Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[Jeffrey]

IDK, my gut says if it was a positive decision on bail, it wouldn't have been adjourned.

[Hanslune]

If he does get out I suspect he'll tell the world...

[notorial dissent]

If he were going to be getting out I can't imagine he would be quiet about. Either he or his acolytes would be trumpeting the hills by now. When has he ever been able to keep his mouth shut before, except about his failures?

[Llwellyn]

We will see Soon.

As for him getting out, it is up to the judge to decide if his time in Remand is worth the 1.5~2x day value.. That ratio is NOT a guarantee.. the judge could void that since it was by Deans own actions that he remained in Remand for so long. If Dean had not (frivolously) attempted to use the great Freeman Woo and OPCA system, he would have been tried long ago. I would HOPE that the judge would see this and decide on shortening, or voiding his time in Remand as applied to the case/time served. That is to be seen. Are they going for maximum sentencing -?- there are a lot of possible variables that could effect many changes.

And as for Dean himself.. yes I would say they would be screaming at the rooftops on how he beat the system, and made them pay, and corrected their super corrupt system.

Tomorrow is another day. (for most Cept ol Dean Boy!)

[littleFred]

BEFORE MARTIN, J.. Adj from 16-Mar-2015 to 19-Mar-2015

I reckon Judge Martin just wants to keep everyone in suspense, biting our fingernails. Or he is creating an epic to rival Mead v Meads.

[Hanslune]

I think the judge is trying to figure out a way to legally allow Dean to be flogged and branded on the forehead with a 'D' for dunce.

[grixit]

I think the judge is trying to figure out a way to legally allow Dean to be flogged and branded on the forehead with a 'D' for dunce.

I'm sure there is a Common Law precedent.

[arayder]

The Canadian law experts would know more about this than me. But, I have to wonder who wants to be the judge or the prosecutor let's Dean off easy only to have him continue in the same vane, or worse actually carry through on his threats to kill police officers.

I know Dean beat the wrap on the threats charge, but he's still a known hot head who doesn't show any signs of mending his ways. I suspect if Dean gets let loose until he stands trial the courts will just have to track him down once again after he fails to show up in court.

The other challenge I see for the court is proceeding with the trial when Dean, in effect, refuses to participate in his defense because he stands up and yells at the judge every time he is brought into court.

I assume the only way to deal with such behavior is to put Dean in another room with an audio and video connection to the court which can be cut off in mid rant.

At some point in time, if this behavior continues, the would the court have to declare Dean nuts and treat him accordingly?

[notorial dissent]

I should imagine that Dean's file should be in the realm of a storage box or two at this point between all the charges that have been filed against him and the crap he's filed in to the legal system. You'd think that would be a warning to whatever judge he comes before. I think the isolation room may well be the only viable solution if they actuallly want to get through an entire trial. What worries me, and obviously others, is that even if he does do some time, he is still going to be the same narcissistic violent nutcase he is now, and he will eventually hurt someone.

[Burnaby49]

Who says the impossible can't happen if you just wish hard enough. Dean got bail!

57 19-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB BAIL HEARING ORDER MARTIN, J 19MAR2015, BAIL GRANTED

58 19-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB RECOGNIZANCE 19MAR2015, OR $10,000, 2 SURITIES - $20 000, $10 000, KPBGB, PA, RESIDE, CURFEW (8PM - 6AM), CURFEW CHECKS, NOT OPERATE MOTOR VEHICLE, NOT O/P/C ANY WEAP (EXCEPT TOOLS WHILE EMPLOYED), NOT O/P/U ILLEGAL DRUG, NOT LEAVE THE PROV OF MB/ NO C C W COMPL

I'm not sure why there are two sureties (bail amounts).
KPBGB = Keep the Peace, Be of Good Behaviour (i.e. no illegal acts),
PA = unsure,
RESIDE = must stay at a certain residence,
CURFEW is obvious, as is CURFEW CHECKS,
MAY NOT OPERATE MOTO VEHICLE = obvious
NOT O/P/C ANY WEAP (EXCEPT TOOLS WHILE EMPLOYED) = obtain, purchase, carry, I suspect,
NOT O/P/U ILLEGAL DRUG = obtain purchase use, I suspect
NOT LEAVE THE PROV OF MB = obvious
NO C C W C = not sure

So is this all of the restrictions? Because it seems to me that Dean must have had a very tough challenge to get release. I'm wondering if he is living with his parents and they are the ones supervising him; it seems pretty implausible that the Court would have trusted Darren or any of Dean's usual circle for that.

No evidence of a written decision on file, so I presume this was an oral decision.

What probably was a key element is that Dean has now already served a hefty chunk of his minimum sentence. It would be very interesting to know more about this little saga, particularly with him first retaining a lawyer, and then her quitting.

[littleFred]

I suppose WEAP = weapons.

Does he have to find $30,000? Or a proportion thereof?

I'm surprised this isn't being celebrated on http://deanclifford.info/ and elsewhere.

[Burnaby49]

I suppose WEAP = weapons.

Does he have to find $30,000? Or a proportion thereof?

I'm surprised this isn't being celebrated on http://deanclifford.info/ and elsewhere.

