"Corporate" US

Moderators: Prof, Judge Roy Bean

GMac
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:21 am
Location: Upstate NY

"Corporate" US

Post by GMac »

Hey, folks, I'm new; a long-time watcher of militias & such (since 1993) and have been fascinated by the "patriot"/SC argle bargle collected here, though I don't understand a lot of the deep legal concepts. I do have a couple questions, though -

1) I keep seeing the assertion that the US is some kind of "corporation" that has declared bankruptcy and willed all citizens as collateral yadda yadda, therefore CAPITAL LETTERS and such. What's the deal? Has anyone specified what this corporation supposedly does, other than oppress? Is it just "corporations = BAD"?

2) When did this supposedly happen? I've seen at least 3 dates asserted for the incorporation: 1791, 1861 and 1891. Is there any "consensus" on this, or is it one of those things that just gets pulled out of fundaments randomly by different sovcit-types?
However, their version of science is flawed because real science predicts no survivors left alive on earth if my father's Vatican endorsed food process is not revived and frankly immediatly is none too soon! -ERASMUS OF AMERICA
User avatar
Pottapaug1938
Supreme Prophet (Junior Division)
Posts: 6107
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:26 pm
Location: In the woods, with a Hudson Bay axe in my hands.

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

The short answer is that this is all hogwash, and not worth the trouble to refute it (which we have already done, many times, in previous threads here).
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by arayder »

GMac, if you are really into this you can find expressions of the theories at various sovcit websites which explain the theories (lame though they are) better than anyone can repeat here.

I agree that the theories have been refuted here and at countless other forums.
AndyK
Illuminatian Revenue Supremo Emeritus
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by AndyK »

Two-part answer.

The "USA is bankrupt" claim relates to a speech delivered (actually read into the record) by a Congressional Representative trying to make a point. It has absolutely no more significance than the annual pardoning of a turkey or two.

The "Corporate USA" usually relates to the establishment of a municipal corporation to govern the District of Columbia. This then gets twisted into ..... Also, some no-life sovereignorami wasted huge amounts of time and discovered that there exists a "USA Corporation" based in Delaware (an office for handling the Delaware affairs of out-of-state incorporators) which thereby proves that the USA is a corporation. Also, references to various legitimate federal corporations regularly get skewed into ....
Taxes are the price we pay for a free society and to cover the responsibilities of the evaders
User avatar
Pottapaug1938
Supreme Prophet (Junior Division)
Posts: 6107
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:26 pm
Location: In the woods, with a Hudson Bay axe in my hands.

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

I might add that a lot of things get placed into the Congressional Record by Senators or Congressmen which have little or no basis in fact, but which are there because someone wants it there.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by arayder »

I think it's interesting to note that the corporate America theory doesn't explain states entering the union, after the supposed incorporation dates, in accordence with Article 4, via a process that doesn't match the corporate theory.
GMac
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:21 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by GMac »

arayder wrote:I think it's interesting to note that the corporate America theory doesn't explain states entering the union, after the supposed incorporation dates, in accordance with Article 4, via a process that doesn't match the corporate theory.
Lack of internal consistency in sovcit theories?

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

BTW, I was trying to stay out of the fever swamp as far as my questions went; I know I could "go to the source" but I wanted to see if there was anywhere sane addressing the issue. I hang around Rational Wiki as well, but their articles on freemen and sovruns seem to lack a lot of detail.
However, their version of science is flawed because real science predicts no survivors left alive on earth if my father's Vatican endorsed food process is not revived and frankly immediatly is none too soon! -ERASMUS OF AMERICA
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by arayder »

The lack of detail, is IMHO, in part due to the fact that sovcit gurus and wannabe gurus (ones just seeking the truth) are constantly adding new spin to old tired theories as they get debunked or turned back in the courts.

So keeping up with new woo is chore.
GMac
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:21 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by GMac »

arayder wrote:sovcit gurus and wannabe gurus (ones just seeking the truth) are constantly adding new spin to old tired theories as they get debunked or turned back in the courts.
So it's tweak the colors you need to sign things in and the magic words you need to say until the process actually works? Sounds like science - except a kind of stupid, pointless one that'll never produce results.
However, their version of science is flawed because real science predicts no survivors left alive on earth if my father's Vatican endorsed food process is not revived and frankly immediatly is none too soon! -ERASMUS OF AMERICA
Patriotdiscussions
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:27 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by Patriotdiscussions »

GMac wrote:
arayder wrote:sovcit gurus and wannabe gurus (ones just seeking the truth) are constantly adding new spin to old tired theories as they get debunked or turned back in the courts.
So it's tweak the colors you need to sign things in and the magic words you need to say until the process actually works? Sounds like science - except a kind of stupid, pointless one that'll never produce results.
Exactly, so just keep on living the dream.
GMac
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:21 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by GMac »

Patriotdiscussions wrote:
GMac wrote:So it's tweak the colors you need to sign things in and the magic words you need to say until the process actually works? Sounds like science - except a kind of stupid, pointless one that'll never produce results.
Exactly, so just keep on living the dream.
Reading comprehension, how does it fricking work?
However, their version of science is flawed because real science predicts no survivors left alive on earth if my father's Vatican endorsed food process is not revived and frankly immediatly is none too soon! -ERASMUS OF AMERICA
JamesVincent
A Councilor of the Kabosh
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:01 am
Location: Wherever my truck goes.

