Does a person exist without an address?

[Judge Roy Bean]

Oddity among distant relatives.

I'm being asked for advice on what has become a family issue and I frankly cannot fathom a viable suggestion for the parties involved - barring a major investment in attorneys none of the families can afford.

A member of a family who is due some portion of an estate apparently refuses to have a physical "address." This isn't the classic TP/Sovcit position - this is much less complex and everyone in the family has lived with it for a number of years. It has become a kind of moot point given today's technology. They can sporadically communicate electronically but not since December. In the past, there have been family gatherings where the person in question attended but not in the last two years. Now, with the death of a relative and an estate to be distributed, the problem seems to be not having a mailing address.

This person was a free-lance artist and apparently had/has sufficient cash means to live without a permanent residence. We know there was travel in a motor-home involved some years ago. There is even a photo of the motor-home involved at one time and it's not one of those cheap little camper rigs. It had a state of Washington plate but the person never had a Washington domicile that we know of.

One family member more recently tracked down an IP address to a provider that serves an extended-stay chain of hotels.

I'm concerned in one regard that the person may now actually be homeless, but most members of the family insist that this is one of those "free spirit" kinds of things where the normal rules of housing and location simply don't apply.

What do you do when one of these "free spirits" doesn't have a place of residence? I understand the rules of service but have little or no experience with dealing with what I'm becoming more and more convinced is someone who is now among the homeless.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[notorial dissent]

So I take it what you're saying is that the individual is alive and known to be alive, has no fixed or known address? And what you are trying to get at is that they can't be served or notified about the estate?

[The Observer]

This may be a job for a private detective in terms of tracking this person down and locating them, if only to notify the nomad that he or she is beneficiary of the estate and needs to appear to claim it. The RV being registered means that there has to be some address to which it is registered and that may be a residence of a source who can get hold of this wandering relative. If the hotel chain has a presence in Washington state, it might be a lucky coincidence that doing a drive-by of the nearest hotel to the registered address might spot the RV. But then again, it is just a long-shot. The RV gives the relative the option of being anywhere on this continent.

And you have to consider the possibility of them not only being homeless but also being ill or dead as well.

[Llwellyn]

To dispense the Funds/Inheritance you CAN set up a Trust/Bank account in their name. Upon someone contacting them, they would then be required to go into said bank branch and Prove their identification (Birth cert, Drivers, Passport etc etc) to then be able to access the account and move/withdraw the funds. Other 'Physical' items.. well a family member has to hold them. If neither are claimed after 7 years, it can be either donated away, or ascribed elsewhere.

My suggestion!

[Judge Roy Bean]

As of the Christmas holiday, we know the person was alive. No response to emails since then but that kind of thing has been normal. The oldest sibling remembers the motorhome being sold on a web site.

In addition to the inheritance there are items of property that belong to the individual that were in storage at the deceased's home, including a motorcycle and trailer for it (more evidence that the motorhome is gone). No one wants the expense of a rental storage space and apparently all of the property ("so-and-so's 's**t'") takes up almost half of a one-car garage.

This "free spirit" thing has become a PITA for a family and I'm afraid some money is going to have to be paid to an investigator or skip tracer.

Thanks for the suggestions - and the question remains, how can you function without a damned mailing address!?!?!?!

ps - Llwellyn - I don't believe financial institutions will allow someone to open an account in someone else's name any more. If memory serves, it revolves around rules against money laundering and requires a physical presence.

[eric]

I'm certainly not a lawyer, and estate law may differ in your particular jurisdiction, but I have experience dealing with a similar situation for the past five years. I understand that you have been careful to omit certain details but the scenario seems to me to be a case of a family estate where the residual beneficiaries want their inheritance, the executor wants to give it to them, and also wants to wind up the estate. The fly in the ointment is the beneficiary who can't be contacted to sign off on the executor's passing of accounts before any funds can be disbursed.

