Biggest sovereign leaders/names/gurus

[The Jurist]

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not?

Well, they're claiming state's rights, but they're not acting on the claims nor urging others to act on them. I don't think that qualifies as a soverun.

Hey there, Art. Hope you are having a wonderful afternoon.

I guess I am trying to make sense about what you just stated above. I found when I started writing years ago that people were not able to ask me to fill-in some gaps if I was not around to do so.

Let me take a stab here on what you are attempting to say here, advice is illegal?

[Arthur Rubin]

Advising others to do what is, in fact, violating the law, is conspiracy (provided the others act on the advice), and illegal. Stating that you are violating the law, without advising others to do so, is not.

Note, IANAL, and I would defer to the opinions of the lawyers, here.

[bmielke]

Hey, bmielke, I think reading and comprehension of what you read comes before civics.

Again the topic is "Biggest sovereign leaders". I suggested the legislators of the states as they are claiming state's rights. It is simple as that.

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not? They must be wacky for some reason to be claiming their rights. That is the case with the bulk of the people here on Quatloos, right? That is, barring stupidity, anyone that does not want to play the Marxist law game established by the United States is a whack-job, correct?

Again, I am finding that some of you people tend to go off-point more than a broken compass. I know I have done so myself here as I know the intent of this thread, but I am just making a point.

Yes it does, I am so sorry you failed both.

The States are standing on their soapboxes and yelling "WE HAVE RIGHTS!"

If I go to my town square and yell "I HAVE RIGHTS!" does that make me a leader?

No, if I go to my town square after inducing my neighbors to meet me there and together while chanting "WE HAVE RIGHTS!" We commence a march on Nashville with me in the lead am I the leader?

Yes. I have taken action.

The states have not taken any action and no one is following their lead.

I understand there are many fine programs to assist adults with basic reading you may want to look into one.

[Dr. Caligari]

Again the topic is "Biggest sovereign leaders". I suggested the legislators of the states as they are claiming state's rights. It is simple as that.

Countries are sovereign. To a limited extent, the 50 states of the U.S. are sovereign; the extent to which they are can be a topic of legitimate political debate, which is largely off-topic on Quatloos.

What this board is about is gurus who falsely claim that individuals within the U.S. can somehow claim to be "sovereign" and thereby become immune from paying taxes or obeying other laws. That is a scam, and that is what we on Quatloos are fighting.

[The Jurist]

Hey, bmielke, I think reading and comprehension of what you read comes before civics.

Again the topic is "Biggest sovereign leaders". I suggested the legislators of the states as they are claiming state's rights. It is simple as that.

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not? They must be wacky for some reason to be claiming their rights. That is the case with the bulk of the people here on Quatloos, right? That is, barring stupidity, anyone that does not want to play the Marxist law game established by the United States is a whack-job, correct?

Again, I am finding that some of you people tend to go off-point more than a broken compass. I know I have done so myself here as I know the intent of this thread, but I am just making a point.

Yes it does, I am so sorry you failed both.

The States are standing on their soapboxes and yelling "WE HAVE RIGHTS!"

If I go to my town square and yell "I HAVE RIGHTS!" does that make me a leader?

No, if I go to my town square after inducing my neighbors to meet me there and together while chanting "WE HAVE RIGHTS!" We commence a march on Nashville with me in the lead am I the leader?

Yes. I have taken action.

The states have not taken any action and no one is following their lead.

I understand there are many fine programs to assist adults with basic reading you may want to look into one.

Excuse me, what?

RED ALERT!!! Questions evasion.

[The Jurist]

Again the topic is "Biggest sovereign leaders". I suggested the legislators of the states as they are claiming state's rights. It is simple as that.

Countries are sovereign. To a limited extent, the 50 states of the U.S. are sovereign; the extent to which they are can be a topic of legitimate political debate, which is largely off-topic on Quatloos.

What this board is about is gurus who falsely claim that individuals within the U.S. can somehow claim to be "sovereign" and thereby become immune from paying taxes or obeying other laws. That is a scam, and that is what we on Quatloos are fighting.

Greetings good Doctor,

I tend to like you thus far as you speak with honesty and clarity.

