ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

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bobhurt
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ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by bobhurt »

I don't consider myself a redemption-scam sovereign citizen goofball. I do consider myself a student (usually) and teacher ( sometimes) of law, and one of the citizens from whom government sovereignty flows. So I see myself as one of those who ought to excise crimes and criminals from government, employing first the methods least risky to myself. I have had a measure of success at this. Read my report Loyalty Oaths In Florida to see an example.

In Jan 2012 ABC Producer Dan Lieberman called to say he'd be in town and wanted to interview me about Sovereign Citizens. CBS Producer Clem Taylor had made a similar call in mid 2011, but never showed up with the camera. Dan did show the next week interviewing me at home, and then at a "sovereign citizen" meeting including ABC Anchor Dan Harris in the banquet room of Perkins in Dunedin FL, to which about 10 folks showed up.

Lieberman wanted me to explain why violence against government is okay. I pointed him to the language in the Declaration of Independence and Article I Section 2 of the Florida Constitution of 1838, but made the point that even though crime in government or abuse by government employees justifies violence, using it to fix problems typically gets the citizen killed or jailed. Lieberman acted disappointed because he had read an article in which I had pointed to the same references and the fact that sometimes no method other than hard physical force can succeed in excising crime and criminals from government. I guess we could look at Saddam Hussein as an example of the difficulty of removing some criminals.

I started the public meeting by explaining my mission to encourage activism and a gradient approach of use of pressure to reform or remove criminals from government while staying out of harms's way. One of the attendees stood up, denounced my leadership, and said "If they come at me with a gun, I got a gun. That's what I'm about"

Would you believe that became the centerpiece of our part in the Sovereign Citizen defamation by ABC a couple of weeks ago on Diane Sawyer's World News and the Nightline show?

ABC characterized our group as sovereign citizens, and even more so in a class of people like the Obama-liberal tax protester who flew his plane into an IRS building in Austin, and Jerry and Joe Kane, the alleged sovereign citizens who allegedly murdered two cops at an I41 off-ramp in West Memphis AR, and whom a SWAT team murdered in a near-by Wall-Mart parking lot an hour and a half later.

So, ABC has lumped me and some group members whom I try to educate AWAY from ridiculous redemption nonsense, together with framed or liberal murderers. And they completely distorted my message to my flock of using lawful, peaceable means whenever possible to rein in abuses by government employees. We are PRO-government, not anti-government. We stand against crime and criminals in government, not against government itself. And in time I shall teach those who attend my meetings that people ought to abandon redemption theory nonsense, have license plates and driver license and pay their property taxes and other taxes they owe, and work as political, legal, administrative activists within the law to hold employees of government accountable for abusive behavior and flouting of loyalty oaths.

My eyes have nearly turned brown from the bullshit patriot myths I have to filter out of the pulp that comes across my desk day in and day out. I had to create a mailing list (Lawmen Google Group) to which only I post messages so patriot myth mongers would not poison the minds of subscribers with that very same bullshit I work assiduously to filter out of my communications to them. So what that I don't do it perfectly. I do it. And that makes me a Quatloosian in good standing as far as I am concerned, although I admit some embarrassment at association with government shills who see nothing wrong with the unlawful implementation of income tax in the USA. I cannot solve everyone's ignorance and bigotry at once.

I have a point in writing this. That is to say WHERE THE HELL ARE THE QUATLOOSIANS when it comes to condeming ADL, SPLC, CBS, and ABC for intentionally lying to the American public by lumping good citizens together with murderers and idiots in a public broadcast that reaches millions.

Don't worry. I'm working on a lawsuit against them. As for you silent Quatloosians, thanks for nothing.