Here is how I would suggest handling it, although estate law may differ in your locale:
1. The executor sets aside an appropriate sum to handle any potential taxes, legal fees or other disbursements;
2. Serve (or attempt to) all beneficiaries with a letter indicating that the executor wishes to perform a preliminary and partial disbursement of the remaining funds, along with a statement of accounts;
3. Those that reply in agreement get their monies;
4. Those that do not reply get a simple bank account with their portion deposited in it, in most cases it's easier not to be even interest bearing, administered by the executor until things can get sorted out.
Assuming that the remaining beneficiaries don't wish to contest the process, for a "simple" family estate this works where I am and can be done even without a court order. I'm afraid that the estate has to stay alive until the last beneficiary gets paid out, but everybody else can enjoy the fruits of their parents' labour.

[Judge Roy Bean]

I'm certainly not a lawyer, and estate law may differ in your particular jurisdiction, but I have experience dealing with a similar situation for the past five years. I understand that you have been careful to omit certain details but the scenario seems to me to be a case of a family estate where the residual beneficiaries want their inheritance, the executor wants to give it to them, and also wants to wind up the estate. The fly in the ointment is the beneficiary who can't be contacted to sign off on the executor's passing of accounts before any funds can be disbursed.

That pretty well sums it up.

Here is how I would suggest handling it, although estate law may differ in your locale:
1. The executor sets aside an appropriate sum to handle any potential taxes, legal fees or other disbursements;
2. Serve (or attempt to) all beneficiaries with a letter indicating that the executor wishes to perform a preliminary and partial disbursement of the remaining funds, along with a statement of accounts;
3. Those that reply in agreement get their monies;
4. Those that do not reply get a simple bank account with their portion deposited in it, in most cases it's easier not to be even interest bearing, administered by the executor until things can get sorted out.
Assuming that the remaining beneficiaries don't wish to contest the process, for a "simple" family estate this works where I am and can be done even without a court order. I'm afraid that the estate has to stay alive until the last beneficiary gets paid out, but everybody else can enjoy the fruits of their parents' labour.

Thank you very much - if the executor can establish an account for this person that would resolve the issues with the exception of the person's junk that will have to be put in storage.

[AndyK]

In addition, many courts recognize as valid service "publication in a newspaper of general circulation."

Perhaps (subject to advice of counsel or the appropriate probate judge) a legal notice would suffice as service / notification.

[eric]

Here is how I would suggest handling it, although estate law may differ in your locale:
1. The executor sets aside an appropriate sum to handle any potential taxes, legal fees or other disbursements;
2. Serve (or attempt to) all beneficiaries with a letter indicating that the executor wishes to perform a preliminary and partial disbursement of the remaining funds, along with a statement of accounts;
3. Those that reply in agreement get their monies;
4. Those that do not reply get a simple bank account with their portion deposited in it, in most cases it's easier not to be even interest bearing, administered by the executor until things can get sorted out.
Assuming that the remaining beneficiaries don't wish to contest the process, for a "simple" family estate this works where I am and can be done even without a court order. I'm afraid that the estate has to stay alive until the last beneficiary gets paid out, but everybody else can enjoy the fruits of their parents' labour.

Thank you very much - if the executor can establish an account for this person that would resolve the issues with the exception of the person's junk that will have to be put in storage.

The bank account doesn't have to be in the beneficiary's name, just a seperate account from the rest of the estate to indicate that it is being administered seperately and the funds are available when they wish to play along appropriately. Non-interest bearing just makes it easier from a tax point of view, an executor is expected to perform fiduciary duties, but making investment decisions on the part of a beneficiary who is capable of making adult decisions but refuses to is asking too much.

I've dealt with the issue of prized posessions (read junk) that has to be put in storage. Pay it for a few months but indicate to the storage company an end date. It may be an incentive for the owner of said merchandise to get off their butt and renew contact, besides most storage companies, along with a legal process to go through when the storage fees are unpaid, can act as your own unpaid private detective to track down the original owner.