The first issue you have addressed I would agree with in whole, and thank you for your candor. The second issue you have addressed I also understand and agree with, as I spend a lot of time doing the same. Understanding that things are not always perfect, I am an advocate of evidence of which ensures justice.

Have a good rest of the afternoon and weekend.

[bmielke]

Hey, bmielke, I think reading and comprehension of what you read comes before civics.

Again the topic is "Biggest sovereign leaders". I suggested the legislators of the states as they are claiming state's rights. It is simple as that.

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not? They must be wacky for some reason to be claiming their rights. That is the case with the bulk of the people here on Quatloos, right? That is, barring stupidity, anyone that does not want to play the Marxist law game established by the United States is a whack-job, correct?

Again, I am finding that some of you people tend to go off-point more than a broken compass. I know I have done so myself here as I know the intent of this thread, but I am just making a point.

Yes it does, I am so sorry you failed both.

The States are standing on their soapboxes and yelling "WE HAVE RIGHTS!"

If I go to my town square and yell "I HAVE RIGHTS!" does that make me a leader?

No, if I go to my town square after inducing my neighbors to meet me there and together while chanting "WE HAVE RIGHTS!" We commence a march on Nashville with me in the lead am I the leader?

Yes. I have taken action.

The states have not taken any action and no one is following their lead.

I understand there are many fine programs to assist adults with basic reading you may want to look into one.

Excuse me, what?

RED ALERT!!! Questions evasion.

What is it that you cannot understand?

At first I thought it was the difference between a resolution and an act. I gave you all you needed to get your answer.

Then I thought you still didn't understand it, so I explained it.

You made a comment about reading comprehension, kind of a douche bag thing to say, but I figured you just weren't following my logic so I explained that to you

Now I have no idea what you don't understand.

My Adult Education comment was a little below the belt.

ETA: I didn't want to look like I needed adult education.

[Nikki]

My Adult Education was a little below the belt.

He's annoyed because you hit him square on the brain.

[bmielke]

My Adult Education comment was a little below the belt.

He's annoyed because you hit him square on the brain.

I am beginning to think we need some of this



I edited my comment and will fix the other one so I don't look like I am in need of adult education

[The Operative]

Hey, bmielke, I think reading and comprehension of what you read comes before civics.

Again the topic is "Biggest sovereign leaders". I suggested the legislators of the states as they are claiming state's rights. It is simple as that.

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not? They must be wacky for some reason to be claiming their rights. That is the case with the bulk of the people here on Quatloos, right? That is, barring stupidity, anyone that does not want to play the Marxist law game established by the United States is a whack-job, correct?

Again, I am finding that some of you people tend to go off-point more than a broken compass. I know I have done so myself here as I know the intent of this thread, but I am just making a point.

Yes it does, I am so sorry you failed both.

The States are standing on their soapboxes and yelling "WE HAVE RIGHTS!"

If I go to my town square and yell "I HAVE RIGHTS!" does that make me a leader?

No, if I go to my town square after inducing my neighbors to meet me there and together while chanting "WE HAVE RIGHTS!" We commence a march on Nashville with me in the lead am I the leader?

Yes. I have taken action.

The states have not taken any action and no one is following their lead.

I understand there are many fine programs to assist adults with basic reading you may want to look into one.

Excuse me, what?

RED ALERT!!! Questions evasion.

Cancel red alert, bmielke, for all intent and purposes, did answer the question about members of the legislature being a sovereign leader. The second question in your post contains assertions or beliefs that would have to be explained in detail before the question could be answered.

BTW, sovereign citizens and the movement attempt to ignore or circumvent laws enacted by states and/or the federal government that were enacted through the utilization of the governmental powers that were 1) not prohibited to the states and/or 2) expressly granted to the federal government under the Constitution. Sovereign citizens claim that the federal government cannot have power over them if they renounce their citizenship (without following the legal procedures to do so) or declare themselves a natural man, or some other use of magic words.

A declatory statement by a state legislature expressing their belief that the federal government has encroached upon state rights or has usurped powers that were not expressly granted to the federal government under the Constitution, is not the definition of "sovereign leader/guru" that we utilize here. Even the briefest cursory perusal of this and other threads on this board should have made that clear to the reader.

