Joe Kreissl, better known under his alias “Freeman Austria”, is the face and voice of the small Austrian freemen community, and while there is no clear leader in that group, he is certainly the person with the most influence - and the most publicity. I have mentioned him several times in the UK WeRe bank thread (see here) and I believe he merits a closer look, especially since the last few weeks have brought some interesting developments, like bankruptcy and jail.
The place I want to start at is his mother, Hanneliese Kreißl-Wurth (her plain website). Daughter of a Big Band leader and a singer, she continued the artistic tradition, studied music on the (highly regarded) Bruckner conservatory and while, at first, she managed the family business (a pool and sauna company), in 1986 she discovered her real calling - song writing. Over the next 25 years she wrote, composed and produced around 2000 songs for dozens of artists in the genre of Austrian folk music (very popular here, think of it as the “Country and Western” of Austria). In that time she won 14 titles (including a lifetime achievement award) in the yearly so called “Austrian Grand Prix of Folk Music” - something like the Grammy's here - and is generally regarded as the Queen of Folk Music, having also discovered and fostered a number of emerging talents.
She is divorced and has four adult children - two daughters, Sabine and Melanie, as well as a son, Alexander - who is a talented dancer, won national titles and was one of the professional dancers in the Austrian edition of the TV show “Dancing Stars” - and another son … Joe. Well, Johannes. Johannes Ewald Kreissl (or Kreißl, both is acceptable in Austria).
Born November 14th, 1970, he was the only child following his mother into the music business. After graduation he learned audio engineering, and from 1992 on he cooperated with his mother on many projects - writing, recording and producing. His love is the Reggae, and he had an unsuccessful reggae band (“Buccaneers“), but he shared some of the success (and the credit) in the folk music business with his mother, including on their biggest Hit “Steirermen san very good - very, very good for Hollywood” (inspired by Arnold Schwarzenegger’s success in the US, but that’s as much English as the song has - but it's a good example of the artistic standard of the songs).
In 1995 he bought a house (take a look - in 2015 it’s value was estimated at roughly 300.000 Euro), Waldweg 2, in Ried/Traunkreis (a district in the state of Upper Austria) and in 1999 founded his own production company. All this was financed by a 6-figure credit from the Unicredit bank - we will come back to the money (isn’t it always about the money) and the house a little later.
He has three daughters and lives alone now, but he is very hush about his family situation (and his family is very hush about him, there seems little support for his current path). At least his oldest, Marie-Sophie, 21, has inherited the family's performing talent. Following her uncle Alexander into the world of dancing, she won international titles and competitions for musical dance as a teenager, becoming a finalist in the German TV show “Got To Dance” and has a solid, semi-international career as a dancer, performer and model (her facebook page). Joe’s latest insolvency also lists two dependents, very likely the other two daughters, Coco and Luna.
From 2010 on his mother started to slowly retire - focusing on training and education, even politics, writing a book and eventually a musical (its story based on the “Steirermen” hit, it was a local success and even got a short US tour - here a picture after a performance with Hanneliese in the front, all black; a bit out of the way, in the center back, we see Joe, with beard and hat … and yes, in the left back there is a guy in black-face, I didn’t say its a very enlightened musical). After numerous cooperations up to this point there were only two in 2012 and one, the last one, in 2013. Joe didn’t seem to be able (or willing) to keep up the previous success on his own and the problems (and the real story) started.
It is often hard to say if the freemen/oppt believes of somebody were brought on because of a (financial) crises … or if the believes were the reason for the crisis. The same is true for Joe, with the escalation of financial issues going hand in hand with him diving head-first into the freemen ideology, but the chicken or egg question can’t be answered unequivocally. Of course, if you are a cynical person - and I know I am - you might see at least some calculation behind Joe’s maneuvers, too.
His first contact with freemen ideas was 2009 when he saw a video by UK freeman John Harris (here on youtube). Over the next three years he privately researched and formed his own version of the sovereign fantasy while, in his own words, “driving his family mad”. While a lot of fragments are well known oppt staples, like Austria and its administrative bodies being corporations or the separation between “person” and “human being”, he added his own coloring to the picture. With him the Catholic Church is at the center of everything, the pope owning the world and all its people in it, more specifically owning Austria (the company) and being responsible for deceiving the public into believing its laws and regulations (he likes to quote old, irrelevant canonical law to prove that, somehow).
