Robert Menard - Ventilator Inventor Extraordinaire!

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Robert Menard - Ventilator Inventor Extraordinaire!

Post by Burnaby49 »

This outrage cannot stand!!!

The May 18, 2020 edition of the New Yorker has an article titled "BREATHING ROOM" with the subtitle "Engineers take on the ventilator shortage". The article is about the explosion of innovative new ideas to design a new, cheap, easy to produce ventilator. One that drops all the gold plating but works well enough for most COVID-19 patients needing ventilation. Now I defy anyone to come up with a design that has less gold plating than Robert Menard's RoboBreath, but is the RoboBreath the star of the article? Was Menard, Canada's most brilliant ventilator designer, interviewed for the article? Not a chance! Amongst other designs the article discussed the Vermontilator, an awkward stumble of a name, Ford's Airon ventilator, G.M.'s Ventec, the Spiro Wave, the VOSCON ventilator and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's M.I.T. E-Vent. But absolutely no mention of either Rob or the RoboBreath!

As soon as the pandemic hit Menard went into action designing the Robo-Breath, a device with the potential to save thousands. Unfortunately, after a week or so of effort, Rob gave up. But the RoboBreath shouldn't be judged on the basis that it's a total failure! Some, or even all, of the designs reviewed in the article, all done by the big-bucks establishment research facilities, will be failures too. Yet they get the praise and publicity while Rob is totally ignored.

I confess that I mocked Rob for using bathroom plunger parts from Canadian Tire as critical components in the RoboBreath prototype but it turned out that the engineers at the Jet Propulsion Lab were initially thinking along exactly the same lines;
"Gee, can we at J.P.L design a ventilator that uses parts scrounged from a garage, or from a vacuum cleaner or a Home Depot?"
While they concluded "That idea lasted about six hours" Menard was, at least momentarily, thinking right up there with the Big-Boys. And what recognition did he get for all of this effort? Nothing but a few randomly scattered postings on Quatloos. Shabby, shabby treatment. So, as partial rectification, I've moved all of the Menard RoboBreath postings to this dedicated thread so there is at least one centralized source that historians can refer to when writing up the history of the pandemic. They'll need it, the paper trail for the RoboBreath is rapidly disappearing. Menard's RoboBreath website is inexplicably gone as are his You Tube videos showing the device in operation. But at least Rob's kept his begging bowl open for donations!

https://www.gofundme.com/f/life-saving- ... hare-sheet

Although, after almost two months of soliciting, it's still $99,978 short of its $100,000 goal. No wonder Menard failed. Ford and M.I.T. didn't have to plead on GoFundMe for scraps to keep their dreams alive.

Anyhow, here are the postings starting with my first responding to a post from Gregg. I've put this preamble at the beginning of this post to explain why this new discussion suddenly popped up.

.........................................................................
Gregg wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:47 pm Deeper thoughts....

The metal dies, we mostly outsource that kind of small part stamping. Our presses make fenders not radio frames. Any number of shops have presses that can stamp district better and faster than us. But we can make the dies better and faster than anyone. That's work that can't be automated and has to be done by a skilled tradesman. Even the stamping we outsource we do still make and own the dies our self. And we are wicked good at replacing dies in a hurry.

On the 3D printing, we use it more to make parts for our machines when they break. It's quicker than ordering that part from Germany or China or where ever the machine was made and cheaper than maintaining inventory of whatever might break. But company wide we have thousands of the things some big enough to make full scale auto panels for prototypes. We'll really be able to help there I can see. Say the company that makes them has 2 printers and can make 40 parts a day. If they can send us the print we can make probably 2000 a day.

So I think our main contribution will be 3D printing and die craft service. I'd add we don't need his permission to do any of this.
Well Gregg we'd all like to thank you and Ford for your help in trying to end the ventilator shortage crisis however Ford and GM can stand down and go back to manufacturing cars and leave the production of sophisticated medical devices to the professionals, the people who actually know what they are doing. The problem needed the brains and abilities of people with the scientific, engineering, and medical knowledge necessary get the job done without relying on unavailable Chinese parts and expensive unnecessary frills. I am of course referring to Robert Menard and his friends!