[Thule]

My Adult Education was a little below the belt.

He's annoyed because you hit him square on the brain.

Hmmmm, bmielke is a nice shot. I can't even see the target.

[bmielke]

My Adult Education was a little below the belt.

He's annoyed because you hit him square on the brain.

Hmmmm, bmielke is a nice shot. I can't even see the target.

It takes lots and lots of practice, a steady hand, a more than a little luck.

[The Jurist]

Considering that Dr. Caligari is the only one to respond without being all over the board and curt,

What is it that you cannot understand?

Why you went into something that was not the issue. I used evidence of some guys being sovereign leaders: that was all it was for. I have to admit, your answer was pretty entertaining, in a good way. Standup routine on the horizon, Bmielke?

He's annoyed because you hit him square on the brain.

Hey, are you two sleeping together? **smile**

I am beginning to think we need some of this

Come on... Just attempting to get some things straight. **wink**

Cancel red alert, bmielke, for all intent and purposes, did answer the question about members of the legislature being a sovereign leader.

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not? They must be wacky for some reason to be claiming their rights. That is the case with the bulk of the people here on Quatloos, right? That is, barring stupidity, anyone that does not want to play the Marxist law game established by the United States is a whack-job, correct?

I was interested in the last question there, of which you somewhat addressed in the next part, Operative. Note the comment about barring stupidity.

BTW, sovereign citizens and the movement attempt to ignore or circumvent laws enacted by states and/or the federal government that were enacted through the utilization of the governmental powers that were 1) not prohibited to the states and/or 2) expressly granted to the federal government under the Constitution. Sovereign citizens claim that the federal government cannot have power over them if they renounce their citizenship (without following the legal procedures to do so) or declare themselves a natural man, or some other use of magic words.

I understand the issue you have expressed and cannot agree with you more. I think it has been noted in the forum that I do not agree with the so-called "sovereign citizen" position.

A declatory statement by a state legislature expressing their belief that the federal government has encroached upon state rights or has usurped powers that were not expressly granted to the federal government under the Constitution, is not the definition of "sovereign leader/guru" that we utilize here. Even the briefest cursory perusal of this and other threads on this board should have made that clear to the reader.

Thanks, Operative. I made that clear in my post...

Again, I am finding that some of you people tend to go off-point more than a broken compass. I know I have done so myself here as I know the intent of this thread, but I am just making a point.

Thanks!

[The Operative]

Cancel red alert, bmielke, for all intent and purposes, did answer the question about members of the legislature being a sovereign leader.

The reason I suggested that the state legislators should be in the list of the "biggest sovereign leaders" is that they are by claiming state's rights, are they not? They must be wacky for some reason to be claiming their rights. That is the case with the bulk of the people here on Quatloos, right? That is, barring stupidity, anyone that does not want to play the Marxist law game established by the United States is a whack-job, correct?

I was interested in the last question there, of which you somewhat addressed in the next part, Operative. Note the comment about barring stupidity.

I note that you completely ignored my statement about the other question in your post contains assertions or beliefs that would have to be explained in detail before the question could be answered.

BTW, sovereign citizens and the movement attempt to ignore or circumvent laws enacted by states and/or the federal government that were enacted through the utilization of the governmental powers that were 1) not prohibited to the states and/or 2) expressly granted to the federal government under the Constitution. Sovereign citizens claim that the federal government cannot have power over them if they renounce their citizenship (without following the legal procedures to do so) or declare themselves a natural man, or some other use of magic words.

I understand the issue you have expressed and cannot agree with you more. I think it has been noted in the forum that I do not agree with the so-called "sovereign citizen" position.

You may not agree with the main "sovereign citizen" position, but your website purports to allow a person to somehow do a "correction of nationality", which is patent nonsense and very "sovereignish". There is only ONE method for renouncing U.S. citizenship: a person has to actually travel to another country (that means LEAVE the 50 states and U.S. territories), go to the U.S. Embassy or consulate in that country and sign an oath of renunciation.

