The Sovereign Community Speaks

[Prof]

I think that JRB and I have been less derelict in not posting anything on the sovereign community, at least as it is represented by the denizens of http://www.suijurisclub.net.

Therefore, here are a few samples:

Statutes are not law:

#1 (permalink) 05-19-2009, 02:58 PM


Statutes are not law!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Annals of the American Academy of ... - Google Book Search


Quote:
The Austinian theory of law as the command of the sovereign is rejected. The author knows no sovereign. The state is a useful personified abstraction invented to give title to the acts of the ruling persons who are the actual sources of authority. It is, however, needless to invent another abstraction to which to attribute a fictitious command. Law first arises when the judicial authority of a political community lays down a rule in deciding controversies. On any given point there is no law until the court declares it. Custom is not law, because custom is practice, and law is opinion. Statutes are not law, for they are not self-interpreting. "Their meaning is declared in courts, and it is with that meaning as declared by the courts and with no other meaning that they are imposed upon the community as law". A judicial decision is at the same time a law and an important though not controlling source of other laws. Though in fact a court is free to make a law for each particular case as it sees fit, custom, legislation, precedent and the opinion of experts are given legal recognition by the courts as sources of future decisions. Each rule declared by the court is a law. The law is the body of rules so declared. Yet how this congeries of particulars become fused into a conceptual unity is not made manifest.

=D

The Nature and Sources of the Law - Google Book Search

Have fun !


netwrkranger


Re: Statutes are not law!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems authority rests in a person or corpus of persons and not a document......


netwrkranger
05-19-2009, 03:53 PM

nydeemarie
Uploads: 0


Re: Statutes are not law!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Networkranger...

so the Rules that pertain to Judges must be obeyed as Law???? Binding and such??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by nydeemarie; 05-19-2009 at 04:01 PM.


nydeemarie

netwrkranger
Supreme Club Member

Re: Statutes are not law!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nydeemarie
Thank you Networkranger...

so the Rules that pertain to Judges must be obeyed as Law???? Binding and such??

If those rules are statutes and those statutes have been ruled upon by a judiciary .....

... they have the force of law .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Downloads: 17
Uploads: 0


Re: Statutes are not law!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Network Ranger
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwrkranger
If those rules are statutes and those statutes have been ruled upon by a judiciary .....

... they have the force of law .

LOL you beat me to it.. My internet is cranky today... grrrr..

it may take me 4 tries to post..

so it is the Opinion... that has the FORCE... I thought so.....

lucky I had one...

otherwise I wouldn't have known that the Judge remained disqualifed...

...VOID...

but Judges do not obey the law..

so people imagine that they can pass a Law requiring Judges to obey the Law

if they didn't respect and honor the first, what would they respect and honor the last??


nydeemarie

slofu


Re: Statutes are not law!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get the judge to admit on record his/her oath to uphold the State/Fed Constitution(s), and on record accept his/her oath. You now have a binding contract with him/her which, if broken, will annul his/her authority over your case should you note and object to the breach on record. The law won't serve those who don't claim by it their rights.


slofu
05-19-2009, 05:26 PM

I post this without comment, but welcome your comments.

[Prof]

Correct me if I am wrong, but are not statutes the result (direct or indirect) of the legislative branch doing its job, with a sign off/approval by the executive branch? And isn't this how laws are enacted, thus making statutes law?

Watching "sovereign citizens" make these spurious, twisted, illogical and wrong arguments reminds me of a pack of screeching monkeys trying to f*ck a football.

As JRB says, these folks just seem to repeat the same cliches/cut and paste quotes, etc. Or, to paraphrase the great Yoga, Yogi, "It's deja vu all over again."

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Correct me if I am wrong, but are not statutes the result (direct or indirect) of the legislative branch doing its job, with a sign off/approval by the executive branch? And isn't this how laws are enacted, thus making statutes law?

Watching "sovereign citizens" make these spurious, twisted, illogical and wrong arguments reminds me of a pack of screeching monkeys trying to f*ck a football.

Claiming that statutes or codes aren't laws is one of the classics from the YouTube sovereigns/tax deniers. This claim usually goes hand in hand with "read the Constitution", which is a real snicker, given that the process you described is outlined in Article 1, Sec. 7 of he U.S. Constitution.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Glad to see those 7 or 8 years of college were not a waste for me...........

[Nikki]

Glad to see those 7 or 8 years of college were not a waste for me...........

SooeyHeads say approximately the same thing, except that they are referring to their experience with a similar number of years between the 9th and 11th grades.

[Prof]

In this posting from the fringe, Assembler waxes eloquent on the NIRA, FDR's recovery program; this statute was declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in 1935.

Yesterday, 05:47 PM
assembler


"Administrator" and “National Industrial Recovery act”.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings

The following “CODE” lays out FINANCING BUILDINGS, "administrator" and “National Industrial Recovery act”. This in turn sheds light on “Juridiction”, “Place” and “Venue”:

FINANCING BUILDINGS
§ 111-3631. Definitions. The following terms wherever used or referred to in this act shall have the following meaning unless a different meaning appears from the context

(c) The term "National Industrial Recovery act" shall mean the act of the congress of the United States of America, approved June 16, 1933, entitled "An act to encourage national industrial recovery, to foster fair competition, and to provide for the construction of certain useful public works, and for other purposes", and any act amendatory thereof, and any acts supplemental thereto, and revisions thereof, and any further act of the congress of the United States of America to encourage public works, to reduce unemployment and thereby to assist in the national recovery and promote the public welfare.

(d) The term "administrator" means the United States of America or the Federal emergency administrator of public works appointed by the president of the United States under the national industrial recovery act or such other agencies as the president of the United States or said act may designate or create or through which they or any of them may act.