That's right, Canada's greatest Freeman, in just one weekend, produced a ventilator prototype that can be immediately mass produced at an unbelievably low, low price! Thousands will pour out of factories every week!. So scrap those plans to have a few over-designed gold-plated machines trickle out of your plants in dribs and drabs, the problem is solved. I present to you all Robert Menard's Robo-Breath first prototype ventilator!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iwqFjjgh-U

It will no doubt come in whatever color combination the customers want.

Menard released his last Freeman video over three and a half years ago and has kept a modestly low profile since. But he's been actively inventing things to better our lives. His first big venture, done during his Freeman days, seems to have been the NinjaGoat, a mobile, stabilized camera platform. Unfortunately he was unable to perfect the 'stabilized' part so the camera bounced around like a kid's yo-yo. Then he had a venture where he proposed turning old furniture, fridges, dressers, whatever, into miniature hydroponics gardens that restaurants could install in their kitchens to grow their own herbs on demand. And this wasn't just some bullshit pie-in-the-sky concept, he built an actual prototype made from an old dresser! But, perplexingly, the restaurant industry failed to come on board. Next up was a stint as president and CEO of Imaginarium, his own computer gaming company. His idea in that one seems to have been some sort of tank game that combined computers and actual toy tanks, I was never clear on the concept. Guess that's why I spent my whole life and as a salary drone rather than an entrepreneur. Sadly that didn't seem to work out either so he moved into hand-made wooden bathmats, kitchen trays and such sundries. That one still seems to be in play and we may yet be all using Menard's wooden bathroom utensils.

However while his past ventures didn't meet with the success he'd hoped for his mind was always actively seeking new horizons and this time he's hit a home run. I guess it's finally time to stop mocking him. I'm almost seventy-one so I'm right in the coronavirus danger-zone. Perhaps, who knows, my life might be saved by a Robo-Breath. If so I'm going for subdued grays and black. The prototype is too flamboyant for my drab accounting background.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
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Robert Menard - Ventilator Inventor Extraordinaire

Post by The Observer »

Burnaby49 wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:47 pm That one still seems to be in play and we may yet be all using Menard's wooden bathroom utensils.
There seems to be a bathroom-type thing going on with his inventions. The video seems to indicate he re-purposed parts of toilet plungers as bellows. Imagine the air coming out of those going into your lungs.
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Post by NYGman »

The Observer wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:07 pm
Burnaby49 wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:47 pm That one still seems to be in play and we may yet be all using Menard's wooden bathroom utensils.
There seems to be a bathroom-type thing going on with his inventions. The video seems to indicate he re-purposed parts of toilet plungers as bellows. Imagine the air coming out of those going into your lungs.
I am hopeful he would use new parts, not recycle what's in his flusher. That and my hope his ventilator doesn't require you to flush for each breath, However, without watching, I have no idea what he is doing, but I have a mental picture of a glorified foot pump with Toilet bowl parts.
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Post by eric »

Really all he has done is hooked up some parts from one of those student's "build your own robot" kit, combined it with some bellows and made it free running. So.... nothing more than an uncontrolled rhythmic source of slightly compressed air. Hmmm.. he seems to be missing more than a few bits - tubing, valves, pressure sensors, O2 and CO2 sensors, a controller and God knows what else.
https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/Vi ... d=41692239
https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/co ... 9#57061435
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Post by longdog »

I literally don't know where to start with what's wrong with that.

OK... I do... Each "bellows" has two motors when one would do the job. If the second, superfluous motor was to ensure redundancy it would have halved the risk of failure but in that design it doubles it. He doesn't even seem to have been able to get the motors to work together in synch.

I'm guessing he happened to have the stepper motors lying around and it was easier to double up on them than do the maths to work out a linkage to compress the bellows evenly with one.