One more thing. In case you think I'm blowing smoke, visit my blog article that shows the actual video of the meeting with ABC, and compares it to the loathsome story propounded by ABC.

http://bobhurt.blogspot.com/2012/03/abc ... atory.html

On top of this travesty of bad reportign by ABC regarding our local group of law students, consider the frameup of Jerry and Joe Kane, the man and son whom a SWAT team murdered in Arkansas on their way from giving a seminar on foreclosure defense in Las Vegas to their Clearwater home. I told Lieberman that the frameup happened and the police story was full of holes. The FedEx driver reported three hispanic men, with automatic weapons and an orange-roofed white van, murdering two policeman on exit 275 of eastbound I-41. The autopsy report shows a variety of bullets in the policemen that did not come from an AK-47, and the reenactment dash cam video showed someone resembling Joe Kane firing an assault rifle. The Kanes carried an AK-47 in their vehicle for defense and did target practice with it. Police failed to deliver all the dashcam footage, and took a month and a half to deliver the reenactment. They never released a ballistic report showing any connection between the bullets in the dead cops and the 38 pistol and AK-47 Jerry Kane owned. One cop had 9 bullet holes and the other had 18. The examiner found at least one bullet lodged in the neck. Had an AK-47 round done that, the bullet would have gone all the way through. COps said Jerry Kane never fired a gun in the incident. One of the dead cops had ball point pen writing on his hand showing an Arizona number and green card number.

Conclusion: the cops lied about the shooting. They framed Jerry and Joe Kane, and then murdered them so they couldn't talk. And they made a lot of errors in the reenactment and crime scene cleanup. And ABC, CBS, the ADL and SPLC all echo the chief of police (Paudert) story without doing any original investigation into the alleged facts.

Members of all groups associated with the lie, frameup, coverup, and connection of murders to the Florida law advocacy group students deserve severe sanction for their irresponsible and corrupt stories and their libelous character assassinations.

Will Quatloosians everywhere take them to task? I doubt it, but we'll see. I have a copy of the autopsy report if anybody wants to see it.

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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by wserra »

bobhurt wrote:I do consider myself a student (usually) and teacher ( sometimes) of law
Yet another indication of how flawed self-image can be.

Tell me, bobhurt, do you teach that "the IRS operates like a Mafia in concert with the DOJ and courts regarding implementation of direct personal income taxation. . . . BAD case law has invalidated perfectly sound legal arguments against such illegal taxation, rendering them frivolous"? That "some juridical voodoo protects him [Obama] from summary excision from government for utter lack of US citizenship"? That "most Americans don't engage in a taxable activity, so they don't owe income tax and don't need to file a tax return at all"? Do you ask your "students" "What law specifically makes one liable for the tax imposed"? If they "see any provision in the 16 Amendment for repealing the apportionment clauses of Article I"? I guess you think John McCain is Vice-President.

You wrote all these things and more just on this board. And yet you wonder why ABC didn't put you on national TV?

Maybe they're waiting for "Animal Planet".
I'm working on a lawsuit against them.
Be sure to let us know how that turns out.
consider the frameup of Jerry and Joe Kane
Y'mean the criminals who shot two cops in cold blood, on video? Please add that to the above list. You actually told these hallucinations to the ABC producer, and they didn't give you national exposure? I can't believe it. Maybe you'll be on that show where people yell things like, "Pick me! Pick me! I'm dressed like a tomato!"
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by notorial dissent »

bobhurt wrote:I don't consider myself a redemption-scam sovereign citizen goofball. I do consider myself a student (usually) and teacher ( sometimes) of law, Self delude much there Bobby? You have about as much of a nodding acquaintance with real law as you have with reality, which is to say, none at all.

I have a point in writing this. That is to say WHERE THE HELL ARE THE QUATLOOSIANS when it comes to condeming ADL, SPLC, CBS, and ABC for intentionally lying to the American public by lumping good citizens together with murderers and idiots in a public broadcast that reaches millions.
The reason you got lumped in with all the "other idiots" as you so aptly put it, is because you sound and are just like those self same idiots. You can delude your self, and obviously do, and your pathetic hand full of hangers on all you want, but to anyone with an IQ above room temperature, you are exactly what you are complaining about, only probably worse.

