Bob Paudert on tour

[Lambkin]

http://www2.dothaneagle.com/news/2011/d ... r-2838347/

When West Memphis, Ark., police officer Bill Evans pulled over what looked to be a church van with a father and son in the front seat, he didn’t have a reason to be concerned for his safety.

Just minutes later, Evans and fellow officer Brandon Paudert lay dead, gunned down by the passenger, 16-year-old Joe Kane, after a brief skirmish with his father, Jerry, who identified himself as a sovereign citizen.

Brandon’s father, former West Memphis Police Chief Bob Paudert, has watched the dashboard video of the incident over and over again since that day in May of last year.

Now he tours the country advising law enforcement officers how to deal with people who claim to be sovereign citizens.

[Olsenfin]

Captain, I find your comments unacceptable. Multiple cannon rounds or an anti-tank rocket to be used against a single human being not in an armored vehicle? That's totally out of line. And FAR too expensive.

While I do not have data on ego penetration for the .50 BMG cartridge, I am confident that a single round should be more than sufficient, even at twice the distance you suggest.

[Cathulhu]

I gotta go with Olsenfin on this one. Although I find myself thinking of Pen in Steve Perry's Matadora series, the really good sniper. And Steve named a planet after me in it!

[Lambkin]

More Bob Paudert, with video

http://www.wtvy.com/home/headlines/Sove ... 57588.html

"Sovereigns are a group of people that believe basically they are above the law" Retired Law Enforcement Officer Bob Paudert said.

The biggest piece of advice Paudert can give to officers ...is if you think you may be approaching a sovereign...go back to your car and call for backup.

[AndyK]

Napalm -- but not enough to kill them immediately.

[Cathulhu]

I don't give a rodent's hindquarters what the person believes, but I believe it's wrong to hurt anyone for a belief. It's when the individual holding that belief starts taking bad actions, hurting others or their properties that they lose the right to be free persons. This talk about napalm is unworthy, guys. The cop is right--call for backup when you have an indicator that this can go bad, and sovereign nonsense is an indicator. But I don't see that it means a believer who hasn't done anything except be a flaky idiot should be lined up against the wall.

[Olsenfin]

I don't give a rodent's hindquarters what the person believes, but I believe it's wrong to hurt anyone for a belief. It's when the individual holding that belief starts taking bad actions, hurting others or their properties that they lose the right to be free persons. This talk about napalm is unworthy, guys. The cop is right--call for backup when you have an indicator that this can go bad, and sovereign nonsense is an indicator. But I don't see that it means a believer who hasn't done anything except be a flaky idiot should be lined up against the wall.

Kath, I believe you've misinterpreted what some of us said. None of the ordnance-related responses suggested blasting someone merely for his expressed views. The Kanes (pere et fil) didn't merely insist that they aren't subject to a police officer's authority; they gunned down - KILLED - two officers, who were merely doing their jobs, to prove their point.

I am perfectly happy to recommend a violent death to people who do that. And I'll volunteer to pull the trigger. But I do object to expending overly expensive ordnance in that process. AT rounds and missles should be saved for use against appropriate targets. (Sovruns may have armored personnel carriers).

[Cathulhu]

Olsie, I can live with that. I just hate napalm.

[AndyK]

Olsie, I can live with that. I just hate napalm.

However, using assault weapons to kill law enforcement officers mandates a response. A slow death in a burn ward is totally appropriate.

[Cathulhu]

Andy, have you ever been in a burn ward? One of my plethora of cousins had his pants catch fire in a onstage stunt with his band, and third degree burns are--let's just say napalm as a weapon is uncivilized by it's nature.

[The Observer]

...let's just say napalm as a weapon is uncivilized by it's nature.

Any weapon designed to to harm or kill is "uncivilized." War in and of itself is "uncivilized." However, we have never been able to outlaw or stop war, therefore it becomes a necessity that a state perfect its art of war to include all weapons necessary in order for the state to continue and not be defeated. If that means using napalm to defeat the enemy, then it must be used. Asking soldiers to approach an enemy steel-reinforced bunker with only rifles and small arms is a suicidal directive and is "uncivilized." It was napalm and its predecessors that protected America GI's in the Pacific and allowed a great number of them to come home.

