Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Moderator: Burnaby49

Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

I hope that the forum residents can provide me with some guidance on a point that I have stewed over for some time.

As I suspect most of you are aware, in Canada the “Freeman-on-the-Land” movement appears to be the predominate ‘flavour’ of anti-state pseudolegal resistance. The prominent gurus of this movement are Robert Arthur Menard and Dean Clifford. Freeman concepts were principally popularized via the World Freeman Society website and forums, though the now defunct FreeManitoba group also made a major contribution.

There are Canadians who call themselves “Sovereign Citizens”, but they are somewhat rare. The other more successful Canadian promoters of anti-state authority concepts fall into the “DeTax Movement”, particularly Russell Porisky, but they have quite discrete ideas that are very distinct from the Freemen.

For some time I have been curious as to whether there are actually conceptual innovations specific to the Freeman-on-the-Land movement, and that are distinct from the precursor U.S. Sovereign Citizen schemes. What I have done below is outline what I believe are the integral, optional, and prohibited memes in the Freeman-on-the-Land scheme. What would be very helpful to me is if those who are more familiar with the Sovereign Citizen movement could identify distinguishing aspects of these two belief sets.

I note in advance that my attempt to ‘distill out’ the Freeman-on-the-Land scheme is almost certainly an approximation. I don’t think I’m saying anything shocking when I observe that Freeman will proclaim utterly contradictory and illogical ideas, and incorporate bits from practically any conspiracy or counter-culture belief set.

Foundational Beliefs:
  • 1. Governments are corporations and only have the same legal authority as any other corporation, ie. none unless you enter into a contract with the government.

    2. Rules in legislation are strictly optional and can only be enforced if one consents to be subject to legislation. Consent is via contract. Legislation is a form of contract law.

    3. An individual has two aspects: a physical “flesh and blood” aspect and a non-corporeal aspect that for convenience I will call a “Strawman”. The Strawman is ‘attached’ to a flesh and blood person by a birth certificate, which is a kind of contract with the government/corporation. (Alternatively, a social insurance number has the same role.)

    4. By default, an individual is subject to legislation as the Strawman acts as a link between the individual and government-made legislation. This linkage is via contract law.

    5. An individual can sever the Strawman link by voluntarily disavowing the Strawman and associated contracts. Severance is achieved by sending a document demanding that step to government actors. Most commonly this document is named a “Notice of Understanding and Intent, and Claim of Right”.

    6. A contract may state as a term that failure to reply within a period of time constitutes acceptance.

    [Note – this rule is necessary to make the Notice of Understanding and Intent, and Claim of Right documents work.]

    7. Everyone, including corporations and governments, is subject to a kind of law called “Common Law”. Common Law is a freestanding collection of legal concepts independent of court judgments and legislation. Common Law is derived from older or ancient sources, is a kind of natural law, and is defined by texts such as Black’s Law Dictionary (older versions), various collections of legal maxims, and the Magna Carta.

    8. Criminal Law is a part of the Common Law, but is not defined by legislation. Criminal Law is restricted to acts that have already caused harm to other individuals or property.

    [Note – Freemen do not seem to have a clear position on whether government (as corporations), police, and courts can enforce the Criminal Law facet of the Common Law. Freemen certainly talk about doing that kind of thing themselves, via Common Law police and courts, however they do not seem to have actually taken steps to implement these entities, though see the “C3PO” scheme promoted by Robert Menard: http://c3po.ca ]

    9. Courts derive their authority three ways:
    • a) by legislation when an individual is still subject to the Strawman link,

      b) by mutual agreement of parties who have agreed by contract that the court will mediate their dispute, and

      c) to enforce the Criminal Law aspect of the Common Law.
    [Note – arguably ‘c’ is controversial, see point 8 above.]
Optional Beliefs:
  • 1. The Strawman is associated with some kind of secret bank account that can be accessed by Accept for Value / Redemption techniques.

    [Note – Accept for Value seems to have been popular earlier in the Freeman movement’s evolution but since no one ever could get it to work this idea has fallen into disrepute. It still shows up, of course, given the tempting nature of free stuff.]

    2. It is possible to restrict state action by contract, where state action is not a response to the Criminal Law facet of Common Law. This leads to the Fee Schedule contracts that are directed to state actors and impose various fines for unauthorized (ie. not-Common Law) state actions.

    [Note – I have rated this as an optional belief as it is not integral to the Freeman scheme for escaping from state (contract) control. In fact, use of Fee Schedule contracts appears to be nearly universal among Freemen.]

    3. It is easy to accidentally re-contract with the government and restore government authority. It is therefore important to avoid any agreement or cooperation with state authorities or the courts.

    [Note - I have never seen any clear explanation of whether this would ‘restore’ the Strawman link, or is some kind of separate phenomenon that results from a new contract. This belief appears principally as an explanation of why a Freeman who has supposedly unshackled himself via the Notice of Understanding and Intent, and Claim of Right document was nevertheless subject to state and/or court authority.]

