OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

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Heather will decide to head for the hills:

Before her next hearing
1
3%
After her next hearing
2
6%
Before her trial
13
37%
Before her sentencing
16
46%
Never - she wants to experience BEing and DOing behind bars.
3
9%
 
Total votes: 35

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Athis » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:05 pm

I did say in my comment above that what Randy did was a crime and he will pay the price
And I'm not arguing to excuse his actions
All I am pointing out is that in his mind what he was doing was right and legal
The TDA account in his mind is not fictitious - it really exists (in his mind only)
So he was withdrawing money from an account which he believed belonged rightfully to him
How he came to be so benighted to believe these things is a mystery to me
And how he came to be so dumb as to use his own accounts and go out the next day and start spending the money is also a mystery to me; how he thought he could get away with that so brazenly is mind numbing
There is something tragic in Randy's story imo

BZ also tried it and also used her own accounts but she did not transfer the money to another account
I think she held back at that stage and just waited to see would the transactions stand or be cancelled
And of course they were cancelled
So she was either not as brave or not as dumb as Randy to risk transferring the money immediately
If she had she would be in prison too
The outcome for BZ was that the bank closed her accounts and and terminated all dealings with her
I think she had a couple of accounts at that bank
I heard her talk about this in one of her published talks

When I listen to BZ and Randy talking what I hear is that they believe in the UCC fantasy and they believe we all have TDA accounts at the Federal Reserve that are legally ours; and they believe they are heroes on the frontlines of liberating the peoples of the Earth from bondage and servitude to a financial slavery system
Their level of delusion and the cost to them and their lives is tragic imo

My fascination with Heather and BZ and Randy and sovs generally is not to see these people punished but to try to understand how they come to have these crazy beliefs that lead them into so much unnecessary trouble and grief
At the same time I realise they cannot just be allowed to make up their own legal systems as it pleases them
And I am not arguing for anything like that
Like the rest of us they have to abide by the law and pay the price when their foolishness gets them in trouble
I'm not saying we should excuse them from legal repercussions for breaking the law

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:15 pm

Randy has no money. He is in fact out the redemption penalties he incurred on the CDs with no gain, any actual money transferred went straight back.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby BoomerSooner17 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:36 pm

Perhaps Heather just wanted to crash for a while in Randy's brand-new, luxury RV. With her housing taken care of, whatever trickle of guru revenue she still receives can go towards other things. Her smoking habit isn't going to pay for itself.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby The Observer » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:45 pm

Athis wrote:All I am pointing out is that in his mind what he was doing was right and legal


But, as been pointed out before, if Randy really believed that, he would not have used the methods he did in trying to cover up the theft by using a fake bank account.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby TheNewSaint » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:34 pm

Athis wrote:There is something tragic in Randy's story imo


I get where you're coming from. It is tragic to watch someone destroy themselves over something this stupid. But such is the allure of freedmanism. Promise people free money, and some narrative about how they're being denied what's theirs, and the lemmings will pour off the cliff.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby TheNewSaint » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:47 pm

notorial dissent wrote: I'd been wondering what her sudden interest in him was, and the it hit me, then the $$$$$ signs in her eyes and the cash register sound going off hit me, and then it made perfect sense all of a sudden.


Randy is Heather's guinea pig. As Athis notes, Randy was the only one willing to make a huge purchase with his secret treasury account. So it is in Heather's interest to observe his case, and if it succeeds, she can pass along the secret formula to her followers. If he fails, he goes to jail, not Heather. (Of course, this backfired when Heather got too involved.)

I think a lot of gurus are just looking for suckers to field-test their theories, so they can benefit from the results. Heather really believes these accounts exist, and it's just a matter of how to get to them. If she can talk someone into accepting payment from Randy's non-existent account, she can soon get access to her own.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Gregg » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:06 pm

BoomerSooner17 wrote:Perhaps Heather just wanted to crash for a while in Randy's brand-new, luxury RV. With her housing taken care of, whatever trickle of guru revenue she still receives can go towards other things. Her smoking habit isn't going to pay for itself.


The hardest part of going to prison for Heather is going to be not being allowed to smoke. I think she has a 4 pack a day habit.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby waylonmercy » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:03 am

TheNewSaint wrote:Randy is Heather's guinea pig.


