Georgia militia arrests

[wserra]

Y'know, I really have trouble differentiating between violent wackos on the right and violent wackos on the left.

Violent wacko on the right: "I'm entitled to get my way, and I'll kill you if you try to stop me."

Violent wacko on the left: "I'm entitled to get my way, and I'll kill you if you try to stop me."

Ideology seems not to play a major role.

[JamesVincent]

It just seems.... funny.... that the people who are known to lean to the left side of the fence completely ignore the Occupiers wandering around with signs saying lovely things like "my only friends are cop killers" or "have you killed a cop today?" or " death to politicians" or things of that ilk yet would slam a right leaning group who did the same thing. Like I said.... funny. Within days of the Occupy movement being created and gaining momentum they were calling for violence to meet their goals, without even having any true goals to meet and a survey done at one point, that was quoted here IIRC stated that 33%? was in favor of using violence. Yet the conservatives were referred to as the Reichtwing. Hmmmm. Funny. Seems to me the line of wackos is kinda blurry there and people need to step back and think about which side they really are on. I think its getting to the point wheres its not right or left anymore. Its just wackos and normal people. And I still stand by the statement, this will draw a little heat off of the Occupy morons for a few days until they do something else stupid and thens its all them again.

[Pottapaug1938]

It just seems.... funny.... that the people who are known to lean to the left side of the fence completely ignore the Occupiers wandering around with signs saying lovely things like "my only friends are cop killers" or "have you killed a cop today?" or " death to politicians" or things of that ilk yet would slam a right leaning group who did the same thing. Like I said.... funny. Within days of the Occupy movement being created and gaining momentum they were calling for violence to meet their goals, without even having any true goals to meet and a survey done at one point, that was quoted here IIRC stated that 33%? was in favor of using violence. Yet the conservatives were referred to as the Reichtwing. Hmmmm. Funny. Seems to me the line of wackos is kinda blurry there and people need to step back and think about which side they really are on. I think its getting to the point wheres its not right or left anymore. Its just wackos and normal people. And I still stand by the statement, this will draw a little heat off of the Occupy morons for a few days until they do something else stupid and thens its all them again.

One thing that I've seen at left-leaning demonstrations, over the last 40+ years, is that more than a few groups show up and try to co-opt the original purpose of the group, or seek to promote their own cause by Proclaiming Solidarity with the larger group. The original OB people were strictly nonviolent; but soon afterwards the more radical (and louder) people started showing up and demanding Direct Action of some sort.

In the past, I've used the term "Lexington Kool-Aid" to refer to the figurative beverage of those rightwing wackos who imagine themselves, on Lexington Green, firearm in hand, waiting to repel the forces of the Ebil Gummint. I've also used the term "Winter Palace Kool-Aid" to refer to the similar beverage of those wannabe revolutuionaries who romantically imagine themselves storming the Citadels of Power, as did the Bolsheviks in Petrograd in 1917 (of course, they leave out more than a few historical facts, such as the fact that the Provisional Government was a "house of cards" prone to collapse, the fact that the Chinese revolution was essentially a conventional military campaign, the fact that the socialist governments of eastern Europe came about due to the effects of Soviet occupation, and so on). Sometimes, I think, the Winter Palace Kool-Aid types know that they will fail in their efforts, but crave martyrdom (or at least physical injury) that will allow them or their comrades to claim that they Suffered For The Cause.

[Demosthenes]

Y'know, I really have trouble differentiating between violent wackos on the right and violent wackos on the left.

Violent wacko on the right: "I'm entitled to get my way, and I'll kill you if you try to stop me."

Violent wacko on the left: "I'm entitled to get my way, and I'll kill you if you try to stop me."

Ideology seems not to play a major role.

Yep. They just take turns at which side is currently the violent nutjob movement du jour. For the past couple of decades, it's most definitely right wing violence. Ten years from now, who knows?

[Pottapaug1938]

It just seems.... funny.... that the people who are known to lean to the left side of the fence completely ignore the Occupiers wandering around with signs saying lovely things like "my only friends are cop killers" or "have you killed a cop today?" or " death to politicians" or things of that ilk yet would slam a right leaning group who did the same thing. Like I said.... funny. Within days of the Occupy movement being created and gaining momentum they were calling for violence to meet their goals, without even having any true goals to meet and a survey done at one point, that was quoted here IIRC stated that 33%? was in favor of using violence. Yet the conservatives were referred to as the Reichtwing. Hmmmm. Funny. Seems to me the line of wackos is kinda blurry there and people need to step back and think about which side they really are on. I think its getting to the point wheres its not right or left anymore. Its just wackos and normal people. And I still stand by the statement, this will draw a little heat off of the Occupy morons for a few days until they do something else stupid and thens its all them again.