[Dr. Caligari]

Considering that Dr. Caligari is the only one to respond without being all over the board and curt,

...perhaps you can answer the question which I have asked you numerous times, where does the 14th Amendment create a "private law system"? Or perhaps you can answer another question I have asked you, where do you gert the idea that to cite case law is to violate due process?

[bmielke]

1. I am pretty sure I am not sleeping with Nikki. I don't know who she is or where she lives but I am pretty sure that she doesn't live anywhere near where I live, and I am also fairly certain there is a large age difference between us.

On to more serious things...

Your whole argument boils down to, "The state legislatures passed this so that makes them leaders."

Leaders must do more than talk about something. Look at it like a meeting. If you go to a Board Meeting for a Non Profit, there is a president his sets the agenda and makes sure the meeting stays on track that is his action.

Now with the State Legislatures yes they are making statements about their rights. Ok they might have a point, or they might not we are not here to discuss that. What action are they taking?

Compare the president of a non profit with the man on the street corner handing out flyers proclaiming the end of the world at the hands of a vengeful angry god if we don't repent. Is he a leader?

Possibly, but what makes him a leader is the fact that he has ten other people handing out the same materials. He is not a leader for broadcasting his message.

What will come of the states passing these resolutions?

If they pass an act, something like, "Be it enacted by the 107 General Assembly of the State of Tennessee that all new legislation passed by the Congress of the United States Shall be required to pass by a 2/3 majority in both houses of this honorable body before they are effective on the citizens of the Great State of Tennessee. Enforcement of this act shall be up to the Department of safety, any person trying to enforce an ineffective law shall be guilty of a Class A Felony" Then they might be leaders.

But...

Tennessee's Resolution

Does not make Tennessee any kind of leader. Hell until last year (and they may have done it last year) Tennessee had a annual Resolution honoring Nathan Bedford Forest. Our legislature is locka chock block full of dumbasses.

[Gregg]

And how many of them are resolutions?
How many are actually bills that have best of my been signed into law?

Better question: What does any of that have to do with Bork's 14th Amendment theories?

I was gonna bring up that a "proposed resolution" is a pretty low bar, the biggest nutjob member of any state legislature pandering to the biggest nutjob constituents can write up a resolution declaring that Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, he just got carried away and it's in. By your demonstrated standards, that would mean that Indiana has endorsed the Nazi Party.
Sorry, we don't play by those rules. Show me a resolution that PASSED, not one that was proposed.

(in the 50's an Indiana legislator proposed just such a resolution. To the best of my knowledge he was not re-elected)

[Gregg]

There is only ONE method for renouncing U.S. citizenship: a person has to actually travel to another country (that means LEAVE the 50 states and U.S. territories), go to the U.S. Embassy or consulate in that country and sign an oath of renunciation.

If the Jurist would like to do this, I'll pony up bus fare to Toronto!

(of course, taxes are generally higher in Canada, so in order to fulfill your man objective you'll have to move on after that, good luck as you won't have a passport, but for low tax rates and good ole sovrun style freedoms, you might want to consider tax free havens in North Korea, Somalia, Myanmar and certain regions of Afghanistan) You should fit right in, but you will have to take your own toilet paper.

[bmielke]

And how many of them are resolutions?
How many are actually bills that have best of my been signed into law?

Better question: What does any of that have to do with Bork's 14th Amendment theories?

I was gonna bring up that a "proposed resolution" is a pretty low bar, the biggest nutjob member of any state legislature pandering to the biggest nutjob constituents can write up a resolution declaring that Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, he just got carried away and it's in. By your demonstrated standards, that would mean that Indiana has endorsed the Nazi Party.
Sorry, we don't play by those rules. Show me a resolution that PASSED, not one that was proposed.

(in the 50's an Indiana legislator proposed just such a resolution. To the best of my knowledge he was not re-elected)

Tennessee's that is linked twice by me was passed by both houses (I think, i never do anything with resolutions, so I have no idea how to tell if they are fully valid, it has both signatures) and was approved by the governor.

[bmielke]

North Korea, Somalia, Myanmar and certain regions of Afghanistan) You should fit right in, but you will have to take your own toilet paper.

Also right after you sign your declaration but before you set up your tent you are going to want to acquire an AK 47.