In 2014 he even wrote an open letter to the apostolic nunciature in Austria were he invited the catholic church and more specifically the pope to a “dialog” (the text). At least that is what he claims at the beginning of it, but later in the (lengthy) text he eventually comes to the point. None of the church's “employees” (and he isn't talking priests, he means Austria’s civil servants) seem to know what he is talking about when he explains to them that he is no longer subject of the Republic of Austria, and so he asks for a document that he can show them to prove it (signed at least by the President, of course). Also, as a form of apology, he wants them to return to him all the money he has paid for loans and fines … including interest (isn’t it always about the money - no, wait, I already said that).
This letter (and others I will mention later) also show what can be considered his personal style. While the re-definition of words and phrases (sometimes down to syllables) is a common theme with freemen and sovereign ideas - but also with conspiracy, pseudoscience and esoteric theories - he is pushing it to a ridiculous and stupefying level (look for the many terms in his writings that he sets under quotes, re-purposing them at his whimsy). In a very well researched article about Austrian freemen (VICE, March 4th, 2016) an interviewed Franz Winter, who studied the freemen movement for the government after the Walkner standoff, calls it “pseudo etymologizing”. Believing himself clever (and able to penetrate the secret meaning of language and law), Joe is actually showing the very limited range of his intelligence and education. In one of his latest youtube videos (see here) he gives a good example of it when he explains marijuana (German “Marihuana”) to the stunned audience - Ma-rie-hu-ana … ma, mirror of “am”, “amor”, love; Ma-rie … “Mary”, mother of god, earth mother; hu … “hu-man”, “who”; ana … one, come in (both from heavy dialect); so “human, come into the loving mother earth” and “enter a higher consciousness”. He clearly already has.
If you want to learn more about his ideas about language you can come to one of his weekend workshops, where for 90 Euro (voluntarily paid, of course) he explains how “every word may be a sonorous, creative description of an universal angular displacement within the audible range of light [his words, I kid you not] by the observing human spirit”. In the aforementioned Vice article Christian Kreil, a blogger (his blog) who included freemen, and Kreissl specifically, into his area of interest about 2 years ago, found the following description for him - “Joe Kreissl is an entertainer, businessman and guru.” I would largely agree with that.
Anyway, on March 14th, 2012, with his ideas more or less formed, a pressing need for public attention and growing money problems (he had by now been fined 3.500 Euro by the financial authority for missing several tax deadlines and repaying the Unicredit loan was becoming a problem) it was time for his big outing … because Joe does nothing without an audience.
He sent an open letter (download at your own peril) to the Austrian chancellor, the home secretary, the supreme court and the governor of the state of Upper Austria, declaring that he is “leaving the limitations” of the Republic and declared himself a “sovereign spiritual being of the creation” (the term “freeman” does not appear in the letter, but about a month later he started his youtube channel “Freeman Austria”). Because the letter was later used by many other Austrian and German freemen as a template, let’s take a closer look at some of the passages (the whole letter is about three pages long and includes a lot of freeman and esoteric babble). A lot of oppt standards can be found here.
I claim the right to administrate all my concerns myself. The person Johannes Ewald Kreißl (born November 14th, 1970) only exists as a document (2057/1970 - birth certificate). It only exists within the system when I, the living, natural being, provide it with life. I didn’t know that before and hereby distance myself from this one-sided, and thereby in any case invalid contract. Should it become clear that the connection between the person Johannes Ewald Kreißl and me, the natural being, was, is, or will be abused by deliberate deception, resulting in damage to me, then I reserve the right to claim compensation. As it is me who puts life into the person, and without my doing the person is only a document, I claim the sole administrative power and sovereignty over it, for now and all time. Therefore all statutes lose power over this person.
I also claim the sole right to use the name Johannes Ewald Kreißl and reserve the right to demand compensation in case of damages.
Birth certificate, person, human, contract, sovereign, statutes, copyrighted name … it’s like a who-is-who of freemen terminology in just one paragraph.
I claim the right to use any human achievements, be it technical, intellectual or of any other nature, if they are of use to me and make my life easier.
Well, it seems freemen don’t believe in copyright, as long as it’s not their own name. I have to wonder about the copyrighted name of someone else?
