Truthers and Sandy Hook

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ashlynne39
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Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by ashlynne39 »

This doesn't seem the right forum but I wasn't sure which to put this in, so moderators feel free to move it wherever you think best.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01 ... g-him?lite

Grandfather who comforted Sandy Hook Elementary kids says 'truthers' are targeting him
Retired psychologist Gene Rosen was hailed as a hero for taking six terrified first-graders into his home and giving them fruit juice during the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre.

The four girls and two boys told Rosen they couldn’t return to class because a man with guns had killed their teacher. Indeed Victoria Soto was among the 26 dead – 20 children and six staffers – gunned down by Adam Lanza at the Newtown, Conn., school that day.

“I comforted them because I’m a grandfather,” Rosen, 69, who lives across the street from the school, said in an appearance on TODAY after the tragedy. “They were mortified.”

Now, Rosen and his wife are scared. He says he is being harassed by so-called Sandy Hook "truthers," conspiracy theorists who believe that facts about Newtown are being covered up by the media or other forces as part of a government or anti-gun plot.

“I’m getting emails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor,” Rosen told the online magazine Salon. A white supremacist message board, Salon said, had ridiculed the “emotional Jewish guy.”

A photo of Rosen's home was posted online and fake social network accounts have been created in his name, according to the report. Blog posts call him a fraud. “What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?” said one message accusing him of acting, according to Salon.

“The quantity of the material is overwhelming,” Rosen said, adding that his wife is worried for their safety.

Rosen’s treatment is the outgrowth of Newtown shooting conspiracy theories expanding on the Internet. Such claims are even coming from sources that appear to be mainstream.

Florida Atlantic University communications professor James Tracy, who in a blog post stated, “While it sounds like an outrageous claim, one is left to inquire whether the Sandy Hook shooting ever took place – at least in the way law enforcement authorities and the nation’s news media have described.”

Or reporter Ben Swann, who questioned police accounts of the Aurora, Colo., shootings as well as the Sandy Hook massacre in an online program called “Full Disclosure.” Swann, in both instances, latches on to witness accounts reported in the early confusion of the tragedies to question whether more than one gunman was involved. There is “reason to question this whole narrative,” Swann said.

Some of the conspiracy theories blame Jewish people for roles in the Newtown tragedy. Those claims even led Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League to respond. In a blog post Foxman laments the inevitable rumor mill that sprouts up on the Internet after major disasters and tragedies that the news media is hiding the truth and that Jews or Israel play a role.

“But never in a million years did I think that the shootings at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, an event that has so traumatized Americans and shocked people the world over, would become the latest fodder for cynical anti-Semites and anti-Israel conspiracy theorists,” Foxman wrote.

Conspiracy theories are nothing new, league Director of Investigative Research Mark Pitcavage points out, but they come in different stripes. One type is based on a single event, such as Sandy Hook, rather than a long-running series of complex machinations spanning the globe.

"What they tend to share is an incident occurs that is large and heinous, so much so that psychologically there will be people who are unwilling to accept a simple explanation for how the event took place," Pitcavage told NBC News.

Whether Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating John F. Kennedy 50 years ago is considered the "ultimate example."

"Psychologically people are unwilling, unprepared to accept that it was a lone gunman. So if they can't accept that, there must be some other explanation. That's why these conspiracy theories emerge."

The terrorist attacks on the twin towers of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001, also spawned conspiracy conspiracies, and led to the coining of the phrase "truthers" to describe them.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by fortinbras »

The Sandy Hook 'truthers' have instantly skipped over being eccentric into being obnoxious.

Among the claims being made: 6 year old Emilie Parker was not killed, and she later appears in a photo with Obama; the story that she was killed is a govt-lie in which her parents are cooperating.

Ditto, no children died, it's all a govt fake.

The shooter did not bring any sophisticated armament into the school with him; the only assault or semi-auto weapon was found in his car after he was dead.

That, sometime before the shooting, the kids were all ushered in rows out of the school building into the parking lot; this was prep for the shootings. Rumors differ as to whether this happened weeks or mere hours before the shooting, but there's a photo of what I figure is a standard fire drill.

Not explained: If the staff got forewarning before the shooting, how come 6 teachers put themselves in harm's way and were killed? And this question is willing to concede that not one of those teachers might have sent her kids home or warned the parents to spare their lives. In a nice upscale suburb, where a lot of parents probably voted Republican, howcome nobody in the whole town has spilled the beans?
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by grixit »

to drag this a bit back towards being on topic note the methodology: if there is anything unclear or seemingly unclear, it means that it's all fiction. We've seen that a lot in sovrun theory.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Prof »

I think that the "truthers" are at least first cousins to the "sovereigns" if not almost interchangeable.