My thought too. Not a word anywhere that I can find. Although I doubt that there are many who think that bail, after serving over a year in remand, constitutes much of a victory. Although for Dean it might be. He fought hard to try and ensure that he wouldn't get it.

[arayder]

Could the "PA" or "NO C C W C" have something to do with a requirement to report to a bail officer or the court as ordered?

I don't want to belabor the point, but back in his old haunts with his old buddies, including his brother Darren, I can easily see Dean reverting to his old ways. I'd say the odds are good he'll break the conditions of the bail agreement.

And as reserved as Canadian cops are ya' gotta figure there's still a few who'd love to catch the cop hating Clifford in violation of his bail agreement.

[Bill Lumbergh]

The "No C C W COMPL" likely means "No contact or Communication with Witnesses or Complainant", or something to that effect. In this case, unless someone else called the cops, the complainants would be the police officers.

This is likely a "no-deposit" bail, meaning that no cash had to be deposited to get released. However, Dean and his sureties are on the hook for that money in the event of a breach.

I'm a bit surprised to see the "KPBGB" condition though, as other courts have stated that's it's too broad and vague to be a bail condition. There is nothing that confines it to illegal acts. Anything considered "bad behaviour" could, at least theoretically, constitute a breach.

I guess good things happen if you pray hard enough to Baal?

EDIT: I should add that the "Reside" conditions means he likely has to reside with one of his sureties.

[bmxninja357]

@burnaby49,

is that the full text or is there more? i believe the interpretations posted of the abbreviations are correct. and the conditions seem standard. a might too standard; thats left me wondering if there is more to it. it seems to me there should be a couple other conditions that would be standard in like cases.

this could also be a set up. its not uncommon for the courts to release someone to 'give them enough rope'. im surprised bail was granted due to the failures to comply and inability to obey conditions. but we also do not know the conversation of the hearing. there could be a number of reasons he is being released.

if i had to give dean a piece of advice, head down, mouth shut, and not so much as j-walking. basically if you get stopped your back in the big house. lay low.

peace,
ninj

[Jeffrey]

Dean is claiming to be a free man on Facebook.

No mention of the bail conditions.

[Burnaby49]

That's a cut and paste of the entire court notation.

I'd hardly call letting Dean go a "set up" since it is entirely up to him to him whether or not he complies with bail conditions and he didn't have to accept bail under the terms offered. He's already indicating that it might be somewhat difficult to adhere to them;

Jessie-Neil The-Man ..on bail with a huge list of conditions...
about an hour ago · 1

Jessie-Neil The-Man .. mind you I can see one or 2 of them being violated.
about an hour ago ·

Dean Clifford Correct Jessie-Neil The-Man, but I can fight from out here. Not gonna lie, they made things completely impossible for me.
about an hour ago · 4

One of his supporters is playing the same old tune on the old trumpet;

Dan Kostantin I find it funny after the bullsh*t I've been through, and seeing what deans been through, that people are calling the corporation CANADA a government. It's nothing more than a fraud, and lies. I seen it mentioned in the Medes versus Meads argument, That indeed the all cap is a fiction. Under USC code says that using a fictitious name without consent is a fraud and swindle!

And of course, the stupidity. Always the stupidity;

Troy Anderson so when are you filing your claim for false imprisonment?...lmfao

Sleez E. Foxx Funny how things happen when they gave him a voice in court huh? Huge lesson here to be learned folks. YOUR PAPERWORK SPEAKS FOR YOU, YOUR ACTUAL VOICE MEANS JACK SQUAT.
26 minutes ago · 1

We've seen what happened when Dean's paperwork spoke for him. There are examples of his court filings posted in this discussion.

[wserra]

this could also be a set up. its not uncommon for the courts to release someone to 'give them enough rope'.

As I've said before, I have never represented anyone in Canada. However, I've represented lots and lots of people in the U.S., and (as I understand it) the systems are not that different. I have never seen someone released "to give him enough rope" to commit another crime. As a matter of fact, letting someone out of jail who goes on to do something heinous is a judge's worst nightmare.

I think it far more likely that the court was concerned that Clifford was approaching having served more time than he would do if convicted of the charges. In the U.S., keeping someone in pretrial detention for longer than he could do if convicted is a violation of due process.

[Jeffrey]

It would be good to see what the correspondence between Dean and the Judge was before this decision.

Will he try some unilateral freeman shit to get out of the bail conditions? Will he skip the next court date? Will he track down the cops he threatened to beat up and fulfill that promise? A siege and shoot out when he fails to show up to court?

[bmxninja357]

the violation of due process applies if it is the crown holding up an expedient conclusion to the matter. this is not the case here.

and i can assure you the courts in many cases like to build up enough charges to keep a troublesome offender off the streets for a more extended period of time. i know from my younger years. there was many times my lawyer wondered why i kept getting bail. but one can only plea bargain away so much. currently many small charges are gone. so to assure detention your released and observed. when the offender is caught in breach of conditions or finding new offenses it gets piled on. thats when you get your lengthy sentence and an assurance that pre release is more difficult due to likelihood to re-offend.

you might not like my choice of words; but it does go down like that on occasion. and that likelihood increases when you strive to get on the wrong side of the cops, crown, court workers, judges, etc.

peace,
ninj