[bmxninja357]

i know this bares little weight to the purpose of this thread but im going to talk about addresses. many here know i live in a motorhome. this means no street address and anything i give as an address is a lie. i have tried and some here will remember what happened. one of the arguments was on some long forgotten news comments section. the crux of it was i did not want a street address on my drivers license as i do not live at a street address. i often go for weeks never spending more than a night or two in the same place. so any address i use is by default a lie and it is an absurdity at law. i have earned my driving privileges for both work and play. so no matter what i do i have to lie. while trying to get my license as something like alberta as an address (which is the truest of homes) they changed the law to say one must have an address.

now i know my situation is not unique. alberta is very transient. many folks here live in rv's, friends couch, hotels. much has to do with the nature of employment in alberta. but the fact is every single person who has a license and does not live at a dedicated address is forced to lie. and i know many who live this way do not appreciate it. for example i got pulled over and got the third reich when i said i lived in my motorhome. i told them that was my mailing address and they said a bunch of bs. one thing was your address should reflect where you generally drive. now this calls upon a whole different angle. insurance prices are based on the area one is most likely to be driving in. in my case its alberta. tonight im in sherwood park. tomorrow im in stony plain. two nights later i will be in jasper or blackfalds. so whats my address? every night i will stay at home.

currently my address is house i used to rent. the house was torn down a few years ago but my brother and myself have just kept getting our mail sent to the box. its one of those multi boxes at the end of the block. the way i see it its as close to the truth as anything.

so yes my person exists. it holds gainful employment. does taxes. insures and registers vehicles. however am i doing it legally? who the frig knows.

was almost a rant,
ninj

[noblepa]

IANAL, and I'm not even a Canadian, Ninja, but it sounds to me that, even if there is some law that would require you to have a fixed mailing addrress, you have not demonstrated any criminal intent in violating such laws. I assume that the concept of Mense Rea exists in Canadian courts, as it does in the US.

Now, if you are living in an RV, for the purposes of evading taxes or lawful debts, that is a different matter. In that case, I would assume that that might constitute Mense Rea for the purpose of such statutes, in addition to fraud and/or tax evasion.

But the story you tell in your above post does not seem to indicate any fraudulent intent. You simply like to move around a lot. I see nothing wrong with that, although, in this day and age, it is a bit unusual, but not criminal, per se.

As to the original post, it is my understanding that an executor is authorized to spend funds from the estate that are necessary for the distribution of the estate assets. Could the executor not put the itinerant heir's (sounds like a Perry Mason case; "The case of the itinerant Heir") funds in a bank account, and use those funds to pay a storage facility for the motorcycle or other property? If the funds are exhausted and the heir has not come forward, the property could then be sold.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
As to the original post, it is my understanding that an executor is authorized to spend funds from the estate that are necessary for the distribution of the estate assets. Could the executor not put the itinerant heir's (sounds like a Perry Mason case; "The case of the itinerant Heir") funds in a bank account, and use those funds to pay a storage facility for the motorcycle or other property? If the funds are exhausted and the heir has not come forward, the property could then be sold.

That appears to be the consensus view, and I'm also going to suggest that they spend some of the wanderer's funds on a skip-tracer/detective to find out what has happened.

Question for the Treasury types around here - do the IRS regs allow the executor of an estate to get the "last known address" from the most recent federal return of a prospective heir? I know there are services out there that can obtain the first several pages of a tax return but there is a cost for that. My thought was the executor could wait until after April 15th and file whatever document is appropriate with the IRS and at least give the detective a starting point.

Thanks everyone for your assistance.

[eric]

i know this bares little weight to the purpose of this thread but im going to talk about addresses. many here know i live in a motorhome. this means no street address and anything i give as an address is a lie.
currently my address is house i used to rent. the house was torn down a few years ago but my brother and myself have just kept getting our mail sent to the box. its one of those multi boxes at the end of the block. the way i see it its as close to the truth as anything.
so yes my person exists. it holds gainful employment. does taxes. insures and registers vehicles. however am i doing it legally? who the frig knows.
was almost a rant,
ninj

Not quite legal since Canada Post guards their privileges carefully, but all that might happen is that you lose the use of your box. You basicly have two options to get back into everyone's good books:
1. Rent a box through one of those drop box services for small businesses and that can be your physical address - this can be quite expensive however;
2. Canada Post has a service just for people like you - you can rent either a Convenience Box or General Delivery Box for a modest sum and it becomes your physical address. If you can prove some sort of residence in a town small enough (like where I live) that PO Boxes are the only means of mail delivery there is no charge for the box. And yes, all my documentation, such as driver's licence, etc simply has my PO Box number and village on it, the same as literally thousands of other residents of Alberta.