I could design better than that in under an hour. Give me three hours and I could do one with a feedback system controlled by an Arduino.
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SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
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Post by Burnaby49 »

It reminds me of an entry in a high school science fair. Menard mentioned on his Face Book page that he's competing in a contest to build a quick cheap ventilator. He doesn't say what contest, perhaps this one;

https://vancouversun.com/transportation ... ad21dc3bd/

He said that his design has been accepted into a second round but I doubt it.His credibility is always an issue. The CAE entry will be a functional fully-working ready-to-go prototype, not just a pair of Canadian Tire sourced plastic bellows.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
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Post by longdog »

As Eric says any ventilator is going to need sensors for O2, CO2, pressure and god alone knows what else. Any idiot can build a bellows pump. Turning one into a ventilator that doesn't kill the patient is the clever bit.

This monstrosity is like building a crankshaft and calling it an engine.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
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Post by AndyK »

Back in the good old days (I'm over 70 years old) ventilators worked very well without all those sensors and thousands of lines of computer code to control them.

How about pulling a couple of them out of the Smithsonian, replicating them by the hundreds AND THEN dumping them when the new models arrive?

Are we trying to keep people breathing or to support modern technology?
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Post by wserra »

MIT is working on the same thing - a simple, relatively quickly- and easily-made ventilator that will assist a patient's breathing without killing him. The key is the rubber duck.

Now, let's see - Menard or MIT?
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Post by Burnaby49 »

longdog wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:16 pm As Eric says any ventilator is going to need sensors for O2, CO2, pressure and god alone knows what else. Any idiot can build a bellows pump. Turning one into a ventilator that doesn't kill the patient is the clever bit.

This monstrosity is like building a crankshaft and calling it an engine. :shock:
Menard's always been very ambitious about throwing out big idea concepts and sometime actually starting them but he doesn't have the ability, focus, or self-discipline to finish anything. His entire history is one of abandoned projects but I wouldn't even call this idiotic contraption a project. When I first saw it I thought that it was just some buffoonery, a typical Menard failed attempt at a joke. But I'm beginning to think he's at least somewhat serious. Nothing else to do with his time I suppose.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
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Post by AndyK »

wserra wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:05 pm MIT is working on the same thing - a simple, relatively quickly- and easily-made ventilator that will assist a patient's breathing without killing him. The key is the rubber duck.

Now, let's see - Menard or MIT?
I prefer the MIT approach. Possibly biased towards them -- one of my alma maters.
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Post by TheRambler »

Well worth reading this article in The Spectator:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/Ven ... oronavirus

As the author points out, a placebo trial is clearly out of the question, but it does cause you to reflect.

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Post by Burnaby49 »

Menard has just revealed the real purpose of his purported efforts to try and save us all through random Canadian Tire sundries. Altruism? A dedication to the common good? Nope, it's just another of his GoFundMe schemes;
Robert Menard
1 hr •
GoFundMe

You can help us get our prototype to the next level and secure the proper accreditation and approvals. Every little bit helps.

You can help by coughing up $100,000 to his GoFundMe Account;

https://www.gofundme.com/f/life-saving- ... hare-sheet

He's even created a website for his toilet plunger contraption;

https://www.robobreath.com/

Now there are all kinds of amateur inventors out there who might do something like this quite sincerely, deluded of course, but actually convinced that they'd found a solution to the ventilator crisis and just needed some additional funds to take it over the top. Menard isn't one of these people. Not with comments like this on the website;
Our Team & Mission

Inspired By COVID-19

RoboBreath was built by an international team of engineers, doctors, scientists, designers, students, and entrepreneurs united together with one goal: To provide a simple, scalable, and effective ventilator design which would help ease the pressure from the struggling healthcare system, medical device manufacturers and supply chains, doctors, and patients.