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by JamesVincent »

GMac wrote:
Patriotdiscussions wrote:
GMac wrote:So it's tweak the colors you need to sign things in and the magic words you need to say until the process actually works? Sounds like science - except a kind of stupid, pointless one that'll never produce results.
Exactly, so just keep on living the dream.
Reading comprehension, how does it fricking work?
He would be the last one to ask that question of.
Disciple of the cross and champion in suffering
Immerse yourself into the kingdom of redemption
Pardon your mind through the chains of the divine
Make way, the shepherd of fire

Avenged Sevenfold "Shepherd of Fire"
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by arayder »

GMac wrote:
Patriotdiscussions wrote:
GMac wrote:So it's tweak the colors you need to sign things in and the magic words you need to say until the process actually works? Sounds like science - except a kind of stupid, pointless one that'll never produce results.
Exactly, so just keep on living the dream.
Reading comprehension, how does it fricking work?
The sovcit drill is to do enough "the government ain't got no authority over me" jaw jacking to make it look like they walk the walk.

If a sovcit actually does his/her stuff in court he/she can depend on the fact that most courts aren't going to jail them for parking tickets. Tax cases usually take years to be resolved.

This means most sovcits can pretend they ruled in court as long as they walk out of the court room. The Canadian version of the sovcit (the freeman on the land) tends to mouth off a good bit more in court and for that reason often gets a night or two in jail for his trouble before the trial even starts.

There have been a few U.S. cases recently of real nasty criminals unsuccessfully using sovcit arguments in court after being busted for beating their kids or killing somebody.
littleFred
Stern Faced Schoolmaster of Serious Discussion
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:12 am
Location: England, UK

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by littleFred »

Some SovCits claim the entire USA belongs to the UK. Or to just the city of London. If true, that would render moot any questions over whether the USA is a corporation.

But those are old memes. A more current one is that names are evil. Cast off your name and be free! I've just heard a guy say that the word "name" should be pronounced "en-em-ee". "Enemy", geddit? No, I didn't either.
LPC
Trusted Keeper of the All True FAQ
Posts: 5233
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:38 am
Location: Earth

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by LPC »

GMac wrote:1) I keep seeing the assertion that the US is some kind of "corporation" that has declared bankruptcy and willed all citizens as collateral yadda yadda, therefore CAPITAL LETTERS and such. What's the deal? Has anyone specified what this corporation supposedly does, other than oppress? Is it just "corporations = BAD"?
My judgment is that it's a way of demeaning something you don't like, or what you want to feel superior to. Like referring to women as "girls" and African-Americans as "boys."

What are usually referred to as "corporations" are private enterprises with limited powers. Like the local dry cleaners. Much smaller and more feeble than governments.

Truth be told, governments have a lot of the attributes of corporations. They are not persons in the usual sense of the word, but they have the power to sue and be sued, enter into contracts, own property, and otherwise act like legal "persons." But governments have powers that ordinary business corporations will never have, such as the power to enact laws and punish the offenders of those law.

Which is why sovcits want to think of governments as corporations, because they want to undermine and de-legitimize the power of governments to punish the violations of laws.
GMac wrote:2) When did this supposedly happen? I've seen at least 3 dates asserted for the incorporation: 1791, 1861 and 1891. Is there any "consensus" on this, or is it one of those things that just gets pulled out of fundaments randomly by different sovcit-types?
The date that the federal government was de-legitimized (because that's the point of the corporation/bankruptcy narrative) very much depends on what flavor of mythology you favor.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by notorial dissent »

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they do not understand what a corporation is, or that there are in fact several flavors of corporation, not all created alike. Anymore than they comprehend that there is any validity to corporations names having to be in all caps, when in fact they do not, and never did. To some ignorance is bliss, to others it is a life style. In any event, it is all sovcit nonsense, of which there is so very much.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Patriotdiscussions
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:27 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by Patriotdiscussions »

What's a juristic person?
LPC
Trusted Keeper of the All True FAQ
Posts: 5233
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:38 am
Location: Earth

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by LPC »

Patriotdiscussions wrote:What's a juristic person?
You mean, like, one of the characters from the movie about the dinosaurs?
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by arayder »

Jeff Goldbloom, wasn't it?
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: "Corporate" US

Post by arayder »

LPC wrote:Truth be told, governments have a lot of the attributes of corporations. They are not persons in the usual sense of the word, but they have the power to sue and be sued, enter into contracts, own property, and otherwise act like legal "persons." But governments have powers that ordinary business corporations will never have, such as the power to enact laws and punish the offenders of those law.

Which is why sovcits want to think of governments as corporations, because they want to undermine and de-legitimize the power of governments to punish the violations of laws.
Well said.

Freemen and sovcits want to believe they can escape the certainty of the law by ending their supposed contractual relationship with the government the same way they fire the bug man.

In the end they are wrong in their assumption that all relationships are contractual.