The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Moderator: Burnaby49

Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8221
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Burnaby49 »

Fmotlgroupie wrote:Great report, Burnaby! You really are our eyes and ears on the front line. I wonder if TPTB should add "chief correspondent" to your titles...

As an aside mischief (damaging or interfering with the enjoyment of property) would be the correct charge for breaking into a car if theft can't be proven. Breaking and Entering in Canada is only into a place (building, compound, etc) and requires at least the intent to commit an indictable offence. The sad thing is that if he was caught once he's sure to have broken into hundreds of cars, and will be back at it as soon as the ink is dry on his sentence.
Maybe not. Guy is 38 with no priors. A pathetic case. As he tells it a truck driver who got hooked on meth when he started taking stimulants to keep awake when driving graveyard. Been in rehab and counseling and fell off the wagon and started breaking into cars. Now unemployed and wants to get back into driving.

That explains mischief, I don't know enough about the world of B&E to know the nuances of the applicable charges so I was wondering "why mischief?", seemed odd.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
LordEd
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by LordEd »

One day of jail time already served when he was arrested in Victoria, one year probation, 25 hours community service, and a $100 fine.
So a year of 'keeping the peace' and helping the community. The $100 fine is probably less than chief's fees.
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by notorial dissent »

They must have decided this bunch was potentially disruptive or dangerous if they went to the shielded court room, and doesn't sound like they had many of their former adherents with them this time either.

This is beginning to read like an old Newhart sketch about the three idiot brothers, "This is my brother, Dave, and Dave.", and I'm not far convinced this bunch doesn't qualify.

I'm impressed that Simpson made the deal he did, shows way more common sense than I had thought any of that group possessed, and it sounds like he came out lucky at a day and probation, and prohibiting contact was really a good move on his part.

Nice to see Chief Crock getting his just and due recognition.

Sounds like Lange has let his inner dumb take control, and was really trying to try the judge's patience, and the judge wasn't having any. Apparently his "special" appearance wasn't quite special enough. Definitely appears he wants to remain as a guest of the Crown, as I doubt he'll grow any sense over the weekend.

I can't say that I think this bunch is not smart enough not to have done something really really stupid while out playing. Maybe a weekend in jail will take some of it out of them, but I doubt it, the judge is probably going to have a long day on Mon if that is when they are due back.

Good reporting. At least some headway is being made if only that two of them are now guests of the Crown, at least they aren't out Peace Officering or whatever it was they thought they were going to do.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
ArthurWankspittle
Slavering Minister of Auto-erotic Insinuation
Posts: 3755
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Quatloos Immigration Control

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

"Chief Peripatetic Correspondent of the Northern Wastelands"?
"There is something about true madness that goes beyond mere eccentricity." Will Self
Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Merely a brief note of appreciation to Burnaby49 for his always excellent reporting from the Vancouver area courts. It's really a pity we don't have the resources/opportunity to collect more data of this kind, because I think it adds another layer of understanding of the people we study, and the strange processes that lead them into such trouble and crisis.

Something a bit more specific - I think it's a little sad that the chorus who urged the Nanaimo Three Five Three to fight on, suggested tactics, and promised support, of course actually never show for the hearings themselves. I'd suggest the OPCA mob is out busy working on important things, but ... well, you know.

So I'm not entirely surprised that Dave Smith actually wouldn't mind seeing a known face - even one who is not necessarily a friend, but at least an interested third party. And the other point, whatever else, I think many in the Canadian OPCA community are becoming aware that the commentators on this forum attempt to be honest and accurate.

(Which is more than we can say about certain other folk.) (Stating the obvious.)

Looking forward to day two, otherwise known as 'actually commencing the trial.'

