Sovereign nonsense

[ashlynne39]

I post on another board where every so often a sovereign will pop up and rear their ugly head. Last week's sovereign was someone with the handle JeniferJohnson who I located on a number of other sites. This week's sovereign is someone named StefenRW. Their shtick involves hanging anyone and everyone for treason that doesn't agree with their version of the Constitution. This is somewhat ironic to me given that they both say that the Constitution is nothing more than a contract that can be ignored in favor of sovereignty courts which are the highest courts of all . .blah, blah, blah. Both of them are big fans of Rev. Manning who held the show trial of Obama and Columbia a month ago.

This week's sovereign also posted a link to Sovereign Filing Solutions. I assume you guys have heard of this site but thought I'd post it to be sure. http://www.sovereignfilings.com/

I guess my big question is whether this is typical sovereign speak. I haven't readd much of the hanging for treason talk as I've been researching sovereign citizens and wanted to follow up and see if this is maybe something new they're calling for.

[Nikki]

You are not the only one monitoring those forums.

Some of the lurkers (and posters) are people who's job it is to protect the people who are being threatened with hanging or other violent acts.

Those threats are always taken very seriously.

Unfortunately, it's usually a huge waste of the time and resources it takes to track down the brave person hiding behind his keyboard.

Equally unfortunately, some of them do attempt to act on their threats.

[Demosthenes]

I guess my big question is whether this is typical sovereign speak. I haven't readd much of the hanging for treason talk as I've been researching sovereign citizens and wanted to follow up and see if this is maybe something new they're calling for.

Yes, it's unfortunately quite typical sovereign behavior for the last couple of years.

Just in case the feds aren't monitoring all of the sites you see, please point out the most egregious stuff here. We have a number of regular law enforcement lurkers on Quatloos who will make sure that the threats are seen by the appropriate people.

[Cathulhu]

Speaking as a burned out psychotherapist, yes, this is indeed typical. I believe that megalomania plays a role here, for the obvious reason that becoming a sovereign requires you to have an ego that allows you to consider yourself greater than our entire society, laws, and culture. Note our resident troll, who is deeply flattered by the attention he so desperately seeks. Classic negative reinforcement seeking is what it looks like, but in Harv's case I'm thinking there's a profit motive (he sure pushes that book that put Pete in jail, doesn't he?) as well as a truly ridiculous need for attention.

[fortinbras]

I looked at the Sovereign Filings website you linked, and I must say it's a sweet little racket. I almost regret having just a smidgen too much honesty to have thought of it myself. At least I would have used SpellCheck. Any guess as to how much money this website is raking in??

[wserra]

This week's sovereign also posted a link to Sovereign Filing Solutions. I assume you guys have heard of this site but thought I'd post it to be sure. http://www.sovereignfilings.com/

Mmm. A P.O. Box address and payment only by PayPal.

Better than fogging a mirror.

[grixit]

Also notice that for some services they require power of attorney.

[Thule]

Mmm. A P.O. Box address and payment only by PayPal.

Better than fogging a mirror.

And their site is registered to Wild West Domains, which smells awfully lot like MLM

http://www.wildwestdomains.com/gdshop/default.asp

[Cathulhu]

Ashlynne said:I guess my big question is whether this is typical sovereign speak. I haven't readd much of the hanging for treason talk as I've been researching sovereign citizens and wanted to follow up and see if this is maybe something new they're calling for.

First off, also from me--welcome to Quatloos, where sane people actually discuss the theories rationalized by scammers. I'm a recent member too. I can tell you from personal experience that the sovrun nonsense has been pretty much the same for the 30 years I worked for Treasury. There's been no observable change; the individuals involved fall into a couple categories;

1. Scammers who sell this crap to:

2. People so either dumb or angry or psycho enough to suspend common sense and logic. These also tend to be loudly Christian, with the implied deal for Jesus being "I'll praise you louder than anyone, so make sure I get away with this."

Just my own observations, refined through 30 years, two bomb threats and a few other experiences with the folks who drive public roads, send their kids to public schools, but aren't U.S. citizens when taxpaying time rolls around. What's truly pathetic is that some of them are so poor and stupid they screw themselves out of a refund. Every single one I've had to deal with in person has shown a desperate need to get attention, any attention, from anyone.

[ashlynne39]

Thanks for all the input. I don't know how, but until recently (last 6 months probably) I wasn't really even aware that these sorts of people were out there. Other than militias, I just hadn't heard of tax protestors or sovereign citizens nonsense. I'm pretty conservative and a Christian and found a website that I thought was somewhat like minded (and mostly it is) but as I started looking at some of the people on there, I realized that as conservative as I am, these are not "my people."

What surprises me is how people get caught up in these movements. For me, the first time I saw this sort of drivel, I was immediately suspicious and recognized it as utter nonsense. That's how I found Quatloos as I was looking for a way to respond. What I've seen as I watched this one 9/12 board is that the people who seem to be getting caught up in things like tax protests, sovereign citizen and restore america talk are the desperate. They so hate Obama and our current Congress (both sides of the aisle) that they are clinging on to anyone and anything that offers them a solution. The problem is that they aren't really looking at what the suggested solution is. Most of the time when I point out that it's sovereign citizen speak or tax protestor speak people wise up but there are a few on the board that in my opinion are just so desperate and at the same time just aren't that smart and that they will believe anything.

[Cathulhu]

You're right on that if you're a sincere Christian, these are certainly not your people. Frankly, the scammers selling their crap tend to be loudest and most hypocritical; these people are far too violent and stupid and self-serving. Especially if you disagree with them. I respect sincerity in one's beliefs; but there's no sincerity to be found in the sovereign crap.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
What surprises me is how people get caught up in these movements. ...

From experience I can only tell you that people in desperate circumstances will grasp at and hang on to almost anything if they feel powerless or overwhelmed and especially if they believe they've been taken advantage of.

Once a bully/predator is identified, the natural survival objective has to be to gather as a group for protection, even if it means a few of those on the fringes of the herd are lost.

[ashlynne39]

You're right on that if you're a sincere Christian, these are certainly not your people. Frankly, the scammers selling their crap tend to be loudest and most hypocritical; these people are far too violent and stupid and self-serving. Especially if you disagree with them. I respect sincerity in one's beliefs; but there's no sincerity to be found in the sovereign crap.

Yes, the violence and general criminal element associated with the movements bothers me greatly.