[The Observer]

Question for the Treasury types around here - do the IRS regs allow the executor of an estate to get the "last known address" from the most recent federal return of a prospective heir? I know there are services out there that can obtain the first several pages of a tax return but there is a cost for that. My thought was the executor could wait until after April 15th and file whatever document is appropriate with the IRS and at least give the detective a starting point.

No. That would be a violation of disclosure laws as they currently exist.

And I have no idea of what kind of "services" that exist that could obtain copies of any taxpayer's return from the IRS without having the taxpayer's express approval to do so. If such services are getting the copies from some other source than IRS, I would tend to think that such information was either secured illegally or should be not be considered as being accurate/valid.

[notorial dissent]

Probably your best bet would be to pull a credit report, and then I'm not betting on much if they are constantly on the move. This may just go down as an unclaimed inheritance subject o TX, I assume, laws. Unless they have changed it I suspect TX law is like everywhere else, and it would eventually escheat to the state as unclaimed. A lot of this also depends on how big of an inheritance you're talking about.

[LaVidaRoja]

6103 Does allow the IRS to forward a letter to the taxpayer's last known address. The letter will be read by the Disclosure Officer before being forwarded. I once worked on a case where a corporation was liquidating but had lost track of shareholders. The corporation sent us the letters with the shareholders' SSNs. We pulled the addressed and sent the letters on. I actually got a "Thank you" letter from one of the shareholders!

[Judge Roy Bean]

6103 Does allow the IRS to forward a letter to the taxpayer's last known address. The letter will be read by the Disclosure Officer before being forwarded. I once worked on a case where a corporation was liquidating but had lost track of shareholders. The corporation sent us the letters with the shareholders' SSNs. We pulled the addressed and sent the letters on. I actually got a "Thank you" letter from one of the shareholders!

Ah! My old mind isn't completely malfunctioning - can you identify the proper form/method for making that kind of request?

[LaVidaRoja]

It's been a LONG time since I was in Disclosure. I would start by calling the local Disclosure office. Used to be in the District Office, back when there were Districts. MAY have been merged with the Problem Resolution office. Probably now in the Individual/Small Business unit. Seems to me you would send a cover letter with the SSN of the person you want the enclosed letter sent to. The cover letter would give a broad over-view (Trying to reach person in order to inform them of their status as heir to estate of XX) The letter to be forwarded will be read before forwarding, to be certain it is as represented. When it is sent forward, it is with an IRS cover letter explaining that the recipient's address is NOT being released to the sender. In fact , IIRC we did not even tell the sender whether or not we were able to send the letter on.

[The Observer]

Disclosure is organized under the Privacy, Government Liaison & Disclosure operating division, reporting to the Deputy Commissioner for Operation Support organization. I would recommend just sending the request to the IRS at 1100 Commerce Street, Dallas, TX 7524, marked to the attention of "Disclosure Office". It should end up in the right hands, even if they need to forward to a local office closer to your relatives.

This is presuming that you are actually holding court somewhere west of the Pecos in Texas. If not, contact me by PM and I will see if there is a better address.

[The Observer]

I spoke to a Disclosure manager this morning and was advised that the letter-forwarding program was discontinued by the IRS around 3 years ago. In explanation, I was told that the IRS found that the information that they had was just as dated or erroneous, if not more, as what was available through commercial locating services. The only letter-forwarding that the IRS will now do is in situation where there is an issue of life or death, such as trying to locate donors for tissue or organs.

Sorry, Judge.