Sounds impressive. Better than the real backstory of Menard throwing this together in somebody's garage. So give us some names Rob. Who are on this international team? Why is the only name on the entire website yours, a man with no medical, engineering, or scientific credentials? Rob certainly touts the expertise beating down his door in their eagerness to get onboard in this vital project. Click on the 'sponsors' link and you get this pdf;
Hello and Good day! I am Robert Menard, the Founder of the Robo-Breath team. Hi! On behalf of the team, I would like to thank the sponsors of this competition, and those providing their expertise in evaluating the projects. We know that you all must be very busy, especially with this crisis and we truly appreciate your time. We are enormously proud of our achievements in designing and building a working prototype in such a short period of time. We are very happy with our design, and the philosophy behind it. Instead of trying to redesign the wheel so to speak, we looked at ventilators used during past wars, and then sought to replicate those designs in function but using modern technologies and manufacturing methods. We also understand the parameters of the challenge, and the need for a safe and working model which can be made onsite or easily and cheaply manufactured and distributed quickly and efficiently. Although some of our key team members are involved with the manufacturing and development of medical instruments the rest are kinda new to this, and although we wish to win this challenge, far more importantly, we also want to save lives as soon as possible and do our part as caring Makers, Engineers and Doctors. Towards those ends, we have reached out to manufacturers and product developers and we have secured both enormous interest and support. For instance, our design uses standard toilet plungers for a proof of concept prototype, but there are certain problems with those. We like that it does not put more strain on the medical industry supply chain, and is an elegant solution, worthy of at least two MacGyver Awards. But we did encounter problems. So we reached out to the manufacturers of said plungers, and shared with them our design and project and they became very excited about being able to help. So much so they have retooled and are designing a bellow which will address the problems we encountered with the standard issue models, and will provide up to 400,000 repetitive cycles. Our goal is to help them design one which is a composite of kevlar and silicone rubber which can easily have a life of 2,000,000 cycles. We are also reaching out to manufacturers of injection molded equipment who can help us pump out key components in very quick order. We will also rely in part on their engineering expertise and employ them to help us through the next redesign phase. It will be smaller, cheaper, easier, safer and faster to produce. Further to our goals, and recognizing the fundamental problems with using Arduino and putting someone’s life in jeopardy using those parts, we have reached out to and received interest from an electronics manufacturing and design company who specializes in custom military and aeronautical grade circuit boards with multiple redundancies and protections. I am very confident they can very easily help us in making a professional grade ventilator circuit board dedicated to patient safety and proper functionality with multiple redundancies. Finally, we have some interested backers, who if we make it to the third round, will provide the needed funding to finish the development, complete testing, secure the required approvals, and help with the manufacturing and distribution. For all of these reasons, we sincerely hope for and humbly request passage to the third phase. We are confident you will not be disappointed.
Sincerely, Robert Menard For Team Robo-Breath

So Rob. If:
Towards those ends, we have reached out to manufacturers and product developers and we have secured both enormous interest and support.
So we reached out to the manufacturers of said plungers, and shared with them our design and project and they became very excited about being able to help. So much so they have retooled and are designing a bellow . . . .

And
Finally, we have some interested backers, who if we make it to the third round, will provide the needed funding to finish the development, complete testing, secure the required approvals, and help with the manufacturing and distribution.

Why isn't anyone in this vast array of manufacturing, developing, and engineering enterprises you claim are "very excited" to join your project willing to cut a cheque for the trivial amount of pocket change you say you need to complete the Robo-Breath, or at least get it to that third round? Why the Gofundme Begging bowl? Are toilet plungers and Canadian Tire sundries too expensive for your sponsors to finance? If they're not actually willing to cough up any money what makes them sponsors?

There is actually no real information on the website, just Menard's completely unsupported statements and claims. But, to be fair I can't argue with this comment;
We are enormously proud of our achievements in designing and building a working prototype in such a short period of time.

It was thrown together by Menard last weekend, can't beat that for speed. But I see a problem with the "working prototype" claim. A working prototype means, outside of Menard's GoFundMe world, a working device that carries out the functions it was designed to perform. In this case a prototype ventilator which, while it may or may not be practical, is developed to the point that it is ready for testing on human volunteers. All that Rob's weekend of work has actually given us is a pair of toilet plungers chugging up and down. I noticed that Rob failed to include a link to the video of that wheezing contraption on the website. I can see his point, why show potential donors how pathetic the Robo-Breath actually is?