SMS Möwe

P.S. I checked the British Columbia Courts Online database. It reports that the proceeding against Andrew Winston Simpson concluded with a guilty plea on Feb. 28, 2014 to the personating a police officer charge. Simpson was sentenced to one day in jail, one year probation, and a $50 victim surcharge. David August Lange and Bradley David Richard Smith are identified as in custody.
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
Jeffrey
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 3076
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:16 am

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Jeffrey »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJO3i5p9 ... age#t=4368'

Now that we have the first guilty plea, let's remember Menard repeatedly stated that anyone can pretend to be a peace officer and that his original scheme proposed having the fake peace officers armed with guns.
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8221
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Burnaby49 »

I checked my notes and I've got a $100 fine recorded however, as I said, poor audio and they may have discussed $100 but settled on $50. As part of my culling operation I didn't explain the Victim Surcharge, can't say I really understand it myself. Something about a mandatory fine for individuals convicted of criminal offenses to be put into a fund to compensate victims in general. Frankly it seems stupid. The sadsack meth addict convicted of mischief got, I believe, a $200 surcharge which he has as much chance of paying off as me getting accepted for the Mars One mission. Judge had a hissy-fit about that by the way. Crown suggested a nominal $1 surcharge and judge wasn't having any of that nonsense. Judge called it a "horrific crime" (two cars broken into horrific?) and said that while other judges might resort to, and I quote "skullduggery and trickery" to let criminals off the hook he wasn't playing that game.

As always the difficulty in these postings isn't what to put in but what to leave out. I had a mass of information that while possibly interesting wasn't directly relevant in what was already a long post. That's why I didn't mention the horrible burrito I had at lunch, won't go there again. During the day I had chats with Crown Council, Duty Council, an RCMP officer who futilely waited all day vain to testify, Smith, Simpson, and others but left almost all of it out. Also left out the story of the third miscreant with a hearing prior to our gang, an eighteen year old (seventeen at time of offense) charged with carelessly letting his unlicensed dogs roam loose. That one actually potentially serious. Daisy and Duke were untrained Cane Corsos, described in court as quasi pit bulls. I looked the breed up afterwards. Described as even tempered, reserved, calm, quiet and stable but not these two! got worked up into a semi-frenzy, tore up a woman's handbag and were almost shot by the police before being subdued by an animal control officer. The teenager, again unemployed, was also assessed a Victim Surcharge. He sat behind me while waiting for his turn and actually fell asleep.

I expect a long boring week of RCMP and others testifying only temporarily enlivened by Smith acting up before he ends up at the far side of a video feed with the sound off. Given the government resources put into this the end results seem disappointingly disproportionate. Two of the defendants stayed, third with a one day sentence, and (I'm guessing) the remaining two when found guilty given, say, thirty days. Take Simpson getting charge 2, obstructing a police officer, stayed. In the judge's words that was Simpson "wrestling with six officers" in the Victoria Court when he was arrested. He spent the night in the slammer and that night was used as time served on Charge 1 so he could walk out with no further detention after his plea bargain. Hardly seemed worth the bother of detaining him in the first place.

At least our boys will get a new audience member for a day next week. Mrs. Burnaby49 wants to come! Not because she has any interest in our case specifics but she's never been to a court and wants to see what it is like.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
Fmotlgroupie
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:09 pm

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Fmotlgroupie »

The victim surcharge has been the subject of some is cushion in my part of the woods. Until this past fall it was optional, and judges in their wisdom invariably waived it, often without even giving reasons. With the new changes there is a mandatory surcharge of $100 for summary offences and $200 for indictable offences. In the same range as a speeding ticket, so you'd think that it wasn't an egregious abuse if these poor criminally convicted offenders. Except that some of the judges concluded that it was, and decided to get around it. If there is a fine then the surcharge is a percentage of the fine instead of the fixed amount (I imagine this might be appropriate for tax offenders, for example). Some of our local judges then have started giving out $1 fines (as your crown suggested). to "stay within" the exact wording of the law while ignoring its intent entirely, with the result of some serious domestic violence getting resolved by $1 fines. He'll of a message to society about the rule of law, much less the relative value of domestic violence vs, say, a cup of coffee :brickwall:
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8221
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Burnaby49 »

Just found something that I should have put in my trial posting but forgot until I was rummaging through my backpack this morning and found some paperwork that Simpson gave me.

I had a talk with Simpson during the lunch break just before court resumed and (unknown to me) after he had made his plea bargaining deal with the Crown. He said he planned to continue his efforts "in commerce", whatever that means to him, and gave me a photocopied sheet that apparently proved his innocence. It was a printout of a page from the Government of Canada's Justice Laws Website. He highlighted part 15 of the document, an excerpt from the Criminal Code of Canada;
Obedience to de facto law

15. No person shall be convicted of an offence in respect of an act or omission in obedience to the laws for the time being made and enforced by persons in de facto possession of the sovereign power in and over the place where the act or omission occurs.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 15.
Apparently a complete defense being ignored by the corrupt courts. I think part 16 more relevant, at least for Smith and Lange;
Defence of mental disorder

16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.

Marginal note:Presumption
(2) Every person is presumed not to suffer from a mental disorder so as to be exempt from criminal responsibility by virtue of subsection (1), until the contrary is proved on the balance of probabilities.

Marginal note:Burden of proof
(3) The burden of proof that an accused was suffering from a mental disorder so as to be exempt from criminal responsibility is on the party that raises the issue.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 16;R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 185(F);1991, c. 43, s. 2.
I suspect that Simpson's regret and remorse for his actions may not be as deep as the judge seemed to think.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... lText.html
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
Jeffrey
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 3076
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:16 am

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Jeffrey »

It probably doesn't need to be stated that "in commerce" is code for fee schedules and liens.
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8221
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Burnaby49 »

Jeffrey wrote:It probably doesn't need to be stated that "in commerce" is code for fee schedules and liens.
While that is a given with these guys the part that intrigued me is who he intends to bill for fees and subject to liens. If he's thinking of the judge he won't be getting a one day slap on the wrist next time.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8221
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Burnaby49 »

Another omission on my part. In my trial post I said;
Judge asked Simpson if he had anything further to say and he obviously had some comment about Chief Rock because the judge asked the Crown (paraphrasing) who the hell was this Hajistahenhway that Simpson was babbling about? Counsel said he was some guy pretending to be a notary but wasn't.
However there may be readers who don't know the background. We have a very extensive discussion thread on the Chief here;

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9377

The Chief has, in the past, pretended to be a notary, a World Notary no less, and cooked up documents for our local Freeman population. Since the only place that the Chief has the right to notarize documents is in his own head the Society of Notaries Public of British Columbia has been trying to get him to stop. On November 29th, 2013 the Supreme Court of British Columbia issued an order telling the Chief to stop. I attended the hearing and wrote it up in the Chief's discussion thread. No idea if he has defied the order or not.

The Chief has come up at every Freeman court hearing I've attended because they have all filed bizarre documents supplied by and notarized by the Chief. Unilateral contracts, Constructive Notices, fake bonds, you name it.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
LordEd
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by LordEd »

Burnaby49 wrote:He highlighted part 15 of the document, an excerpt from the Criminal Code of Canada;
Obedience to de facto law

15. No person shall be convicted of an offence in respect of an act or omission in obedience to the laws for the time being made and enforced by persons in de facto possession of the sovereign power in and over the place where the act or omission occurs.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 15.
Heard this argument once before. I refuse to accept their use of it because 1. it specifically says person, which they deny being, and 2. it is contained within the criminal code, which they deny applies.
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7507
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by The Observer »

Burnaby49 wrote:The Chief has, in the past, pretended to be a notary, a World Notary no less, and cooked up documents for our local Freeman population.
I have noted that the Chief has failed to respond to the thread dedicated to him here in quite a while, which seems to coincide with the court order issued against him, as well as the number of trials of his Freemen customers. I haven't decided if this is because the Chief is too embarrassed to appear here to explain why his documents aren't helping the Freemen on trial. It could be that he is just too busy trying to round up another crowd of Freemen that will pay him for his rubber stamp appearing on their scrap paper.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8221
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Burnaby49 »

Your diligent reporter will be in court tomorrow morning to see how Lange and Smith act after a weekend's incarceration but I won't be there Tuesday. My internet is acting up, I'm losing the connection 2-3 times a day and increasing. Turning the modem on and off currently gets it going again so I assume that I just need a new one however Telus, my provider, wants to send someone to take a look at it. They could come tomorrow but I want to see if things get back on track after Friday's antics. If they do then Tuesday will probably be just testimony.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Burnaby49 wrote:Just found something that I should have put in my trial posting but forgot until I was rummaging through my backpack this morning and found some paperwork that Simpson gave me.

I had a talk with Simpson during the lunch break just before court resumed and (unknown to me) after he had made his plea bargaining deal with the Crown. He said he planned to continue his efforts "in commerce", whatever that means to him, and gave me a photocopied sheet that apparently proved his innocence. It was a printout of a page from the Government of Canada's Justice Laws Website. He highlighted part 15 of the document, an excerpt from the Criminal Code of Canada;
Obedience to de facto law

15. No person shall be convicted of an offence in respect of an act or omission in obedience to the laws for the time being made and enforced by persons in de facto possession of the sovereign power in and over the place where the act or omission occurs.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 15.
Apparently a complete defense being ignored by the corrupt courts. ...
I've encountered this argument on a number of occasions, it seems most commonly applied by the Freeman-on-the-Land community but it may date back to Eldon Warman. In any case, this potential application of Criminal Code, s. 15 has not actually been rejected in any court decision of which I am aware, though it was at least mentioned in Szoo’ v. RCMP, 2011 BCSC 696 (http://canlii.ca/t/flngx) as part of the rationale why police action had been illegal, and therefore the police could be sued in damages.

Section 15 has not been the subject of much court comment - it just doesn't come up too often. There are a couple Supreme Court of Canada decisions which help indicate its application. The first is Garland v. Consumers' Gas Co., 2004 SCC 25, [2004] 1 SCR 629 (http://canlii.ca/t/1gzjn), where a private gas company was successfully sued for having charged illegal interest rates via "late fees" that it charged customers for overdue payments .The gas company argued it had been instructed by a government entity, a utility board, to order charge those fees. That was a "de facto" government authority, and so the gas company's misconduct would be sheltered by the s. 15 defence.

The answer was no. The intent of s. 15 is something quite different (paras 80-81):
... Consumers’ Gas is not a government official acting under colour of authority. While the respondent points to the Board orders as justification for its actions, this does not bring the respondent into the purview of the de facto doctrine because the case law does not support extending the doctrine’s application beyond the acts of government officials. The underlying purpose of the doctrine is to preserve law and order and the authority of the government. These interests are not at stake in the instant litigation. As a result, Consumers’ Gas cannot rely on the de facto doctrine to resist the plaintiff’s claim.

Furthermore, the de facto doctrine attaches to government and its officials in order to protect and maintain the rule of law and the authority of government. An extension of the doctrine to a private corporation that is simply regulated by a government authority is not supported by the case law and in my view does not further the underlying purpose of the doctrine. In Reference re Manitoba Language Rights, 1985 CanLII 33 (SCC), [1985] 1 S.C.R. 721, this Court held, at p. 756, that:
There is only one true condition precedent to the application of the doctrine: the de facto officer must occupy his or her office under colour of authority.

It cannot be said that Consumers’ Gas was a de facto officer acting under colour of authority when it charged LPPs to customers. Consumers’ Gas is a private corporation acting in a regulatory context, not an officer vested with some sort of authority. When charging LPPs, Consumers’ Gas is engaging in commerce, not issuing a permit or passing a by-law.
[Emphasis added.]

So, section 15 is not even intended to protect a private citizen who breaks the law - it is a defence made available to a government actor who attempts to enforce a law that is not authorized. Our friends in the OPCA community have entirely reversed the meaning of this provision. It would be of no use to Mr. Simpson, unless he could prove he had been authorized (incorrectly and illegally) to be a peace officer.

Ironically, section 15 is instead a defence for the RCMP officers who arrested the Nanaimo Five. If they had been wrong, and the Nanaimo Five were indeed real peace officers, then this provision would potentially shield those officers from criminal charges. Again - the OPCA community has got this provision backwards.

Further indication of the meaning of s. 15 and its intent is found in R. v. Finta, [1994] 1 SCR 701 (http://canlii.ca/t/1frvp), a case involving an alleged Hungarian war criminal. The main focus of the case is an exception to s. 15 which knocks it out if the defence is applied to a government officer/actor who is allegedly guilty of war crimes.

So, taken together, there is no real question that Criminal Code, s. 15 is of no assistance to a Canadian Sovereign Citizen/Freeman-on-the-Land. Assuming I'm wrong on that point, then this provision would still be a problem, if argued in court. Section 15 is clearly a defence, and only applies if a "de facto" (illegal/unauthorized) government authority exists. The accused would have to at least provide evidence to raise a possibility, an "air of reality", that the Canadian government is unauthorized before the defence would be considered. I am hard-pressed to see any basis for that - but of course I could be wrong.

My thoughts, for what they are worth.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Chief2k13 wrote:... I do thank you, you helped a fellows wife find out where her man was. So glad you guys are keeping tabs, gave piece of mind. ...
Am I the only one who is at least a little taken aback that there are spouses who may respond to the question: "Where is my beloved husband [x], [x] who has not come home today?", by checking Quatloos for arrest/detention data?

Now, make no mistake, I think it's great we're providing a valuable (though unanticipated) public service but really ...

Rates up there with Mr. Ream turning to us to find out when he was next scheduled to appear in court ...

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
Jeffrey
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 3076
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:16 am

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Jeffrey »

Hilfskreuzer Möwe wrote:Section 15 has not been the subject of much court comment - it just doesn't come up too often.
I suggest the reason it doesn't come up is that there's never been a de facto government in power in Canada. Is there some historical reason for a Section that essentially says you can't be convicted for following orders?

And dysfunctional relationships among SovCits if par for the course but I think that if you don't know where your husband is then he probably isn't "your man" anymore.
Fmotlgroupie
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:09 pm

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Fmotlgroupie »

Jeffrey wrote:
Hilfskreuzer Möwe wrote:Section 15 has not been the subject of much court comment - it just doesn't come up too often.
I suggest the reason it doesn't come up is that there's never been a de facto government in power in Canada. Is there some historical reason for a Section that essentially says you can't be convicted for following orders?
My understanding, and I really can't think where I got the idea, is that it was a relic of the civil wars and Jacobite rebellions in Britain and Ireland. The basic idea being that there's no point in imprisoning the whole bureaucracy if a new system of government is introduced. I don't think I'm creative enough to have come up with it, so it must have been written somewhere.
Hilfskreuzer Möwe
Northern Raider of Sovereign Commerce
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am
Location: R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 26W 22 R R R SS Voltaire 47N 31 2 [signal lost]

Re: The Nanaimo Three - Political Prisoners in Canada

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

The Supreme Court of Canada in Garland v. Consumers' Gas Co. points to this authority for the "De Facto" doctrine:
  • Constantineau, Albert. A Treatise on the De Facto Doctrine. Toronto: Canada Law Book, 1910.
Which is available here: https://archive.org/details/cu31924021941616

(I think it's pretty remarkable that a legal text which is over 100 years old is actually still relevant! Let along authoritative!)

(Good lord - the author must have been obsessed - this thing is almost 900 pages long!)

At page 10 the author indicates the De Facto Doctrine was formally recognized by Parliament in 1461 as a response to the War of the Roses. So there you go.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]