I reserve the right, in case of a violation of law by civil servants, authorities, persons or others against me or my children, to demand a compensation of 5.000 Euro per hour, or 500 Euro in case of harassment, inspections or reprimands and such, or 50.000 Euro in case of violence, arrest, kidnapping, imprisonment or coercion contrary to my explicit consent. [the awkwardness of the last phrase comes from the German original]
And here we have the usual price list, and boy does he like to draft bills.
I also claim the right to keep and use all documents, means and numbers of identifications which were issued during the course of my life for the person Johannes Ewald Kreißl, not because I recognize any foreign authority over me but only to avoid conflicts or problems in my future life. This includes, as an example, driving license, travel papers, business licenses, social security number, and so on ...
Here we see the limits of his freemen believes, because if his comfort is concerned, he happily cuts corners and continues to use the “old” system.
I claim the right to participate in the financial system.
Considering he became the loudest WeRe bank promoter, this line is rather surprising.
Furthermore I claim the right to demand compensation for any damage that the long term deception about the person Johannes Ewald Kreißl has cause me during my lifetime. I set the amount of that compensation to 5 million Euro per year of my life.
Oh, he doesn’t just set a price list for the future, he also wants money for the past, for not realizing the deception earlier.
All the persons concerned, that want to discuss this declaration, have to answer within the next 10 days.
And here we have the usual “if they don’t answer in time then the contract is accepted” part. And he seriously talks about this letter now as if it is a signed, binding agreement with the Austrian government. I am sure they pay their bills any day now.
The declaration and his “Freemen Austria” youtube channel (started April 27th, 2012) didn’t immediately garner too much attention, he gained a few friends within the Austrian freemen movement but the Austrian public and mainstream media pretty much ignored the situation. Meanwhile his financial problems escalated, partly because of his newly found oppt believes. After having paid 2.500 of the aforementioned 3.500 Euro fine he refused to pay the rest - because it was an “illegal fine” - and eventually, when all efforts to collect the money had failed, was put behind bars for 4 days. Right after Joe was free again he presented the financial authorities with the bill for this outrage - roughly 5 million Euro, 50.000 per hour, as per his declaration. He was sent to a psychological evaluation - that happened several time in the early days with Austrian freemen because authorities didn’t really know how to deal with this crazy new ideology - and a process to put him under legal guardianship was started, but he could convince the judge that he was not out of his mind.
Slowly the situation over his Unicredit loan also moved towards a clash, when he went to the bank and proclaimed, he would of course repay the rest of the loan, BUT ONLY if they could prove that not paying would cause them any damage. Here we have the usual “loans are created by banks out of thin air” oppt crap, something especially delusional in Austria at this time, as the entire country is suffering because of a major bank insolvency (Hypo Alpe Adria), syphoning between 5 and 10 billion Euro from the federal budget and almost pulling the state Carinthia (who carelessly guaranteed wild, expansionist Balkan adventures by that bank and had to be bailed out by the federal government) into unprecedented insolvency, too. The reason for the bank crash - billions in bad loans. Funny enough, in one of his writings (see here) he complains about throwing tax payer money after that very bank. And explains that Austria is not a nation, although his argument is confused - he lists the three elements of a nation - territory, people and authority - and claims Austria forgot the people, while in the next paragraph mentioning article 6 of the constitution, which, you guessed it, defines Austrian citizenship. The rest is his usual redefinition of words and while I can enjoy the sometimes quite creative reinterpretations of historic events that freemen use to “prove” their point, Joe’s efforts fall pathetically short.
In some of his other pamphlets he falls back to more standard freemen arguments. For example in his lengthy “judicial” thoughts and explanations (see here) he himself calls a “check-mate of the system”. Like commonly done in the english freemen world, he uses a judicial dictionary (by Gerhard Köbler, ISBN: 978-3-8006-3415-6) as a base (and not, you know, actual laws). In Mai 2014 he even visited Köbler in Innsbruck and seems to have fond memories of the conversation with the man, although the law professor himself claims that his two guests (Joe was accompanied by one of his freemen friends) didn’t seem to understand anything he tried to explain to them. At least Joe uses a contemporary dictionary (he speaks of the 2007 print). His problems start when he stumbles into actual law - when he mentioned § 16 ABGB (Austrian Civil Code, first enacted 1811), which actually says “Every human has obvious, natural rights and has to be viewed as a person.” he struggles mightily to reinterpret it in a way that fits his agenda. He babbles over three paragraphs about “viewed” and the slightly ancient use of “angeborne” (literally “is born with”) while trying to distract from the fact that this one line simply contradicts the person/human view of the freemen.