Don't worry. I'm working on a lawsuit against them. As for you silent Quatloosians, thanks for nothing. Gee I'm surprised-NOT!!! Do let us know how that turns out, considering your past track record, it will be another epic fail and a good case of point and snicker. And we haven't had a really good laugh recently.

Conclusion: the cops lied about the shooting. They framed Jerry and Joe Kane, and then murdered them so they couldn't talk. And they made a lot of errors in the reenactment and crime scene cleanup. And ABC, CBS, the ADL and SPLC all echo the chief of police (Paudert) story without doing any original investigation into the alleged facts.
Conclusion you're full of it. The video from the murder scene shows exactly what the Kanes did, and the rest was the inevitable result when they refused to surrender.

Your big problem, is credibility, you don't have any, comedy potential, lots, but that doesn't go very far in the courts, or the real world for that matter. Maybe that is why you have resorted to hiding in your little hole and talking to yourself on you blog or whatever it is, since that is the only way you can get away with saying the ridiculous things you do without having someone point and laugh, which they would most certainly do otherwise.

Bobby, long time no see, next time, make it longer.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by JamesVincent »

I was going to answer quite a bit there but Wes and Notorial beat me to it. If you dont want to lumped in with the whack jobs, dont be one. As far as a bullet from an AK-47 not lodging in the neck, it is possible. Without actually being there and seeing the scene, it is possible to be a ricochet from either outside of the body or inside the body and became lodged there. Also if it was fired while the LEO was on the ground and passed upward through the body it could have lost energy in the process and basically stopped there. There are multiple reasons for those kinds of things to happen and without being there or being privy to the autopsy report I cant tell you which. Bullets have a tendency to do weird things sometimes and unless your damn good you shouldnt make pronouncements about what and what cant be real.

As far as the video, which was reenacted? The one where Joe Kane opened fire on two officers and murdered them in cold blood or the Wal-Mart footage where they were again stopped and again opened fire on LEOs and were then killed by same LEOs? Of course Im sure your convinced its all fake but what about the witnesses from the Wal-Mart parking lot? There were several that were interviewed by LEOs and local stations. They all fake too? Of course it doesnt matter, self-delusion prevents the deluder from seeing anything but the delusion so you keep on believing what you want and finding worthless ways to prove what you are. I have yet to see anything that separates you in theory or practice from what the Kanes strove to be but an AK so you will be lumped in with them.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by LPC »

bobhurt wrote:On top of this travesty of bad reportign by ABC regarding our local group of law students, consider the frameup of Jerry and Joe Kane, the man and son whom a SWAT team murdered in Arkansas on their way from giving a seminar on foreclosure defense in Las Vegas to their Clearwater home. I told Lieberman that the frameup happened and the police story was full of holes. The FedEx driver reported three hispanic men, with automatic weapons and an orange-roofed white van, murdering two policeman on exit 275 of eastbound I-41. The autopsy report shows a variety of bullets in the policemen that did not come from an AK-47, and the reenactment dash cam video showed someone resembling Joe Kane firing an assault rifle. The Kanes carried an AK-47 in their vehicle for defense and did target practice with it.
Yes, defense against the murderous chipmunks in the area, and target practice against police.

Who are we going to believe, Bob Hurt or our own lying eyes?
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by fortinbras »

The autopsies in the West Memphis shootings were done by the Arkansas State Police and the results were reported in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette on August 27, 2010. The autopsy showed that the two policemen had been killed by AK-47 bullets, none of them fired at close range. There was no indication that another gun had been used to shoot them.

I feel very strongly about this topic.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by JamesVincent »

fortinbras wrote:The autopsies in the West Memphis shootings were done by the Arkansas State Police and the results were reported in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette on August 27, 2010. The autopsy showed that the two policemen had been killed by AK-47 bullets, none of them fired at close range. There was no indication that another gun had been used to shoot them.