    4. Unilaterally disavowing oneself of rules and obligations that flow by the 'Strawman link' does not affect the requirement that governments and government actors continue their legislation-based obligations to the Freeman.

    [Note - Naturally this is totally illogical given that Freemen claim the 'Strawman link' is contractual. Severing the contract should seem to nullify state obligation to the now-Freeman. But of course it doesn't.]
Rejected Beliefs:
  • 1. Freemen do not believe that governments derive their authority from Admiralty Law.

    [Of course, Admiralty Law and Military Law motifs show up in Freeman materials and arguments, but logically they have no place in the basic belief set, with the possible exception that one could conflate Admiralty Law and contract law as being the same thing, except that Freemen see contract law as a the facet of Common Law.]

    2. Freemen do not appear to explicitly derive the Common Law from religious authority or concepts.

    [Note - Again, it often comes up.]
As a starting point for discussion, it seems to me that items 3 to 5 on the Foundational Belief list are unique to the Freeman-on-the-Land movement, and not reflected in Sovereign Citizen concepts. Any thoughts on that?

As a final proviso, my observations of the UK Freeman branch seems to show that they are evolving some novel ideas that relate to debts, money, and banking. Otherwise, I think this summary applies to them as well.

Very much looking forward to any thoughts and comments by this learned company! Please feel free to suggest other memes that belong on any of the three Freeman concept lists.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
fortinbras
Princeps Wooloosia
Posts: 3144
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 4:50 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by fortinbras »

I suspect that Canadian nincompoops are less likely to adopt the claim of being Sovereign simply because that word is used often enough in Canadian schools, newspapers, etc., to identify Queen Elizabeth 2d.

No matter what they call themselves, these people share the notion that they can reject the authority of the police and govt, especially as regards driving and taxation. They seem to believe that by describing themselves in a certain way they become immune or invisible to the authorities.
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by notorial dissent »

I will have to go with SMS Möwe on this. I'm sure there is some significance, at least in some certain minds, as to the differences between these two terms, although I have more often than not seen our domestic varieties use them pretty much interchangeably down here.

I still find it hard to fathom that the term "Sovereign Citizen " even appears north of the border since the dominions really don't have anything that would even lead to that concept, and in truth I suspect most of the users are of the variety who import their crazy from below the border, being woefully short on originality on their own. I can't remember off the top of my head the ex-pat nut job, Warman???, who moved up north to shill his particular brand of tax crazy and kept right on using US terms and even statutory references for his exploits.

The “Freeman-on-the-Land” on the land concept, I can see having some validity, or at least meaning, up north, although not much, and certainly not to the extent that they want to credit it. It is more of an ancient medieval subtext, that we don't really have down here, since that kind of society never really existed here in more than a pale pale shadow.

The point is, at least I think, that if you asked any of our local loons, they wouldn't give you a real answer either, any more than when pressed they can tell you what "common law" is other than it is supreme and better than statutory law.

The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Judge Roy Bean
Judge for the District of Quatloosia
Judge for the District of Quatloosia
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 6:04 pm
Location: West of the Pecos

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Judge Roy Bean »

Once again I offer my assessment of the purveyors of this kind of nonsense (without regard to the border):

Dogs chase cars; doesn't mean they know how to drive.

:wink:
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
The world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy.
The Devil Makes Three
Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Thank you for your comments, fortinbras and notorial dissent.

It may be that my attempt to disentangle these two categories is entirely futile, nevertheless I find myself drawn to attempt to understand how these unusual ideas have developed and evolved - I can't resist constructing phylogenies. Further, it does seem to me that there are distinctions between their phantasmal methodologies and beliefs, and that warrants study.

If nothing else, I want to be able to explain to others what is different between Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs, if anything.

I think you are referring to Eldon Warman, notorial dissent. His material is located on the DetaxCanada website (http://www.detaxcanada.org/), which probably could trigger an epileptic seizure with rapid scrolling. His ideas may have evolved somewhat over time, as older case law seems to indicate he simply held the concept that "persons" for government and tax purposes means "not-humans", but since has adopted various bits of what I would call Freeman belief, such as the Strawman concept. Frankly, his webpage and its contents are an almost incoherent mess.

I don't know if this would help, but I have some materials from what I would identify as a group of Canadian "Sovereign Citizens":

http://michaelearl.com/
http://newcommerce.me/DEMAND_STIPULATIONS
http://newcommerce.me/sites/default/fil ... ule4-1.pdf
http://newcommerce.me/sites/default/fil ... 2Bearl.pdf
http://newcommerce.me/sites/default/fil ... schulz.pdf

The latter four documents are all linked to the first "michaelearl.com" website.

As a note in passing, I know very little about this group aside that one of the persons who signed the two fee schedules, a "Sawyer Robison", is presently facing trial for attempted first degree murder, first degree murder, and various weapon offences. Those charges flow from an incident where RCMP officers attempted to search a residence occupied by Sawyer Robison and his uncle Brad Clarke. This led to gunfire, and the RCMP officers were injured but retreated. Robison fled, and Clarke was subsequently found dead.

