Dean Clifford: Sentencing & Beyond

[Wake Up! Productions]

yup it does. it always requires knowledge consent and control. you can physically have stolen property in your possession and not know it was stolen.

Call me crazy, but this sounds like "spin".

If you are in possession (#1 CONTROL) of stolen property, without (#2) KNOWLEDGE of it being stolen, this is only 2 of the factors you listed. Where does the (#3) CONSENT come into play?

[bmxninja357]

I knew it was stolen (knowledge) I accepted that (consent) I accepted the item (control)

Now it's possession of stolen property. Even if I hide the item in the bush I still match all 3 elements.

Peace
Ninj

[bmxninja357]

so if dean went to a shooting range he would have knowledge of the weapons present. he would consent to using one. then he would take control of it. and he would be off to prison again for possession of a firearm.

the firearm may be seized as evidence but the place would get it back if they did not have knowledge he was not to posses a weapon. because they would not consent to him controlling a weapon on their premises. in short they would not consent to unlawful possession of a firearm.

but if they knew he had that order and allowed it anyway they would be guilty of a few offenses as well as deaner.

peace,
ninj

[RaccoonMother]

I was just looking at the Manitoba Courts' website and I notice that for the transcript request forms there are only two options:

• Request by Counsel for a Transcript
  Request by a Self Represented Person for a Transcript

From: http://www.manitobacourts.mb.ca/transcr ... r-request/

Notably absent is the form a member of the public who just happens to be interested in the case would use. Do we know how that will work with respect to Project Dean Clifford and the ordering of the reasons for sentencing transcript?

[Wake Up! Productions]

I knew it was stolen (knowledge) I accepted that (consent) I accepted the item (control)

Now it's possession of stolen property. Even if I hide the item in the bush I still match all 3 elements.

Peace
Ninj

Then you just contradicted yourself. Both scenarios either require or do not require (#2) KNOWLEDGE.

The fact is, (#3) CONSENT only comes into play in combination with (#2) KNOWLEDGE.

But your initial claim was that "possession of anything requires three elements".

In truth, possession only requires 1 element, (#1) CONTROL of property.

(#2) KNOWLEDGE and (#3) CONSENT only goes to further the criminal element of possession.

[bmxninja357]

nope.

i can take your backpack that you left at my house to you and have consent and control of the bag but no knowledge you have a pound of meth in it.

always three elements. no contradiction.

i live in your house in a room. you sell crack. i have knowledge, your the landlord so i have to consent to whatever your doing but have no control over it. im not in possession. the bag of pot in my room i would have knowledge consent and control over.

peace,
ninj

edit:
and yes i am talking of criminal possession of anything you shouldn't have

[bmxninja357]

and to just show you one further example i can own a house that i rent out. so i possess property but have no knowledge or consent to your storing guns, drugs and hookers there.

if i knew those were present and could get rid of them but don't im in possession.

make sense?
ninj

[Wake Up! Productions]

nope.

i can take your backpack that you left at my house to you and have consent and control of the bag but no knowledge you have a pound of meth in it.

always three elements. no contradiction.

i live in your house in a room. you sell crack. i have knowledge, your the landlord so i have to consent to whatever your doing but have no control over it. im not in possession. the bag of pot in my room i would have knowledge consent and control over.

peace,
ninj

edit:
and yes i am talking of criminal possession of anything you shouldn't have

I have to make one thing clear: "possession" is the same thing as "control".

You keep arguing the same points using different scenarios, but the fact is, "possession" is the same thing as "control".

You can not argue that "POSSESION of anything requires three elements", and one of those elements is POSSESSION.

That is like saying EATING food requires three elements, and one of those elements is EATING. WTF?

[bmxninja357]

I want you to buy a stolen bike for me so I give you money. I have you deliver the bike to Burnaby49.

I was in possession even though all I had was knowledge consent and control though I never physically possessed the property.

Ninj

[Wake Up! Productions]

I was in possession even though all I had was knowledge consent and control though I never physically possessed the property.

Again, another contradiction. You just ADMITTED that you had all 3 "elements", yet denied that you had physical possession of the property. The mere fact that you said that you had control MEANS that you had physical possession of the property.

Again, "possession" is the same thing as "control".

[bmxninja357]

perhaps take it up with a lawyer. i know full well it requires three elements and dont want to clutter the thread debating something that has been settled at law. its simply your head not wrapping around it. i have been down this road in court at least a half dozen times.

last time, i never physically had any control. everyone but me in the scenario did. i only had the elements not the item. and the elements are what makes possession not the physical item.

now back to deaner,

heres a video of inside canadas prisons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GbMsNap0_0

peace,
ninj

[Wake Up! Productions]

dont want to clutter the thread

Agreed on this point.

[Wake Up! Productions]

It appears as though Jordan Dawson has set up a new Youtube channel for Dean's Earth Stewardship Cooperative, though it is currently misspelled "Cooperatve" (missing the i). https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9oIRG ... XvQ/videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JIg8EFziRU

It also appears that Jordan Dawson has assumed control over Dean's personal Youtube channel. This message appeared today:

Dean Clifford 4 hours ago
Please subscribe to the Earth Stewardship Cooperatives new Youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9oIRGmpLujXt0xTthHqXvQ
Visit https://earthsc.com to join a private social network and get updates.

[Dezcad]

dont want to clutter the thread

Agreed on this point.

Instead of just posting your thoughts, its always helpful to point to legal authority to bolster your position - like this -https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... ossession.

[Wake Up! Productions]

dont want to clutter the thread

Agreed on this point.

Instead of just posting your thoughts, its always helpful to point to legal authority to bolster your position - like this -https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... ossession.

I figured out where the discussion went off the rails. I was speaking about the general definition of the word "possession", but ninja was speaking specifically about "criminal possession", which has a totally different definition.

[Jeffrey]

I think bmx understood the distinction, I don't think you guys are actually in any form of disagreement.

So is the plan for Dawson to pocket the donations until Dean gets out?

[Wake Up! Productions]

I think bmx understood the distinction, I don't think you guys are actually in any form of disagreement.

So is the plan for Dawson to pocket the donations until Dean gets out?

I read the FAQ page for Got Freedom. Dawson's cut is 25%.

Q: What's a Got Freedom Partner?
A: The Got Freedom Partner program allows you to earn a portion of all membership fees paid to Got Freedom. At the end of every month we meetup (physically and virtually) to tally up the total number of members each Partner group has and divid that by the total amount earned by Got Freedom. The more members your group has, the more you earn. Got Freedom retains 25% of all fees before they are divided to help pay expenses.

I posted a comment on Youtube directed at Dawson to the effect of, "It is a bad PR move to have Dean as the spokesman for a site called "Got Freedom", as Dean doesn't currently "Got Freedom" !!!

[Wake Up! Productions]

Question:

Is there any way of finding out exactly which prison Dean went to? I was hoping that it would have shown up on the court website, but no such luck.

[Wake Up! Productions]

I just checked Dean's Instagram account. A new image was uploaded last Wednesday (Jan.6).

President and 2 Sworn Officer's of the Earth Stewardship Cooperative. Finally, an alternative world government.

I wonder if either of the other two guys are Jordan Dawson?

[Hanslune]

I posted a comment on Youtube directed at Dawson to the effect of, "It is a bad PR move to have Dean as the spokesman for a site called "Got Freedom", as Dean doesn't currently "Got Freedom" !!!

What they took a page from MLM and get paid for how many suckers, er ah freedom seekers each brings in? Oh now that isn't going to end well at all.