I'd said in a prior post that I was willing to accept that Menard might actually believe in this Rube Goldberg device. I'm retracting that comment. All that bombastic bullshit on the website shows that this is just another typical Menard scheme. Like his hydroponic garden the only purpose of the Robo-Breath is to create a MacGuffin to support another donation ploy. In the end all of his schemes end up as excuses for the begging bowl. Even his beloved NinjaGoat became the vehicle for a donation campaign although, if I remember correctly, he only wanted $5,000 for that one. But I'll agree that the goat could have been finished to meet Menard's goals for it. It would have been useless, essentially just a remote-controlled toy, but it would have worked. But the Robo-Breath is just a cynical farce.

But, Rob, you can easily prove me wrong and show that your project is totally legitimate! You talk about an international team of dedicated professionals, engineers, doctors, scientists, designers, students, all eagerly contributing their time and knowledge in a joint effort to make this device a reality. Usually such people, if they voluntarily work on such a noble endeavor and are proud to be associated with it, crave some recognition, they want the world to know about their efforts. So tell us who they are, give us their names and credentials rather than just the totally unsupported claims you make on the website.

And a suggestion Rob. If you're trying to impress people with your professional expertise and knowledge try to avoid casual slang English. Using phrases like "kinda" and "pump out"in your plea isn't going to give the big money donors you crave any confidence.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
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Post by AnOwlCalledSage »

TheRambler wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:38 pm Well worth reading this article in The Spectator:
For those without access (and not pasting the whole article to preserve their right to subscribers, but as fair use in reporting news and critical commentary) this is the last paragraph.
To put it simply, we do not know how many lives ventilators could or will save in the UK. It seems that at least two-thirds of attempts to stave off death with their use will fail in the short term. Of the remaining third, we do not know how many will be successful in the medium or long term. This doesn’t quite seem like a convincing rationale to shut down the British economy, redirect previous manufacturing output towards ventilators and suspend civil liberties to give us more time for the attempt. And those bemoaning the government's failure to demand more and more ventilators should pause for a moment and ask themselves whether that is really the right solution.
It should also be noted, for non-UK readers, that The Spectator is a mainly right wing magazine that has been responsible for publishing "contrarian" click-bait on the subject of coronavirus with several of their contributors advocating the "well the old will die soon anyway so why should they be allowed to affect my share portfolio" school of thought, so perhaps not as neutral an editorial decision to publish as it first appears to be.
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Post by longdog »

To put it simply, we do not know how many lives ventilators could or will save in the UK.
Nice attitude there... A combination of "I pulled this directly out of my arse" and "We I don't know how many lives it will save so we they shouldn't bother trying".
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SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
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Post by Gregg »

AndyK wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:43 pm
wserra wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:05 pm MIT is working on the same thing - a simple, relatively quickly- and easily-made ventilator that will assist a patient's breathing without killing him. The key is the rubber duck.

Now, let's see - Menard or MIT?
I prefer the MIT approach. Possibly biased towards them -- one of my alma maters.
Pfft, MIT? "The Vocational School down the road" :)

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Post by Dr. Caligari »

Because Harvard students can't count, and MIT students can't read.
That's an old, old joke. I saw it posted by the 10-items-or-less line at a supermarket in Cambridge, Mass. in 1975.
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Post by Gregg »

Uh hmmp....

My Actual undergraduate BAS is in Mathematics. I'm a first generation Quant.
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Post by aesmith »

Here's an actual low tech ventilator project.
https://www.gtech.co.uk/ventilators
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Post by Burnaby49 »

Menard might have to find another way to save the world. The response to his $100,000 GoFundMe campaign, purportedly to develop his Robo-Breath bathroom appliance ventilator, has been somewhat underwhelming. In the three days the campaign has been up and running he's received two donations totaling $22. Just enough for a case of beer with a few bucks left over. However even that total is suspect. The first donation, for $10, was anonymous. I suspect that was Menard trying to get the ball rolling. His past GoFundme campaigns have always seemed to start with an anonymous donation.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs