Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

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Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Our next subject is a British Columbia case that reports an unsuccessful attempt by a Barry A. Skrapec to avoid collection of an outstanding line of credit debt by the Royal Bank of Canada [“RBC”]:
I am going to discuss this case in some detailed for two reasons. First, it is one of the relatively few OPCA cases that was not collected in Meads v. Meads, 2012 ABQB 571. That is unfortunate, because the second reason why this case is important is that it discloses a debt elimination scheme that is commonly deployed by Freemen-on-the-Land / Sovereign Citizens in Canada, but which is not reported in detail in Meads v. Meads.

The decision is a transcript of an oral judgment, and as reported has quite a number of interjections by Barry Skrapec. The net result is a little disjointed, so I am taking the liberty of rearranging its order.

Skrapec was initially a good customer who then fell behind in his payments (paras. 8-17), but after a balance of $31,868.0 was not paid for five months RBC sued to collect.

Skrapec’s response has many familiar elements. First, he adopted the double/split person concept that BARRY A. SKRAPEC and Barry A. Skrapec were two different entities, and the latter was “agent” or “representative” for the former: paras. 20, 32, 61, 67, 69-70, 77. The double person meme, however, does not appear to be directly relevant to how Skrapec sought to avoid his debt. It appears that Justice Powers did not directly challenge the irrelevancy of this double identity and agency, but instead seems to have assumed this was in part due to the manner in which the style of cause for the case was prepared: para. 18. I won’t comment further on the double/split Skrapec.

The primary thrust of Skrapec’s response is two fold. First, Skrapec claimed that the line of credit was not properly documented:
  • para. 24: there was no:
    a certified true copy of a contract relating to the . . . account, showing proof that a true bill marked with value inked in blue upon its face and not a statement of the alleged owing or owed to the plaintiff.
    para. 25: RBC did not prove they are:
    ... the current holder in due course of an alleged original note of the unidentified aforementioned account.
    para. 35:
    It complains that the copy of the contract, the Royal credit line, is not the original, and asserts that the only contract in existence is that created by the documents that the defendant sent to the Royal Bank that I have referred to, and then cites a maxim of tacit consent, cited from Black's Law Dictionary, "He who does not deny admits". It also asserts that there is no proof of an alleged contract that has an amount owing, that nothing is due to the bank; there is no indebtedness to the bank, and states that it rebuts the claims of the Royal Bank.
Prior to the trial Skrapec had sent to the RBC a classic foisted unilateral contract, a “Conditional Acceptance upon Debt Verification”, naturally with fee schedule (para. 4), that stated Skrapec (or SKRAPEC) would acknowledge his debts provided he received what he identifies as the only valid documentation for the debt: paras. 33-39. As always, failure to reply means RBC admits no such debt exists.

RBC did not reply, and Skrapec sent the magic three “Notice of Default and Opportunity to Cure” and “Certificate of Dishonour” letters, and stated RBC was estopped from collecting its debt (paras. 34, 42)
NOTICE: ROYAL BANK OF CANADA shall have 10 days from the receipt of this certified letter to return all requests stipulated by agent Barry A Skrapec. Failure to return all requests by ROYAL BANK OF CANADA or its silence shall constitute Irrevocable Estoppel upon Failure to Produce Proof of Claim.

AND TAKE FURTHER NOTICE: An Irrevocable Estoppel created upon failure to Produce Proof of Claim or its non response by ROYAL BANK OF CANADA estops ROYAL BANK OF CANADA from all actions and or matters against the undersigned.
Justice Powers is clearly aware that Skrapec was getting this stuff from somewhere, concluded that RBC had provided adequate evidence to establish the contract and that Skrapec’s foisted unilateral contract had no effect on the outstanding debt:
[44] I accept that Barry the man, who appears as agent for Barry A. Skrapec, is earnest in the claims that he puts forward, as is the defendant, and thinks somehow that they have some effect at law. They do not.

[45] Barry the man says that he is not familiar with legalese. He obviously does not understand the law. These documents were created in some fashion. He tells me that he spent a lot of time putting them together, but there is no foundation for them. A contract is not created by simply sending off a document to somebody by registered mail or otherwise, telling them that if they do not respond in a certain fashion, then they are estopped from responding in the future. There is no contract created by the documents that Barry A. Skrapec or Barry the man sent to the Royal Bank or its agents.

[46] In this case, the Royal Bank has the obligation of proving its claim. It has to prove its contract, the line of credit. It has to prove that on the balance of probabilities; in other words, that it is more likely than not that that contract existed. The contract was dated 1999, appears to be signed, or the copy of it appears to be a copy of document signed by Barry A. Skrapec.



[50] The primary defence that is raised is that somehow, by sending the correspondence that I have referred to off to the bank or its agents by registered mail, that somehow some new contract has been created or in some fashion the bank is prevented from pursuing its claims. There, what is referred to as law are merely definitions and cites from Black's Law Dictionary. Black's Law Dictionary is just that; it is not law itself. It may refer to maxims that are sometimes referred to, but it is not the law.

[51] The fact that a letter is sent to the bank, registered or otherwise, demanding that the bank prove its claim in a specific way, does not oblige them to do that. He might just as well have asked the bank officers to dress in some specific costume and march down the street, if in fact the debts were owed. It does not mean they are required to do it.

[52] It refers to a demand that a contract with seals on it be produced, a contract that was witnessed by other people. That is not necessary. The bank has to prove it had a contract with BARRY A. SKRAPEC, and that they advanced money pursuant to that contract. They have to prove that on the balance of probabilities. They have not produced the original contract, because they do not appear to be able to find it, but they certainly produced what they say is a true copy from their bank records, and I accept that it is.



[61] In other words, BARRY A. SKRAPEC does not come forward and say, "Oh no, I paid a different amount. I paid more than that. I paid it all." BARRY A. SKRAPEC, through his agent, Barry the man, simply says, "They did not respond to my demands that they do certain things in a certain way." They were not required to.
There is no requirement for RBC to provide the original of a loan, the bank’s records are enough proof of the contractual arrangement: paras. 47, 53. It was not up to the bank to provide an independent audit record, if Skrapec did not like the evidence he could do that himself: paras. 47, 54. Skrapec made the common argument that without the original contract there would be no defence for him in the event the debt had been transferred (para. 48). Last, there's mom:
[49] Barry says that it is possible that this debt was paid by somebody else, perhaps BARRY A. SKRAPEC'S mother. Maybe she has the contract. There is no evidence of that. There is nothing to suggest that is even a possibility.
Justice Power correctly suspects an American connection to this scheme (paras. 62-63), particularly in light of the fact the Skrapec materials invoke U.S. legislation such as the U.C.C. (para. 38). While RBC sought solicitor and own client costs, these were denied but elevated costs were awarded: para. 76. In the post-Meads v. Meads context I suspect this case would have seen a solicitor and own client costs award.

Barry does try to put in one last word:
[69] I accept that Barry the man and BARRY A. SKRAPEC have worked diligently at this. I suspect they have gotten some advice from somebody; they probably have followed some form of precedents that they may have seen somewhere. They may have gotten guidance from somebody. It is hard to tell.

[70] Some of the things pleaded and alleged are remarkably similar to other cases that have come before the court. Again, often by people representing themselves, people who have very strong beliefs about whether they are or whether they should be referred to by a name or as a flesh‑and‑blood individual, or other concepts, not dissimilar arguments to this. But again, there is no basis in law for them. Somebody has put together a mish‑mash of maxims and comments that have barely any logic to them.

[71] BARRY SKRAPEC: There's God's law, sir.

[72] THE COURT: Sometimes those people refer to God's law on the basis that somehow it puts them outside the laws of Canada.

[73] This is a simple case of where somebody borrowed money, they had the benefit of that contract, and they have not paid it back. There is no merit in the law to the defence. There is no merit in Canadian law, in common sense, in logic, or even morally. They agreed to do something they did not do. BARRY A. SKRAPEC owes the bank the money.
RBC receives an award for the full amount, and a counterclaim based on the Skrapec fee schedule is rejected: paras. 74-75.

Skrapec’s subsequent appeal (Royal Bank of Canada v. Skrapec, 2012 BCCA 10: http://canlii.ca/t/fprkt) was denied:
[9] On this appeal the defendant has not identified any arguable issue or ground of appeal on which the judgment appealed from could be varied or set aside. To permit any further steps to be taken in the appeal would be to countenance an abuse of the Court’s process.
As noted, this case is particularly helpful in a Canadian context because it parses out the very common debt neutralization scheme where the lender is served a foisted unilateral contract that sets terms for proof of the debt, there are a set of letters that 'crystallize' the foisted agreement in the debtor's favour, and then the debtor attempts to enforce that ‘contract’ in court to estop debt collection.

I have tried to learn more about Skrapec, without success. He is not apparently affiliated with any known Freeman or Sovereign groups.

What I did discover via an obituary is that Skrapec’s sister, Candice Skrapec, is a noted criminologist who specializes in the study and interview of serial killers, including none other than Charles Manson! I suspect it would be very interesting to hear her perspective on her brother’s litigation and just how he had become enmeshed with these ideas.

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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by Burnaby49 »

Sovereigns, generally, don't seem the most financially solvent bunch. While the Royal Bank took home a favourable judgment collecting on it is another matter. I suspect that neither BARRY A. SKRAPEC nor Barry A. Skrapec have the capability of paying the debt off which might well be the reason he took this pre-doomed approach in the first place. A few more cases like this and the British Columbia courts may rethink the issue of awarding solicitor‑and‑own‑client costs.
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by grixit »

And a new sovereign argument is born. "Let the court please note that the bank president failed to tango down Birch Street in a gorilla suit as required, therefor the purported debt is void!"
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by Burnaby49 »

grixit wrote:And a new sovereign argument is born. "Let the court please note that the bank president failed to tango down Birch Street in a gorilla suit as required, therefor the purported debt is void!"
Frankly that is just a silly suggestion that has no hope of succeeding. As we all know with sovereigns the devil is in the details, you have to get everything just right. The required outfit is a pantomime horse.

As an aside the Royal Bank didn't seem too concerned about Skrapec's chances of winning. The bank could not locate the original loan contract so it proved its case with secondary records. In the decision the judge commented that he had asked the bank to do a more diligent search for the original contract but it hadn't bothered. Why waste time and effort on an already dead in the water case?
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by notorial dissent »

You forgot to mention that it has to be a GREEN bushy tail, details matter after all.

As an aside, doesn't Canada have a version of the digital signature act, where they would just pull a copy from the permanent microfilm of the contract as they would here to stand as evidence of the original contract?
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by LightinDarkness »

Mowe, as always I love reading your posts. Like I said before I don't always reply to them but you help me keep up to date on the international sov'run scene!

As I was looking at this I found the similarities between BARRY A SKRAPEC's sov'run estoppel magic and a wildly popular website called "Get Out of Debt Free" (GODF). GODF also tells people to use three magical letters using the same flawed understanding of legal concepts (UCC, estoppel, random maxims) and that when they get no reply after the third letter (sent over the course of a few weeks), by magic all their bills are wiped away.

See here: http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/Template-Letters

Of course, this doesn't ACTUALLY work but their forum is flooded with "success stories" which I am sure lures more gullible idiots into this. What happens is companies get these letters and do one of two things:
(1) They write off the debt as they clearly are dealing with a lunatic and its not worth their time - usually seen when these people default over debts in the $50-$500 range (which is really astounding when you think about it - is your credit worth so little your going to default on a bill for $50?).
(2) They realize they are dealing with fruitcakes and sell the debt to someone else or to the original company to avoid the hassle, and send the GODF people a letter telling them they are no longer collecting it but XXX company or YYY original creditor now has the account.

The most often response is (2), I've only seen a few (1)'s but they do post those occasionally. I guess (1)s are a win but of course such wins are due to essentially a collector deciding your not worth the hassle, not because the letters have any legal merit. Of course under (2) you haven't won at all, and (1) I guess you've won technically but your credit is now ruined. I recommend reading their success story forums for the giggles if your ever bored.

I am thinking our BARRY A SKRAPEC got his letters from this source. I really want to register on GODF now and post the parts of the decisions that clearly say this is gibberish and doesn't work. Unfortunately the way the judge handled the BARRY A SKRAPEC/Barry A Skrapec thing is going to give them something to claim victory on. I don't even know why they would entertain the guy by referring to him as if the straw man/real man thing existed.
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

LightinDarkness wrote:As I was looking at this I found the similarities between BARRY A SKRAPEC's sov'run estoppel magic and a wildly popular website called "Get Out of Debt Free" (GODF). GODF also tells people to use three magical letters using the same flawed understanding of legal concepts (UCC, estoppel, random maxims) and that when they get no reply after the third letter (sent over the course of a few weeks), by magic all their bills are wiped away.
I'd meant to mention this earlier, but I just wanted to pass along my thanks for pointing out this connection - I had not earlier noticed that parallel, very interesting.

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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by NIash »

LightinDarkness wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:52 am See here: http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/Template-Letters
Of course, this doesn't ACTUALLY work but their forum is flooded with "success stories" which I am sure lures more gullible idiots into this.
If there are Success stories, of course, people will go there and trust them blindly. That's why success stories are created for their greedy purposes.
Last edited by wserra on Mon May 29, 2023 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Bye, spammer
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by Burnaby49 »

That must be a Quatloos record. A gap of almost ten years between a posting and a response.
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by wserra »

Which implies another motive for the post. Generally, it's either (1) getting the reader to click on malware; (2) spam advertising; or (3) SEO. In this case, it appears to be (3). There is a tiny (size=1, too small to even click on) link edited into the original post. It links to a site for Whatsapp mods. Even though you can't see it - I could only see it by using the "edit" option that the board mods have - a browser can. Hence the SEO.

Poster and spam link gone.
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by The Observer »

I am guessing that SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization.
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Re: Barry A. Skrapec - loan denial

Post by Philistine »

The Observer wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 1:24 pm I am guessing that SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization.
Yes. The more external links to your site that web crawlers count, the higher your page rank, and the higher up your page appears in Google search results. Well, it's one of Google's criteria for page rank.