I infer from the current charges that the police theory is that Clarke was killed by Robison, though media reports claim that a forensic analysis suggests Clarke killed himself after being wounded by the RCMP officers:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... atter.html

Robison surrendered three days later. When Robison's truck was recovered it was found to contain a 50 cal. sniper rifle, with ammo stashed nearby. A weapon of this kind is absolutely prohibited in Canada.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by notorial dissent »

SMS Möwe I quite understand where you are coming from, and anything you can find or come up with to help delineate the differences would be appreciated, as I freely admit I don't see their distinctions either.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Paul

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Paul »

Once again I offer my assessment of the purveyors of this kind of nonsense (without regard to the border):

Dogs chase cars; doesn't mean they know how to drive.
Not that I would ever argue with a judge, but this nonsense reminds me more of the old joke, "Why do [insert your least-favorite nationality or ethnicity here] dogs have flat noses?"
Chados
Pirates Mate
Pirates Mate
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:10 am
Location: Somewhere...over the Rainbow

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Chados »

Möwe-

Frankly, I don't think that there *is* a difference between the Freeman and the Sovereign. They both descend from the Posse Comitatus of the 1960s through the farm and savings & loan crises of the 1980s, through the "common-law-courts" and "Patriot" movements of the 1990s, to today's sovereign/freeman/common-law-courts revivalist/neo-Patriot movements of today. You see a lot of variations, like the Moors, for example, but that tired old strawman stuff is the core of it all and that goes back to the Posse. You see less of the Admiralty/gold-fringe-flag stuff outside the U.S. because of the way the traditions of the courts work. But if you read the arguments Canadian Freemen put out, they even cite to the U.S. Constitution. It's all a slightly different spin on the same tired old crapola. :beatinghorse:
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by notorial dissent »

I have to agree with Chados, in the few instances where I have seen an attempt at drawing a differentiation between them, it has mostly been one of semantics and not actuality. Largely, I think, because they have no more idea of a difference between them than they have of what "common law" actually is, but it sounds magic.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
redbird

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by redbird »

notorial dissent wrote:SMS Möwe I quite understand where you are coming from, and anything you can find or come up with to help delineate the differences would be appreciated, as I freely admit I don't see their distinctions either.
unfortunately i was suckered into believing all the crap about the strawman and even did the Tim Turner paperwork.....i finally pulled my head out of my rearend and now i want to warn others about this BS
fortinbras
Princeps Wooloosia
Posts: 3144
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 4:50 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by fortinbras »

My impression is that Freemen seem to think that shooting first and not bothering to ask questions is a solution to their problems. They have a sort of wild mountain man attitude of living as they wish without acknowledging any authority, even the law, settling matters with a gun.

The SovCits, on the other hand, seem to have a slight respect for the law but only on their own comic book version of it, and they insist on their completely wrong notions even against judges and courts. Their one explanation for their court losses is that the judge was crooked; they never concede that their own legal notions were wrong. But they seem less inclined than Freemen to reach for a gun.

Both groups think that they can spin money out of thin air, that they can ignore court decisions that go against them, and, of course, that they are never wrong.
Jeffrey
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 3076
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:16 am

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Jeffrey »

My own interpretation is that "freeman on the land" is usually old guy living on his on house or farm and refusing to pay taxes etc, leave me alone type of thing.

SovCit is more, I want to be part of society and have the benefits of it but not pay taxes or follow the rules.

But I agree it's fuzzy and there's overlap and largely irrelevant distinction.
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by notorial dissent »

fortinbras, I have to admit that from my admittedly limited experience, wholly intentional, that you seem to pretty much sum it up. The consistent factor I have noted in all the individuals I have had contact with is that their critical discrimination/judgment function is completely off line, and they all equally share the same attitude that if it came off the internet or from their guru it is absolutely right, and if it comes from any one that might actually know, it is automatically suspect or wrong.

Maybe it is that the population density isn't quite the same here, but it seems that the two are pretty well blended here, more Sovcit than Freeman, but they they all seem to spout pretty much the same drivel.

I think the best summation is that they think they can do pretty much do anything they want. Around here, the Sovcits are about as apt to go for a gun as not, which is another reason I tend to give them as wide a berth as possible. I have known some who were just amusing, some who were just middle of the road crazy, and some who are just plain damn scary.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Re: Sovereign Citizen vs. Freeman-on-the-Land beliefs

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Just a brief note - I have located a media report that the murder charge against Sawyer Robison, an Alberta OPCA affiliate whom I discuss earlier in this thread, has been dropped:
The attempted murder charges relating to two injured RCMP officers and various firearms offences remain live. This report also provides some general background on this incident. I presume the evidence referenced in the media report indicates that Robison's dead uncle killed himself after the firefight with the RCMP.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]