Another treatise (see here) is aimed at civil servants and tries to tell them what they can or (mostly) cannot do when interacting with him. It dives deeply into the usual latin phrases, like “Nemo plus iuris transferre potest quam ipse habet“ - meaning "one cannot transfer more rights than he has" (in English texts usually the shorter “Nemo dat quod non habet” - "no one gives what he doesn't have" is used), and the usual “you can’t do anything unless we have a contract” assumptions mixed with a healthy dose of reinterpretations of relevant (and irrelevant) law. After several pages he reveals his actual agenda. What he wants to achieve is to create uncertainty and unnerve civil servants interacting with him, his favorite word being “remonstrieren” (“remonstrate”), to get the acting official to turn around and defer to his superior, right up the whole chain of command. He claims that all the officials that have interacted with him so far have actually broken the law and is quick to tell that to them, an empty but nevertheless grave threat (he explicitly mentions that they could be “imprisoned for up to 5 years by the international criminal court”). In an especially delusional passage he quotes international law and compares an administrative act against him with the article about genocide.
In 2013 a general election got most of the attention in Austria, and Joe had a small part in that, too. Eighth richest Austrian Frank Stronach (his Wiki entry) - think of him as an Austrian Trump - had entered the political arena and formed a party - “Team Stronach” - to run in the election (he gained about 6% and to the credit of Austrian’s electorate, he is largely irrelevant). He knew the Kreissl family (mother Hanneliese would be delegated into the public television supervisory committee in 2014 by Stronach’s team - official listing) and so Joe was hired to provide some entertainment (for an election he claims to be illegal), writing a song for the Stronach campaign (“Otto Normal-Verbraucher” which roughly translates into “Joe average consumer”). The campaign later underlined that he was just paid for a service and they don’t support his views, a question having some relevance as Austrian parties are compensated with tax money for election campaign costs and so public money might have helped freemen ideology.
Joe used most of that money not to repay his debt but to have a professional website build for the freemen community - http://www.welcometofreedom.at. That the abbreviation “WTF” was the same that Stronach used for his campaign slogan (“Wahrheit, Transparenz, Fairness” - truth, transparency, fairness) might just be a bizarre coincidence. The page went online February 3rd, 2014, and became a mouthpiece for him and a few of his freemen friends (for example celebrating the first German WeRe “success”, which had to be recanted later, of course).
The real jump in popularity and media attention was brought on by the Walkner standoff (see my Quatloos write-up here) on July 28th, 2014. While he - wisely or opportunistically - stayed away from the actual “clash” between 200 freemen and the 60 strong police force, in the aftermath he was right there and became a favorite interview partner for newspapers, radios and television stations reporting the event and its fallout. Of course, his confidence and ease in front of a camera or audience, his stage experience, undeniable charm and provocative choice of words, stood in stark contrast to the awkward and stiff freemen, rattling down their checklist of oppt talking points.
The attention of the mainstream also helped his reputation within the freemen community. Although his specific ideas, for example the strong focus on the catholic church, were largely ignored, all was well as long as he included enough of the more generic points in his snappy interviews and growing number of lectures. Freemen would find approval and entertainment in his talks and Joe certainly knows how to grab an audience, easily glossing over critique, negative comments and questions with a funny quip and a winning smile. Generally he avoids any conflict, even when other freemen bring up ideas that are contrary to his own, which is unusual in a community that normally defends its individual theories to the blood, but it has helped him to become an integrative figure in the freemen community, with many friends but no enemies.
The growing attention had its negative consequences, too. Austria is quite sensitive in the area of anti-semitism and statements that promote or defend nazi ideology. Personally I would favor free speech in all areas, but of course I understand where this is - historically - coming from, in a country that still struggles with its identity as a victim - and culprit - of Nazi atrocities. Our “Wiederbetätigungsgesetze” (“laws against the re-engagement in National Socialist activities”) are not as absolute or terrifying as some like to argue, but a few of Joe’s statements resulted in charges (he was acquitted of all of them this year). In videos he claimed that the Euro and the Austrian Federal Bank are owned by the Rothschilds and other jewish bankers (watch here), that a visit to the concentration camp Mauthausen (in Austria) has the same value of truth as watching Superman on televison (watch here) and that the Holocaust is still ongoing and nowadays perpetrated by the UN (watch here). While these are quite common “entry level” statements by right-wing radicals and Holocaust deniers, he claimed to not follow that ideology. Considering the general tendencies in the freemen movement it is certainly worth keeping an eye on, but I don’t consider him really dangerous in that area (contrary to some aggressively and violently fascist directions in some German “Reichsbürger” groups).