I feel very strongly about this topic.
7.62x39mm? That would make it a little different from a .38 special wouldnt it?
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by The Observer »

bobhurt wrote:That is to say WHERE THE HELL ARE THE QUATLOOSIANS when it comes to condeming [sic]...
Bob, this may come as a shock to you, but the Quatloosians always make it a practice to support people who have credibility behind them, not people who just accept whatever they read or hear without checking out the facts. You are just as wrong as the driver's-license-hating sovruns are. I interpret your distancing yourself from the sovrun whackos as merely an attempt to gain instant credibility. But life doesn't work that way.

So we aren't going to be backing you up.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by Demosthenes »

I thought ABC did a good job. Your attempt to twist the facts about Joe Kane murdering two police officers is pathetic, Bob.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by fortinbras »

I think a conspiracy theory about Jerry Kane's death is seriously nuts. Kane himself was nearly broke when he died. He had caused the federal govt, for all his bragging, not a lot of trouble since his adherents were crumpling in court without much resistance. A frame-up that included killing the son and nephew of the chief of police would be so outrageous (and unworkable) that only a sick mind would think it plausible.
Last edited by fortinbras on Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by JamesVincent »

fortinbras wrote:I think a conspiracy theory about Jerry Kane's death is seriously nuts. Kane himself was nearly broke when he died. He had caused the federal govt, for all his bragging, not a lot of trouble since his adherents were crumpling in court without much resistance. A frame-up that included killed the son and nephew of the chief of police would be so outrageous (and unworkable) that only a sick mind would think it plausible.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by notorial dissent »

Demosthenes wrote:I thought ABC did a good job. Your attempt to twist the facts about Joe Kane murdering two police officers is pathetic, Bob.
Bobby, pathetic, NO, say it ain't so!!!!! Beyond pathetic yeah!!!!!
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by Famspear »

JamesVincent wrote:......If you [Bob Hurt] dont want to lumped in with the whack jobs, dont be one.....
Unfortunately, it's probably wayyyyyyyy too late for Bob to rectify this problem.

:)
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by notorial dissent »

Famspear wrote:Unfortunately, it's probably wayyyyyyyy too late for Bob to rectify this problem.

:)
No probably about it. Babbling Bobby has littered the internet for far too long with with way too much of his nonsense, delusion, and downright ridiculousness to ever be able to take it back, or better yet, deny it.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by Montana Notasovrun »

notorial dissent wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:I thought ABC did a good job. Your attempt to twist the facts about Joe Kane murdering two police officers is pathetic, Bob.
Bobby, pathetic, NO, say it ain't so!!!!! Beyond pathetic yeah!!!!!
The conspiracy to kill the Kanes is just plain bizarro from bizzaro world (my apologies to DC Comics).
I am new enough here that I didn't know much about Bobby till I visited his website. Those of you who have pegged him as pathetic have done him a disservice. He ain't that good!!
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by Cathulhu »

Montana Notasovrun wrote:
notorial dissent wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:I thought ABC did a good job. Your attempt to twist the facts about Joe Kane murdering two police officers is pathetic, Bob.
Bobby, pathetic, NO, say it ain't so!!!!! Beyond pathetic yeah!!!!!
The conspiracy to kill the Kanes is just plain bizarro from bizzaro world (my apologies to DC Comics).
I am new enough here that I didn't know much about Bobby till I visited his website. Those of you who have pegged him as pathetic have done him a disservice. He ain't that good!!

So essentially, you're classifying him as sub-pathetic? As in "the scum on Pathetic's coffee cup?"

Just seeking clarification here. The art of insult is an ancient and subtle one, unless of course you're UGA doggie.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by notorial dissent »

Montana Notasovrun wrote:I am new enough here that I didn't know much about Bobby till I visited his website. Those of you who have pegged him as pathetic have done him a disservice. He ain't that good!!
Congratulations! You have Bobby pegged pretty well, on his best days, he might manage pathetic, and so far he hasn't had (m)any of those.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by Famspear »

For readers who are not regular visitors to this forum, here's a thread about a rant about killing government workers -- a rant that was found on one of Bob Hurt's web sites:

viewtopic.php?t=6159

It may be my imagination, but (in fairness) I think Bob seems to have backed off from that kind of rhetoric lately.