One thing that I've seen at left-leaning demonstrations, over the last 40+ years, is that more than a few groups show up and try to co-opt the original purpose of the group, or seek to promote their own cause by Proclaiming Solidarity with the larger group. The original OB people were strictly nonviolent; but soon afterwards the more radical (and louder) people started showing up and demanding Direct Action of some sort.

In the past, I've used the term "Lexington Kool-Aid" to refer to the figurative beverage of those rightwing wackos who imagine themselves, on Lexington Green, firearm in hand, waiting to repel the forces of the Ebil Gummint. I've also used the term "Winter Palace Kool-Aid" to refer to the similar beverage of those wannabe revolutuionaries who romantically imagine themselves storming the Citadels of Power, as did the Bolsheviks in Petrograd in 1917 (of course, they leave out more than a few historical facts, such as the fact that the Provisional Government was a "house of cards" prone to collapse, the fact that the Chinese revolution was essentially a conventional military campaign, the fact that the socialist governments of eastern Europe came about due to the effects of Soviet occupation, and so on). Sometimes, I think, the Winter Palace Kool-Aid types know that they will fail in their efforts, but crave martyrdom (or at least physical injury) that will allow them or their comrades to claim that they Suffered For The Cause.

The wackos behind the violence in Oakland are a case in point. The Occupy movement is not anticapitalist; but one of the leaders of the disturbances proudly proclaimed that he is. I'm sure that this guy dreams of himself leading fellow revolutionaries down Pennsylvania Avenue someday, to "reclaim" power from the Evil Capitalist Government.

[Arthur Rubin]

The wackos behind the violence in Oakland are a case in point. The Occupy movement is not anticapitalist;

Actually, to the extent the movement has a theme, it's anticapitalist, but not necessarily anticapitalism. It's the individual capitalists that they want to jail.

[Pottapaug1938]

The wackos behind the violence in Oakland are a case in point. The Occupy movement is not anticapitalist;

Actually, to the extent the movement has a theme, it's anticapitalist, but not necessarily anticapitalism. It's the individual capitalists that they want to jail.

I think that they are rather more opposed to greed and excess in capitalism and individual capitalists, rather than an entire class; and I think that, rather than jail anyone, they would as a rule find a more moderate way to rein in the excesses. To give a f'rinstance, they don't want to jail the CEO of Veeblefetzer Industries; they just don't want him laying off 10,000 employees and then getting his compliant Board of Directors to award him a $10 million bonus for (doing his job) saving the company money.

[fortinbras]

I believe they had made plans - and maybe efforts - to acquire explosives, anthrax, and the like. They might be too geezered to actually use it, if acquired, but that wouldn't mean that a younger, more ambitious group wouldn't take it up and run with it.

[Prof]

Back to the original topic. I asked my dad's opinion on this, and he has a theory that may be pretty close to the mark. He suspects that these 4 guys have been on the government's radar screen for a long time due to Klan membership or something of that nature, and that they finally have enough evidence to put them away on something, so they will use it. I mean, according to some stories, these guys held meetings at a Waffle House in Toccoa. Seems an odd place to plot a revolution.

But a great place to have country ham with eggs!!! (There are no Waffle Houses this far West so it's I-Hop or -- Heaven forbid --Denny's.)

[Judge Roy Bean]

... Seems an odd place to plot a revolution.

But a great place to have country ham with eggs!!! (There are no Waffle Houses this far West so it's I-Hop or -- Heaven forbid --Denny's.)

Huh?

You can't swing a cat by the tail and not hit one up in the DFW area and I know there's at least one in Austin as well as one in La Porte.

[Demosthenes]

I believe they had made plans - and maybe efforts - to acquire explosives, anthrax, and the like. They might be too geezered to actually use it, if acquired, but that wouldn't mean that a younger, more ambitious group wouldn't take it up and run with it.

Mid to late 60s is a geezer? They're the same age as Ed and Elaine Brown. Why would it take a young man's finger to push a button to blow up a building or distribute a biological weapon?

One defendant was a lab tech at the Department of Agriculture (ricin is made with castor beans), one of them was a contractor at the Center for Disease Control, one of them was a 30 year veteran in the Navy with experience in explosives, and one of them was a leader in the Georgia militia.