(e) The term "person" shall mean any person, firm, corporation, partnership or association. [L. 1933 (2d S.S.), ch. 27, § 1, p. 77; O. C.

§ 111-3634. Application for loans and/or grants for building purposes : Contracts for : Terms.
(d) To enter into contracts with the United States of America or with such other corporation, department or agency as may be created by act of congress to lease from the United States of America, or from such corporation, department or agency, the building constructed on any such site and to pay as rental a sum sufficient to pay on a specified amortization plan the total cost of the building with interest thereon at the rate of not to exceed 6 per cent per annum, less any Federal grants.

(Assembler).


assembler

Re: "Administrator" and “National Industrial Recovery act”.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
"and for other purposes"

My ABSOLUTE favorite of FAVORITES!!!!!


Quote:
"It just doesn't get any better!!!"

__________________
"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone, in the air.
You can never capture it again."
Eric Dolphy




Re: "Administrator" and “National Industrial Recovery act”.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by assembler
Greetings

The following “CODE” lays out FINANCING BUILDINGS, "administrator" and “National Industrial Recovery act”. This in turn sheds light on “Juridiction”, “Place” and “Venue”:

FINANCING BUILDINGS
§ 111-3631. Definitions. The following terms wherever used or referred to in this act shall have the following meaning unless a different meaning appears from the context

(c) The term "National Industrial Recovery act" shall mean the act of the congress of the United States of America, approved June 16, 1933, entitled "An act to encourage national industrial recovery, to foster fair competition, and to provide for the construction of certain useful public works, and for other purposes", and any act amendatory thereof, and any acts supplemental thereto, and revisions thereof, and any further act of the congress of the United States of America to encourage public works, to reduce unemployment and thereby to assist in the national recovery and promote the public welfare.

(d) The term "administrator" means the United States of America or the Federal emergency administrator of public works appointed by the president of the United States under the national industrial recovery act or such other agencies as the president of the United States or said act may designate or create or through which they or any of them may act.

(e) The term "person" shall mean any person, firm, corporation, partnership or association. [L. 1933 (2d S.S.), ch. 27, § 1, p. 77; O. C.

§ 111-3634. Application for loans and/or grants for building purposes : Contracts for : Terms.
(d) To enter into contracts with the United States of America or with such other corporation, department or agency as may be created by act of congress to lease from the United States of America, or from such corporation, department or agency, the building constructed on any such site and to pay as rental a sum sufficient to pay on a specified amortization plan the total cost of the building with interest thereon at the rate of not to exceed 6 per cent per annum, less any Federal grants.

(Assembler).

A really good one there!
__________________
"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone, in the air.
You can never capture it again."
Eric Dolphy

My Music Blog

Mr. Mike's "Do it Yourself" Study Guide

Assembler seems to have access to a few old law books, including an old copy of the Oregon Code (or parts of same). The other day, he was quoting from the Negotiable Instruments Law, which was replaced by Art's 3 and 4 of the UCC in the 60's and 70's (I don't know when Oregon adopted the UCC). By the way, the NIRA was declared unconstitutional in Schechter Poultry, one of the Supreme Court rulings that led to the attempt by FDR to increase the size of and pack the Supreme Court. The NIRA was to expire, under the terms of the statute, in June of 1935, and the Supreme Court ruled the Act unconstitutional in May of 1935. Most commentators agree that the statute would not have been renewed, anyway.

[fortinbras]

Assembler seems to have an old old copy of the Oregon code; he not only never cites an authority more recent than 1935 but he references it by section numbers long out of use.
He also has very odd notions about the typography of his messages. He has a fair grasp of HTML, enough to make his postings real eyesores.

If anyone has any info on this person who calls himself Assembler, I would appreciate it.

[Prof]

And, Lost Horizons takes a "New Road" into sovereignty:

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... 16&start=0

[Judge Roy Bean]

And, Lost Horizons takes a "New Road" into sovereignty:

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... 16&start=0

Actually it appears to me that some fools at Lost Horizons have stumbled onto the legendary road to sovereignty. What they don't know is that it's circular toll-road.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Shaped something like this:

[Pottapaug1938]

Assembler could have copies of all recorded appellate decisions, federal and state, and all federal and state laws and regulations, and he still wouldn't be able to utter a coherent or accurate statement unless, like a stopped clock, he just happened to be right due to circumstances out of his control. He seems to treat his found nuggets of wisdom as if they were part of some holy legal scripture, where each part is equally as inspired as the next, and equally as valid. How else could he cite, as authoritative, cases or laws that have been reversed, replaced or overturned and still believe that they have any validity beyond the historical?

[Judge Roy Bean]

... He seems to treat his found nuggets of wisdom as if they were part of some holy legal scripture, where each part is equally as inspired as the next, and equally as valid. How else could he cite, as authoritative, cases or laws that have been reversed, replaced or overturned and still believe that they have any validity beyond the historical?

You'd be surprised what people will find, bend, fold, spindle and mutilate into "the answer" to their problems.

Most of what I do in the realm of consumer advocacy deals with people who are what we would call "at risk borrowers." Like most people, they're in debt. Like a lot of people, they wait way too long to address the issue - they're overly-optimistic about their financial future. Then comes the looming disaster; a medical emergency, a car repo, job loss, separation, run-in with the IRS or a DUI (or any combination of those). All of a sudden the world is an evil place, conspiring to make their situation worse.

The more ignorant they are about legal or financial issues, the more likely they are to test the temperature of the water by jumping in. If their ego is big enough, they won't even admit the water is ice cold or boiling hot; they'd rather freeze or cook than admit they made serious mistakes along the way.