But not her first. Meet Kiri Campbell*:

When talk that the courtesy notices were failing, two new schemes were cooked up by Heather. She would write documents that followers could take to banks, deposit a fraction of their Federal Reserve account's "intrinsic value," convert it to actual currency and thus followers could finally get a portion of their promised billions. Concurrently, work began on "Project 13," which was advertised as a subscription based software program that would allow Heather's followers to buy and sell goods and services using their "intrinsic value." Subscribers would pay Heather a monthly fee to "access their value" and use the program.

In July, 2013, Kiri Campbell, acting upon Heather's advice, attempted to deposit $15 million of her "value" into her bank account. Ms. Campbell also wrote $60,000 in bad checks backed by her "value." Heather proclaimed Kiri as a hero. She also stated that Campbell's success was proof that Heather's strategies work. Ms. Campbell was eventually arrested, accepted a plea bargain and was sentenced to 200 hours of community service.



* Source: The RationalWiki website
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby waylonmercy » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:30 am

More information regarding Kiri Campbell's New Zealand funny money spending spree. I will give someone else the pleasure of stating the obvious.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-n ... us-cheques
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Gregg » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:08 am

KooKoo Kiwi Kiri Campbell is mentioned several times in the original OPPT thread. I'm surprised she hasn't come up in the courtroom in Tennessee yet.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby TheNewSaint » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:36 pm

waylonmercy wrote:When talk that the courtesy notices were failing, two new schemes were cooked up by Heather. She would write documents that followers could take to banks, deposit a fraction of their Federal Reserve account's "intrinsic value," convert it to actual currency and thus followers could finally get a portion of their promised billions.


Which raises a question... why would a New Zealand citizen have a Federal Reserve account? Even if you believe this cockamamie theory about secret Federal Reserve accounts, wouldn't they be limited to US citizens? Her secret account testing spreadsheet shows attempts from Germany, Canada, Australia, Philippines, and France. Most of which use the local equivalent of national ID number and national bank routing number. How peculiar that all nations operate the same way in this regard. Goes to show how little Heather thinks any of this through.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Gregg » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:48 pm

When Kiri was doing it, Heather had not evolved the Federal Reserve into the plot yet,OPPT jut relied upon your intrinsic value as backing.
Kiri took the load of fake paperwork to her bank, which they ignored, and then she found she still had a book of checks from a bank that had previously asked her to take her business elsewhere, so she wrote a $15million check from that account to her current bank. ?Then she wrote checks from THAT account to go shopping, much like Randy Beane attempted to launder money in the instant case.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Athis » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:51 pm

The Observer wrote:
Athis wrote:All I am pointing out is that in his mind what he was doing was right and legal


But, as been pointed out before, if Randy really believed that, he would not have used the methods he did in trying to cover up the theft by using a fake bank account.


What account are you referring to when you say Randy used a fake account?

All I have heard and read indicates he used accounts in his own name

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Athis » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:08 pm

TheNewSaint wrote:
Athis wrote:There is something tragic in Randy's story imo


I get where you're coming from. It is tragic to watch someone destroy themselves over something this stupid. But such is the allure of freedmanism. Promise people free money, and some narrative about how they're being denied what's theirs, and the lemmings will pour off the cliff.


Yes I think that is true
Salvation religions function in the same way; they offer believing and hoping as an antidote to the hardship and uncertainty of life. The sov ideology has a lot in common with religion; and that is most evident in the case of Heather and her followers. A lot of the people duped by the TDA fantasy are in bad financial shape and are seeking a way out. In today's economic climate there is a growing low-waged underclass living from paycheck to paycheck and carrying a heavy debt load. They are relatively easy prey for lowlife scammers.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby wserra » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:39 pm

Athis wrote:What account are you referring to when you say Randy used a fake account?


From the indictment:
13(e). The defendant, RANDALL KEITH BEANE, would and did conduct electronic financial transactions, including the purchase and attempted purchase of jumbo CDs through USAA, in which the defendant RANDALL KEITH BEANE, falsely represented the funding source by using a fictitious account number, that is account number ending in xxxxx-1135.
...
15. On or about the dates set forth below, within the Eastern District of Tennessee and elsewhere, the defendant, RANDALL KEITH BEANE, for the purposes of executing and attempting to execute the above-described scheme and artifice to defraud, purchased jumbo CDs with funds that did not belong to him by using routing numbers that did not belong to his accounts and fictitious bank accounts
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:34 pm

Athis wrote:
What account are you referring to when you say Randy used a fake account?

