Seth Sundberg/Kurt Johnson

[adamthompson3232]

See the affidavit at the link below. And see pages 8 and 18 to read about the psycho known as Kurt Johnson. These guys never stop.

http://freedom-school.com/tax-matters/s ... plaint.pdf

[Demosthenes]

Good stuff.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Just imagine what was going through the investigator's mind when he sat there and watched Sundberg having all those documents shredded!

[adamthompson3232]

I just don't understand why people continue to try the same strategies that have sent so many others to prison. It doesn't make sense. But I wonder, do these guys really believe in the straw man or is it just a strategy to try to defraud the government?

[Lambkin]

I just don't understand why people continue to try the same strategies that have sent so many others to prison. It doesn't make sense. But I wonder, do these guys really believe in the straw man or is it just a strategy to try to defraud the government?

I believe the etiology varies:

• Some are true believers (ie, massive brain damage)
• Some seek to attack the government by any available means
• Some are grifters and con-men, people in it purely for some financial gain
• Some reflect a combination of the above

[Judge Roy Bean]

I believe the etiology varies:

• Some are true believers (ie, massive brain damage)
• Some seek to attack the government by any available means
• Some are grifters and con-men, people in it purely for some financial gain
• Some reflect a combination of the above

There are far more nuances beyond those three and any mixture of them; those are the tip of the iceberg.

Believe it or not, there are people who simply believe that government/authority is something to not only be suspicious of but something that needs to be actively thwarted at every opportunity. And there are people who are willing and able to engage in a spectrum of behaviors that reflect those beliefs.

When people see a confluence of government and commercial power being used against their interests, some will become creative; the ignorant will follow the short-term successes, even to their own doom, holding out that "the system" is designed to favor their enemy - which it is.

[Blup]

Keep in mind too that most of the folks who try to implement the stuff are unthinking followers of the scammers. They hate and fear the government and blindly follow anyone who offers them a way to stick it to the man.

These are not your high-functioning members of society.

[ASITStands]

Keep in mind too that most of the folks who try to implement the stuff are unthinking followers of the scammers. They hate and fear the government and blindly follow anyone who offers them a way to stick it to the man.

These are not your high-functioning members of society.

Yes.

These People run from one theory to another and never make any real progress toward stopping the government's authority over them. Most of the time, the government conducts a civil investigation of their tax filings and earnings, and after deficiency and collection procedures, they're in worse shape than before, making life miserable for everyone else.

We've seen many of them on this forum trying to defend their theories. Some few of them escape deeper into anonymity until they show up years later in a criminal indictment.

I agree with 'Demosthenes,' the affidavit is quite interesting, especially in the details of the scam and the names of those who were involved in the investigation. It's been converted to an indictment (2nd case) in the Northern District of California, 5:09-cr-00928-JF-1

[adamthompson3232]

Judge,

"...the ignorant will follow the short-term successes..."

What successes are you referring to? I have read about a few of these con artists and they all seem to end up with long prison sentences. Is there really any validity to some of this crap that enables any of them to have any semblance of "success"?

[Thule]

Judge,

"...the ignorant will follow the short-term successes..."

What successes are you referring to?

Sundberg got a refund check for some five millions, that's definetly a short-term success.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Judge,

"...the ignorant will follow the short-term successes..."

What successes are you referring to? I have read about a few of these con artists and they all seem to end up with long prison sentences. Is there really any validity to some of this crap that enables any of them to have any semblance of "success"?

There's no validity or legitimacy to any of them, but for every one of these people who are actually indicted and eventually convicted, there are probably a few who have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars stashed somewhere and most of them were probably involved in promoting the schemes.

[Lambkin]

I believe the etiology varies:

• Some are true believers (ie, massive brain damage)
• Some seek to attack the government by any available means
• Some are grifters and con-men, people in it purely for some financial gain
• Some reflect a combination of the above

There are far more nuances beyond those three and any mixture of them; those are the tip of the iceberg.

Believe it or not, there are people who simply believe that government/authority is something to not only be suspicious of but something that needs to be actively thwarted at every opportunity. And there are people who are willing and able to engage in a spectrum of behaviors that reflect those beliefs.

That is the second group I referred to: people who are completely opposed to government authority and will engage in opportunistic attacks which may seem absurd to outsiders but are justified by the world-view of "angry guy". (I'm sure you're right there are more variants.)

[Dezcad]

Judge,

"...the ignorant will follow the short-term successes..."

What successes are you referring to? I have read about a few of these con artists and they all seem to end up with long prison sentences. Is there really any validity to some of this crap that enables any of them to have any semblance of "success"?

The poster child of short term successes can be found at http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/MoreVictories.htm, some of which were discussed here.

[adamthompson3232]

Is the guy at that website retarded? Why would he post those checks? And why would anyone allow him to post their checks? Are these people really this dumb? I assume they are all in prison as a result of this?

[nolo contendere]

Mr. Sundberg has pled guilty...sentencing to follow
http://www.justice.gov/usao/can/press/2 ... press.html

[LPC]

The US has obtained a $5,000,000+ default judgment against Sundberg (and his fiance, Rashea Roberts) for the "erroneous refund."

United States v. Seth C. Sundberg et al., No. 3:09-cv-04085 (N.D. Cal. 8/22/2011).

[Judge Roy Bean]

A three month multimillionaire.