As General Willaim T. Sherman pointed out, war is indeed hell and we cannot hope to refine it. It is far better to get the killing done up front and immediate in order to minimize the casualties to your own side and to cause the enemy to surrender or sue for peace. But even far better is to have a reputation for being willing to use "uncivilized" weapons so that your enemies will have cause to think twice about starting a war with you - and thus preventing loss of life in the first place.

[Cathulhu]

I don't actually think it's open warfare on sovereigns--more of a sniper action. I strongly believe they would love a war, but it wouldn't be one. It'd be another traitorist terrorist plot that costs more innocent people going about their business their lives. Still thinking snipers more effective here. Only problem is identifying them before some poor traffic cop dies, and I have no real solution to offer.

[AndyK]

Andy, have you ever been in a burn ward? One of my plethora of cousins had his pants catch fire in a onstage stunt with his band, and third degree burns are--let's just say napalm as a weapon is uncivilized by it's nature.

Yes. Deep-fried turkey accident. I was lucky -- I didn't lose my hands; at least not totally.

And, after all of that, I still am strongly in favor of inflicting the maximum amount of non-lethal pain on people who mow down law enforcement officers.

I have some serious problems with the blanket prohibition of "cruel and unusual punishment."

For example, if the stocks and pillory, public flogging, etc were still in practice, it might have a significant impact on the crime rate.

[The Observer]

Still thinking snipers more effective here. Only problem is identifying them before some poor traffic cop dies, and I have no real solution to offer

Well, this whole sub-thread is hypothetical. I agree with Olsenfin and you that overkill is not the way to go. My comment about napalm was in regards to it being "uncivilized" and should not be used at all.n

[JamesVincent]

Still thinking snipers more effective here. Only problem is identifying them before some poor traffic cop dies, and I have no real solution to offer

Well, this whole sub-thread is hypothetical. I agree with Olsenfin and you that overkill is not the way to go. My comment about napalm was in regards to it being "uncivilized" and should not be used at all.n

Willie Petes are more localized and portable anyway. And prettier.

[Demosthenes]

I met Bob Paudert for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Nice man.

We've both been doing the law enforcement lecture circuit, and have both appeared on the same tv news shows, but our schedules didn't overlap until we met up in Missouri to film a documentary for the Canadian Broadcast Company.

[wserra]

a documentary for the Canadian Broadcast Company.

"Sovereigns, Eh?"

[Burnaby49]

Wserra nailed us, we're all sovereigns up here. Liz is the boss! When I joined the federal government in the early 1970s I didn't swear allegiance to Canada, I swore it to the Crown. The queen's face is on our coins and on the $20 bill. We didn't even have Canadian citizenship until 1947, we were British subjects. When the Citizenship Act came into effect on January 1, 1947, William Lyonel Mackenzie King, our Prime Minister at the time, got citizenship certificate no. 1 making him the first Canadian citizen.

The only defense I have in favour of our system of government is that it works and not being big on symbols I don't care whose picture hangs in government offices. Liz is certainly more photogenic than John A. MacDonald, our first Prime Minister.

[Lambkin]

http://www.southeastsun.com/news/articl ... f6878.html

Police face danger with sovereign citizens

Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 12:43 pm | Updated: 2:44 pm, Wed Dec 14, 2011.

By Melissa Braun

Retired Police Chief Bob Paudert told a group of Wiregrass law enforcement officers last Friday he at one time knew nothing about sovereign citizens.

But in an instant that all changed when in May 2010 two self-proclaimed sovereign citizens changed his life forever.

Jerry Kane and his 16-year-old son Joe, killed Paudert's son, Brandon, and officer Bill Evans during a traffic stop along Interstate 40 in West Memphis, Ark.

"We'll never bring them back ever again. It is too late. I would give my life right now to bring them back, but I can't. It is too late," he told the officers. "But it is not too late to save your life."