The newfound attention allowed him to generate some much needed (tax-free, or so he believed) income, because his money problem started to become serious. An effort to get rid of his debt through a bankruptcy in April 2013 (State court Steyr, casefile 14 Se 9/13s) was denied and his nice house was sold to cover some of the outstanding claims by the Unicredit bank. But this still left a considerable sum open. His only asset at this point was the money coming in from his music rights, and Unicredit went to court and obtained the right to seize them, too, until the debt is paid off - they still have their hands on them today (in one of his latest videos he complained bitterly about that, accuses Unicredit of fraud and calls intellectual property “inalienable” - in stark contrast to his freemen declaration, but we know by now what a cherry-picker Joe is). The amount left to pay is supposedly around 340.000 Euro, according to several of Joe’s statements in videos and his writings.
But if he lost his house, where does Joe live now? I am glad you asked, because this is another interesting facet of his tale. In one of my WeRe/PoE posts I translated a video by Joe that showed a couple telling their story how they tried to use WeRe checks to pay off 15.000 Euro of loan installments (see the original Quatloos post). Enter Wuki (“Wunderkind”, or “Wonder Child”), the female part of the naive, slightly overwhelmed and not too bright couple in the video, her actual name being Friedrun Hanreich. Her claim to fame within the freemen movement comes from her grandmother Pauline Hanreich-Ludwig, which, in 1959, bought a manor, with park and forrest (Schloss Walchen, build 1583 and heritage-protected, it even has a Wiki entry), and renovated it. Eventually it was inherited by the aforementioned Wuki. Joe Kreissl, in true guru manner, recognizes a mark when he sees one. He befriended the couple and moved into an apartment within the manor house, where he doesn’t pay rent, and eventually the whole property was declared “Erlösterreich” (putting parts of the German word for salvation together with the German word for Austria - “Erlös” + “Österreich”, a bit like “Salvamerica” or “Delivengland”). Of course, Erlösterreich was declared its own territory (in January 2015 - here the snappy "sign"). According to Joe it does no longer belong to Austria, he compares it to an embassy and calls it a law-free space, although he once again shows his cherry-picking as he also declares he will continue to use mail address, phone number, car plates and other conveniences from the old system. These days the manor has become a freemen community, with about a dozen freemen living under the comfortable roof - as they don’t pay rent, but only “give what they can” the financial troubles of the owner don’t seem over - but I am sure WeRe will solve that.
Meanwhile Joe continued his compulsion to seek publicity wherever he can find it, a sad highlight being his appearance in an afternoon talk show in February 2015. The topic of the show was people “mooching” off social security, and Joe droned on about the usual oppt theories and why nobody has to pay taxes. His provocative choice of words were just right for this kind of social porn, but for anybody with half a mind those were cringeworthy moments. He travels all over Austria and even Germany to give his lectures with subjects like freemen ideology, alchemy, language, sungazing and, starting in 2015, the financial system and the WeRe bank. While all those lectures are of course “for free”, invitations usually include a suggested “donation” (ranging from 15 to 60 Euro). Other terms are used, usually, like “energy compensation”, and it generates a nice, tax-free income for Joe.
Did I say tax-free? Actually, that’s what Joe believes, but where the Austrian financial authorities disagree with him, lately. Joe talks quite openly about his financial situation in some of his interviews, for example in a Newspaper Interview (with “Der Standard”) he freely admits that he “needs” around 2.500 Euro per month, and that he usually makes that from donations without problems. The authorities must have taken notice because in 2015 they suddenly demanded a payment of about 17.000 Euro of back taxes (estimated by the tax office) for his income from lectures (reported here). Joe was quite unhappy with that interpretation and argued that the donations go to the being and not the person, so they couldn’t be taxed. The Austrian authorities disagreed again and as no payment was forthcoming, they started bankruptcy procedures … again (State court Wels, casefile 20 S 25/16a). The Unicredit quickly joined in and an administrator was named.