All I have heard and read indicates he used accounts in his own name


He shifted the 'money' from the account it was transferred to and where he bought and immediately sold the CD to another account, presumably to delay the unwrangling of the money. He then used this second account to 'pay' for the RV.

I think it is this intermediate account that could be described as a fake account inasmuch it was apparently only opened for the purposes of the movement and confusion of the 'money'.

Even if it had taken another day to wrap this up and Randy had driven off in the RV, I doubt if it would have taken all that long to track it down. I'd not sell or buy such an expensive thing without an antitheft tracking system installed, and this is not something the user can switch off or even find.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Gregg » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:14 pm

Siegfried Shrink wrote:
Athis wrote:
What account are you referring to when you say Randy used a fake account?

All I have heard and read indicates he used accounts in his own name


He shifted the 'money' from the account it was transferred to and where he bought and immediately sold the CD to another account, presumably to delay the unwrangling of the money. He then used this second account to 'pay' for the RV.

I think it is this intermediate account that could be described as a fake account inasmuch it was apparently only opened for the purposes of the movement and confusion of the 'money'.

Even if it had taken another day to wrap this up and Randy had driven off in the RV, I doubt if it would have taken all that long to track it down. I'd not sell or buy such an expensive thing without an antitheft tracking system installed, and this is not something the user can switch off or even find.


You've got a few facts confused. The account in the middle was a legitimate account, he used a fake routing number to transfer money into that account from the FRB and then immediately bought the CDs from that account. Then he cashed out the CDs back to that account, which was now laundered money. He tried to transfer $29 million but only $1.5 million actually made it to his USAA account that he could access. That money didn't come from the FRB, USAA just let some uncleared funds slip to him either by mistake or a loose policy. He did more than buy the RV, he also bought a pickup and paid off his bills, the pickup was returned. All of it only worked because somehow USAA released some of the funds before the deposits cleared, which was a function of scale. IE: I I deposit a $5,000 check to my account, typically my bank will hold $4500 of it for 5 days before making it available but let me have instant access to $500. MY bank limits uncleared funds available to $500 no matter how much I deposit but some banks let you have 5 or 10%. I bet USAA used to open up a percentage but has since added an absolute dollar amount limit.
On the possibility of a tracking device, not even close to legal, you can do it if the vehicle is financed and you disclose the device to the buyer, but must remove it at your cost when the loan is paid (the dealer only does the work, the bank pays for it all and the legality of doing it is the collateral agreement terms). These devices are not hard to find or remove IF you hve some tech savvy and access to tuning software better than the things you get at Autozone to reset your oil change light.
To the dealer that sold the RV Its not really a very big and expensive one, you can drop a few million on a class A motorhome in a minute. Importantly, the dealer is the big winner in this, they didn't take the RV back and the sale was finalized, the RV is in storage and the dealer might well be who is getting paid to store and maintain it, and might be who gets to collect a commission check when USAA gets to sell it eventually. AS of today, Randy is the legal owner of the RV which is impounded as proceeds of criminal activity and USAA is out the half million it cost. That little fact is a big reason that Heather is in trouble because she tried to convince the dealer's bank not to return the funds to USAA, which they didn't although I don't think her brilliant advocacy is the reason why. Her phone call that she made the argument and then posted all over the interwebz is what she is in trouble for.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Gregg » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:21 pm

I do think the RV he bought is the upper end of what is usually setting on the lot ready to go, while you can spend a lot more on one, much more than half a million is where you start getting custom made to order stuff that takes a few weeks to come in, and for Randy's purposes, putting down 10% to place the order wasn't going to work. The fact that he didn't go that route might be more proof he knew what he was doing.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Jeffrey » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:28 pm

he used a fake routing number to transfer money into that account from the FRB


The routing number was real, the account number was fake in the sense that it was just his social security number, hence referring to an account that didn’t exist.

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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Postby Athis » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:14 pm

Randy used his own accounts in his own name; they were not fake accounts
The routing number also was a real Federal Reserve routing number
And as far as I know Randy used his own social security number (not a fake one)

The TDA account is not a fake account - it just doesn't exist; except in Randy's mind
In Randy's mind there is a TDA account in his name at the Fed Res and he believes he was legally entitled to draw from it

But as I say the accounts he used to pull of the operation were legitimate and in his name


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