Examples of other threads mentioning Bob Hurt:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7686

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3266

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3138

And here are excerpts from a September 14, 2005 article by Bob, which he entitled "What do Do about the Stupid":
....It is not racial discrimination to point out that the most egregiously stupid and most troublesomely criminal people in America are identifiable by skin color - they are black or brown, and they are African or Ibero-American in genetic origin. There race is just a coincidence.

And the most profound example was revealed by [Hurricane] Katrina. It effectively ripped the covers off the bed of the stupid people of New Orleans' welfare projects and inner city ghettos, and showed them to be a nest of parasites, indigents, welfare abusers, and criminals. More than 95% of them were black.

[ . . .]

New Orleans is populated largely by stupid people. Even the cops are stupid, for they are required to be residents of the city in order to be members of the police. In general, only the stupid would live there, knowing the imminent danger that threatens them every year.
America's problem with its stupid residents is that they are accorded the same rights as everyone else, but our legal system has not mustered the courage to demand of them the same level of responsibility expected of the more intelligent people.

[ . . . ]

The technology exists to sterilize all welfare recipients as a condition to their receiving a welfare check or food stamps - if they can't adequately care for themselves, then they cannot be expected to care for any children they procreate.

[ . . . ]

The bottom line is that nobody with an IQ below 90 should be allowed to procreate a child or immigrate to America. We have the technology to implement a wise and benign eugenics program. We are derelicts for not using it.

America should not be a nation of dumbasses. We-the-people are dumbasses for allowing our legislature and president to continue ignoring their responsibility to protect us from an invasion of the stupid, either through procreation or immigration.

As illustrated in New Orleans [with Hurricane Katrina in 2005], we are now reaping the harvest of our own widespread irresponsibility and laziness. Maybe we need a few more hurricanes to rip the bed covers off of our inner city ghettos so Americans can see how terrible is the genetic rot that infests our nation. People are impoverished because they are stupid. Our prisons, jails, and welfare roles are packed with stupid people. They are terrible burden on our society. The obvious conclusion we must eventually agree upon is that if they did not exist, they would not be a burden.

The stupid are free to procreate other stupid people. They do not excerise their responsibility to restrain themselves from breeding more stupid people. The financial and emotional burden on us will increase, and our liberties will continue to disappear to the extent that we allow the stupid to proliferate. Our president is right to show a tender heart and helping hand to those in need. He is wrong to ignore his responsibility to push for wise and benign eugenics programs that elevate the IQ of our gene pool.

I encourage the President, our legislators, and all Americans to make eugenics the number one thrust of the remainder of this millennium. Only three generations of rigorous and benign eugenics will be necessary to rid our nation of the bulk of its stupid people, without doing actual harm to anyone.

[ . . . ]

Our Congress and our president should require all recipients of American foreign aid to implement eugenics programs in their own nations so as gradually to eliminate the most defective and degenerate members of their gene pools, and to elevate the average IQ of their nations.
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by wserra »

bobhurt wrote:Don't worry. I'm working on a lawsuit against them. As for you silent Quatloosians, thanks for nothing.

One more thing. In case you think I'm blowing smoke, visit my blog article that shows the actual video of the meeting with ABC, and compares it to the loathsome story propounded by ABC.
So how's that lawsuit going, Bob?
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Re: ABC, Sovereign Citizens in FL, Jerry and Joe Kane

Post by wserra »

bobhurt wrote:So, ABC has lumped me and some group members whom I try to educate AWAY from ridiculous redemption nonsense, together with framed or liberal murderers . . . Don't worry. I'm working on a lawsuit against them.
That was over two years ago, Bob. In most places, the statute of limitations for defamation would have run by now. So how'd the suit against ABC go?
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