Gibberish abounds

[Judge Roy Bean]

This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. People facing financial trouble with lenders are passing this around and pointing to it as hope for their problems.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25286279/Paul ... rica-et-al

Somewhere down in there, buried in the ridiculous diatribe might even be a legitimate cause but there's no way to tell while trying to wade through it.

And worse, I can almost guarantee there are people doing the cut and paste thing with it all the while their mortgage servicer is maneuvering them into the foreclosure funnel.

The political angle is also enlightening; this buffoon blends anti-conservative ranting and sovereign messages into support for the administration's march toward socialism.

[grixit]

Disagree on characterization of administration, but considering how many of these schemes have a strong rightwing flavor, it seems only fair that the left get a turn too.

[Brandybuck]

it seems only fair that the left get a turn too.

Nuttery, crankiness and conspiracy mongering has never favored one wing or the other. Leftie loons are in as much abundance as rightie loons. Warning: gross generalizations ahead! If you're against big government (irs is teh devil!) you get labeled right wing, and if you're against big business (monsanto is poisoning my corn!) you get labeled left wing. And of course, if you're against a Democratic administration (obama is secrit mooslim) you're a right winger, and if you're against a Republican administration (bush blew up wtc7) you're a left winger.

[Pottapaug1938]

In my freshman Philosophy course (40 years ago), I learned something which has fascinated me ever since. We tend to think of our political spectrum in linear terms; but in the course I learned that the spectrum is more of a circle. When you get right down to it, those on the extremest left so despise government that they want to do away with it completely; and the same could be said for those on the extremest right. My ultra-right-wing roomie at the end of my sophomore year was furious when I suggested that many of his ideas had echoes on the Marxist left; but in fact they did -- the difference was essentially in the details.

[Brandybuck]

The "left eventually meets right" circle only makes sense if you have no definition for left vs right.

Another way to look at things is the Nolan Chart, despite it's high bias towards libertarians. A better set of axis (via David Brin) is size of government (statist versus anarchist) and attitude towards property (egalitarian vs propertarian). Taking some famous political personages, you can put Stalin in the upper left, Franco in upper right, Proudhon in lower left, and Rand in lower right.

Here's a quick presentation of various political charts, including Nolan's and Brin's:
http://files.meetup.com/1192527/presentation.pdf

[Pottapaug1938]

The "left eventually meets right" circle only makes sense if you have no definition for left vs right.

Another way to look at things is the Nolan Chart, despite it's high bias towards libertarians. A better set of axis (via David Brin) is size of government (statist versus anarchist) and attitude towards property (egalitarian vs propertarian). Taking some famous political personages, you can put Stalin in the upper left, Franco in upper right, Proudhon in lower left, and Rand in lower right.

Here's a quick presentation of various political charts, including Nolan's and Brin's:
http://files.meetup.com/1192527/presentation.pdf

It makes sense when you consider that the extremest left dreams of state power withering away, and that the extremest right dreams of there being no evil government to restrict the freedom to do as one damn well pleases (except that eveyone will be so civic-minded that they will cooperate to run their New Society).

[Brandybuck]

It makes sense when you consider that the extremest left dreams of state power withering away, and that the extremest right dreams of there being no evil government to restrict the freedom to do as one damn well pleases (except that eveyone will be so civic-minded that they will cooperate to run their New Society).

You can also make the case that the extremest of these also end up being totalitarian. Which is why you need at least two axis in a political spectrum. Stalin is as distant from Bakunin as he is from Hitler.

[dr poormouth]

In my freshman Philosophy course (40 years ago), I learned something which has fascinated me ever since. We tend to think of our political spectrum in linear terms; but in the course I learned that the spectrum is more of a circle. When you get right down to it, those on the extremest left so despise government that they want to do away with it completely; and the same could be said for those on the extremest right. My ultra-right-wing roomie at the end of my sophomore year was furious when I suggested that many of his ideas had echoes on the Marxist left; but in fact they did -- the difference was essentially in the details.