the purpose of purchasing additional
guns and destructive devices.


The State indictment makes mention of eight grenades, four of which were described by Cox as "the real deal" as in military issue while four were "grenade hulls filled with black powder and capped." What I'm wondering is if the four grenades the federal indictment described as "inert" were the ones Cox believed were the "real deal" or if they were the empty hulls they filled with their own explosive.

The state indictment has more of a time line and mentions someone's name in quotes as "Bill" who sold Cox a pistol with a silencer and grenades, the federal indictment mentions no name but states that they traveled to Anchorage to discuss this deal with someone. The state indictment indicates that after receiving the first grenades, they wished to purchase more from the same source, so if the first ones they got from "Bill" in Anchorage were empty hulls, Cox didn't seem upset about it. They discussed purchasing more powerful powder to fill their hulls with and different fuses from the same source. But the federal indictment states that Cox didn't know he'd purchased "inert" grenades. I suppose this could be a small error of fact between the two indictments, that or "Bill" the weapons dealer in Anchorage has a rather specific reason not to as worried about selling illegal weapons to people now in custody than he otherwise might be.

[A late edit to avoid double post]

Looks like I was wrong about "Anchorage Bill" not having anything to worry about, a piece of the puzzle that I saw before found a fit. There's a post on the Alaska Citizen's Militia Google group that caught my eye, the timing seemed significant. Has DZ Checked In? From which this explanation is offered:

To all,
Did a recon of DZ today.
Bill was last seen Last Monday, he met with his attorney at the store and signed over ownership of the store and all his assets to another person.
He has not been heard from since. I assume he bugged out to a safer climate due to the number of threats he has received.He had to have received a credible threat to just vanish.
I hope he is doing ok.


And in today's Anchorage Press we find this article:

Missing in action

Cops raid a Fairbanks militia and Spenard shop owner goes missing


Spenard being a neighborhood of Anchorage. The article bares reading, there is some background info there but more to point:

The same day Cox was ducking authorities and preparing for armed conflict outside of Fairbanks, a warning about him was posted up on the online forums of Alaska Citizen's Militia. "I have not spoken to Cox since this whole thing happened, but I do know that his inability to stop saying stupid shit will contribute greatly to the mess this has become..." a poster named "Bill" writes to two Cox defenders who post under the names Ray and John.

Bill is William F. Fulton, also known as "DropZone Bill," the man who founded a military surplus supplier in Spenard called DropZone and who was briefly famous for providing security for the U.S. Senate campaign of Joe Miller. (His guards once handcuffed journalist Tony Hopfinger, the editor of Alaska Dispatch who doggedly pursued answers from Miller about his previous career as a government attorney in Fairbanks.) DropZone Bill has since disappeared and so have his postings at the militia forum.

None of the documents filed in federal or state courts mention Fulton's full name, but the state's felony complaint against Cox and five of his Peacemaker comrades allege they were negotiating the purchase of weapons from a dealer named "Bill" based in Anchorage. Five days after the Fairbanks-based Peacemakers were arrested, Fulton disappeared. His former employee, who gave only the surname "Giles" when interviewed, said he now is the owner of DropZone, and has tried everything he can think of to find his friend.



The article linked above quotes a few things said by Bill on the Militia Google group, I tracked down the thread for the full quote (Post #8):

Ray and John
Not everything is always as black and white as we would like it to be. I have not spoken to Cox since this whole thing happened, but I do know that his inability to stop saying stupid shit will contribute greatly to the mess this has become (telling the troopers you've got more guns, and men than they do and you can have them all dead in one night)(telling the judge better to meet in the courthouse during the day than there house at night). I am not condemning him here I am just shinning a light on why I may be reluctant to jump in when somebody has purposefully stirred the bee hive. Schaffer has placed himself in a very dangerous and potential violent position not because of his failure to appear but because he has directly/ and indirectly threatened the safety of other human beings add on top of that his standing in the militia and his refusal to submit to the court and you have the trifecta of circumstances that make his violent demise that much more plausible.
I like Schaffer, I believe in much of what he stands for ( not all but a lot). I will support him to a point, but I will not leave my family fatherless because he likes to poke rattlesnakes. Most of you are unaware that this almost happened last summer too and was defused by quite a few of us. The road that this could lead one down is not the road of a reactive Militia, but that of a proactive one ......................That is a huge leap to take. The moral, legal and personal repercussions of becoming an armed proactive group are not to be taken lightly. We are not talking about going to see a judge here or paying a fine. We are talking about real death, and real bloodshed is this the cause you are willing to die for is this the person you are willing to fallow through the gates of oblivion? Were not talking about putting on some camouflage and going out in the woods to play war with your buddies here or debating the ins and outs of one constitutional view vs another. The corner that Schaffer has backed himself into here is of his own making mostly due to some very stupid self-important very public threats against people, when they come they will come heavy believe you me and if him or any of his guys tries anything they will all die.
Stand with him if you wish but as of yet I haven't seen any of you stand with em guys packing your crap and heading up there to do it. So sit on your computers ramble about how you stand with him, support him, believe in him all you want but at this point your all full of shit.................( I will retract that when either Ray or John give me a call from Fairbanks)........You guys want to go Rambo then fine do it but don't sit here and play the holier than though card Ray while your still sitting behind your computer instead of behind a scope.
I for one will not be tossing my life away because Schaffer cant keep his mouth shut. I will be ready if an unprovoked attack comes at any one of you but Schaffer purposefully messed with the Bull (as my dad use to say) and is probably going to end up with the horns, pretty much due to his own stupidity.
Bill


Interesting to note that if the indictments are correct, Bill opens this post with a lie about not having spoken with Cox recently.
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Re: Federal and State LEOs arrest sovereign citizens in Alas

Postby bmielke » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:06 pm

Glim great post.

Let me point out that Silencers and Grenades are legal with the proper paperwork and taxes. Which I would guess they did not have. I would not be surprised if "Bill", assuming he has an FFL, set these guys up. If I was a gun dealer and a bunch of yahoos came in looking for hardware without the paperwork I would drop a dime to the ATF.
Last edited by bmielke on Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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