They had a three-pronged attack planned. 1) Assassinate four or five handpicked people in government using guns and explosives. No names were mentioned in the affidavits, but it sounds like DOJ lawyers and federal judges were high on the "bucket list." 2) Bomb two federal buildings using explosives. 3) Kill as many people as possible in a handful of cities using ricin.

They didn't just meet at Waffle Houses, they already had a test batch of castor beans ready to go, and were in the planning stages of building a clean room/hood in an outbuilding on their property, and you may think that their age was a factored that kept them from acting, it was actually a factor behind their decision to risk death, which they knew was a serious problem when handling a biological weapon.

They had already scouted two building to blow up (an IRS building and an ATF building, both in Atlanta) and were choosing between five cities to spread their biological weapon (DC, Newark, Jacksonville, Atlanta, and New Orleans.) A third prong of their attack would involve shooting DOJ attorneys and federal judges, which is why they were trying to get silencers.

They'd already chosen their first target to assassinate using a car bomb on November 1st, and one week before their arrests, they purchased explosives from an undercover FBI agent.

Botulism was their biological weapon of choice but they complained that they didn't have the financial means to acquire it. Ricin, in comparison, is very easy to make. In the mid 1990s, a group of yahoos called the Minnesota Patriot Council created enough ricin to kill 100+ people out of a recipe they found in Soldier of Fortune magazine. An ex-wife turned them in before they had a chance to use it.

[Demosthenes]

Back to the original topic. I asked my dad's opinion on this, and he has a theory that may be pretty close to the mark. He suspects that these 4 guys have been on the government's radar screen for a long time due to Klan membership or something of that nature, and that they finally have enough evidence to put them away on something, so they will use it. I mean, according to some stories, these guys held meetings at a Waffle House in Toccoa. Seems an odd place to plot a revolution.

That isn't what happened. The group of four was actually a group of five, and when one of them was arrested on a state felony case, he used his knowledge of the planned shootings/bombings/ricin attacks to soften his sentence. After he cut his deal, he wore a wire to most of the meetings. A conspiracy is only as strong as its weakest link.

[JamesVincent]

Trying to get silencers? Silencers are relatively easy to make. If they were able to get their hands on recipes to create biological weapons then they should of have been able to get a hold of plans for them. One shots ( if you pardon the pun) can be done with household items and super easy ones that can be used for a few shots and then gum up can be done on the super cheap in almost any garage workshop. Good ones require a decent machine shop though. Theres even easier ways to silence a weapon though that dont require silencers per se, guess they never thought of them though.

[Demosthenes]

Trying to get silencers? Silencers are relatively easy to make.

Which they knew and they were currently weighing their options. Bringing in a machinist was problematic, however, since they were trying to limit the number of people who could fink on them.

If they were able to get their hands on recipes to create biological weapons

The instructions to make ricin are readily available for free online.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Back to the original topic. I asked my dad's opinion on this, and he has a theory that may be pretty close to the mark. He suspects that these 4 guys have been on the government's radar screen for a long time due to Klan membership or something of that nature, and that they finally have enough evidence to put them away on something, so they will use it. I mean, according to some stories, these guys held meetings at a Waffle House in Toccoa. Seems an odd place to plot a revolution.

Revolutions usually get started in bars.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Trying to get silencers? Silencers are relatively easy to make.

Which they knew and they were currently weighing their options. Bringing in a machinist was problematic, however, since they were trying to limit the number of people who could fink on them.

If they were able to get their hands on recipes to create biological weapons

The instructions to make ricin are readily available for free online.

There's a catch. Follow that recipe and you're liable to end up killing yourself.

[webhick]

The instructions to make ricin are readily available for free online.

There's a catch. Follow that recipe and you're liable to end up killing yourself.

Sounds like a self-correcting problem to me.

[grixit]

Back to the original topic. I asked my dad's opinion on this, and he has a theory that may be pretty close to the mark. He suspects that these 4 guys have been on the government's radar screen for a long time due to Klan membership or something of that nature, and that they finally have enough evidence to put them away on something, so they will use it. I mean, according to some stories, these guys held meetings at a Waffle House in Toccoa. Seems an odd place to plot a revolution.

Revolutions usually get started in bars.

Like the Green Dragon Tavern. Or that place in Munich.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Waffle House? Bars? Europe must have more erudite revolution plotters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetham%27s_Library

[wserra]

Not very bright, are you?

Scott, why do you have that permanent chip on your shoulder?