Of course there is no problem, as far as Joe is concerned (in the above newspaper article the interviewed administrator, a lawyer from Linz, who had hour-long talks with Joe about the insolvency, described the attitude of the freemen “it’s like talking to a wall”). In videos Joe is happy to share his opinion on the matter. First of all, Joe has plenty of assets that can be used to pay off the debt. We remember, 5 million per year, that's over 200 million Euro by now, owed to him by the Austrian government. In addition about 5 million each for his two 4-day jail sentences (we come to the second one in a moment). He assumes the bankruptcy administrator will have to make sure those sums are collected. He also believes that a 10.000 Euro WeRe cheque amongst his papers has to be cashed in by the lawyer (this is not a WeRe cheque Joe has filled out himself, but somebody actually gave him that as a present - to my knowledge Joe is not a member of WeRe and has not paid anything to PoE or signed any promissory notes, even so he is drumming up business for them a lot; if he is doing it just for the lecture fees or if he gets a little bonus out of it, I don’t know).
The major twist in the bankruptcy proceedings - well, in Joe’s mind - is, that he actually sees himself as the biggest creditor. Because all the problems, we remember, were shifted to the person Johannes Kreissl, the debt is really not affecting good old human Joe. But there is a huge sum that the person is actually owing him, as he has made a contract between person and human being (posted here) in 2016 that basically obligates the person to pay human Joe a monthly annuity. The modest man Joe is, he has set this monthly sum at 10% of the Austrian federal debt, which would be about 29 billion Euro each month. Nice of the person to agree to such a contract. Meanwhile, in the real world, the bankruptcy proceedings will continue on May 19th, when creditors can present the court with their claims. While Joe is only talking about the Unicredit and the financial authorities as claimants, the insolvency notes speak of 17 creditors by now, so Joe doesn’t seem completely honest in his tales. Another note there reads “The debtor refuses any cooperation with the bankruptcy administrator”. Surprise, surprise …
And so we have reached present time. Two weeks ago, as mentioned, Joe had to sit through another 4 day jail sentence for not paying an 800 Euro fine. Showing that they have learned from previous events, the police did not go to Schloss Walchen to arrest him, but invited him to them under the guise of having to pick up a letter. Of course, Joe speaks of deception and kidnapping, while the police says, they wanted to avoid troubles with the freemen group at the manor. At least it gives Joe the chance to write another bill. The arrest resulted in a big internet upheaval, and as Joe had posted name and telephone number of the civil servant responsible, it resulted in two days of telephone terror, too. Authorities were eventually worried that the angry freemen would appear in force to demand Joe’s release (who knew the whole time it was only for 4 days), but a demonstration loudly announced had exactly zero participants. Austrian freemen are mostly cowardly internet warriors nowadays, focused on trying to wring some benefits out of their believes (like not paying taxes or believing in the WeRe and other, even more hair-raising schemes - for some reason Swissindo is big here at the moment).
Lastly we get to an event last week that might explain at least some of Joe’s state of mind. Monday, in the early morning, 15 police officers were knocking on his door, showing him a search warrant - which wasn't signed, as Joe likes to point out, and anyway, his apartment is exterritorial. Nevertheless the officers started to search through his little home, looking for a document that was stolen during a court hearing in South Germany (an especially bizarre case of German sovereign aggression, where a freemen crowd stole the judge’s files during the hearing and managed to get it out of the court building before security could intervene - Joe was amongst the crowd, for some reason,and as far as I know everybody of that group got a visit by the police - read here - the move didn’t help the defended, by the way, she was convicted and sentenced to 8 months). The police didn’t find the files, but what they found was a Growbox (explained here) with a number of marijuana plants (my research says that a regular sized box can easily hold a dozen or more). So the police didn’t go home empty handed, they confiscated the plants and the equipment and Joe was “invited” to an interrogation in the afternoon. Joe’s reaction … this costs the police 5.000 Euro per hour keeping the plants away from him. In a video (on his own channel, here) he explains his view about drugs - plants are natural, always okay and healthy and therefore should never be regulated, but where a “laboratory” is involved - meaning heavier, “produced” drugs - it’s okay to be against - I wonder what he things about beer or if he only suckles hop and malt plants at home. In any case, he admits that he smokes marijuana for a long time now, and while I generally don’t mind the legalization movement for that issue, I have to wonder what the long-term use has done to his mind.
So there are interesting times ahead for Joe (if you want to follow his facebook page) …