The whole "truther"/"birther" mind set is that the government is not legitimate and is a oppresive force, dominated by "Jews" or "Bohemian Grove/Illuminati/Bilderberg" or secret society members. Masonry also falls into this category.

As I work through an outline of the history, etc., of the "sovereign" movement, it is clear that many members of that movement are infected with other extreme political myths

So, as one of the Moderators of this section, I strongly agree with the inclusion of this discussion.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by notorial dissent »

I think more to the point, that the birthers/truthers and sovruns, live in an alternate reality where their view of the universe is the only one, and everything else is a plot to hide that reality. In some cases to the point of violence.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

When my son was about eight years old, there was this 9-year-old girl across the street whose favorite activity seemed to involve harrassing him. One day, Danny was helping me wash my car; and I went inside for a minute. The girl came over and started harrassing him again, this time by throwing small pebbles at him. Danny asked her to stop; but she replied "it's a free country" and continued throwing the pebbles. Danny asked "since it's a free country, does that mean that we can do what we want, and people don't have the right to stop us?" The girl replied "yeah", whereupon Danny picked up the garden hose....

I came outside to hear the girl's mother screaming at Danny for drenching her daughter. To make a long story short, the mother couldn't understand why Danny didn't knock on the door and complain to her, and instead soaked "a girl", despite all the explanations that Danny tried to offer ("tattletales" have such high status among children, y'know) and that I tried to reinforce.

The truthers and sovruns are just like the girl. As children, they learned "it's a free country"; and they just can't understand who the ebil gumming tries to make them stop doing things that they wanna do, and tries to make them do things that they just doan' WANNA do.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Cathulhu »

I think Danny rocks, and hope you took him out for ice cream.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

Cathulhu wrote:I think Danny rocks, and hope you took him out for ice cream.
I don't remember what I did; but I did something. Danny always had this amazing talent for baiting his harrassers into a position where he could kick their legs out from under them and make them look incredibly stupid. Not many people messed with him twice.

He still uses that ability when he does occasional open-mike stand-up comedy gigs (his new and "real" job is in the new Harpoon Beer Hall in Boston).
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Unidyne »

Pottapaug1938 wrote:
Cathulhu wrote:I think Danny rocks, and hope you took him out for ice cream.
I don't remember what I did; but I did something. Danny always had this amazing talent for baiting his harrassers into a position where he could kick their legs out from under them and make them look incredibly stupid. Not many people messed with him twice.

He still uses that ability when he does occasional open-mike stand-up comedy gigs (his new and "real" job is in the new Harpoon Beer Hall in Boston).
I'd love to see how he handles hecklers!
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by JamesVincent »

I am not saying by doing this that I am a "truther" but I will tell you what I have seen floating around the internet.
fortinbras wrote:The Sandy Hook 'truthers' have instantly skipped over being eccentric into being obnoxious.

Among the claims being made: 6 year old Emilie Parker was not killed, and she later appears in a photo with Obama; the story that she was killed is a govt-lie in which her parents are cooperating.
I have seen several different sites that address this. They have posted pictures of what appears to be this child in a school photo taken that day and then a photo taken with Obama. In both photos the girl looks damn close and is wearing the same dress. Can I tell them apart from a photo? No I cant. Does that make this claim true? No it doesnt.

Ditto, no children died, it's all a govt fake.

The shooter did not bring any sophisticated armament into the school with him; the only assault or semi-auto weapon was found in his car after he was dead.
The day of the shootings police released details which included finding an AR-15 clone, .223 rifle in the trunk of the car he was driving. Indeed, there has been police photos showing them removing an AR-15 clone from the trunk. Several different people made statements that he was using two pistols, which were recovered, but the ME testified that all the children were shot with a .223 rifle, the same one police said they removed from the trunk of the car.

That, sometime before the shooting, the kids were all ushered in rows out of the school building into the parking lot; this was prep for the shootings. Rumors differ as to whether this happened weeks or mere hours before the shooting, but there's a photo of what I figure is a standard fire drill.
I saw a helicopter footage reel which supposedly shows the school directly in the wake of the shootings. In the parking lot there are 10 or so cruisers and one fire truck. No children, no ambulances, no crying parents, no distraught staff, nothing really out of the ordinary. Just a bunch of people mulling around the parking lot.

Not explained: If the staff got forewarning before the shooting, how come 6 teachers put themselves in harm's way and were killed? And this question is willing to concede that not one of those teachers might have sent her kids home or warned the parents to spare their lives. In a nice upscale suburb, where a lot of parents probably voted Republican, howcome nobody in the whole town has spilled the beans?

Like I said, not a truther. But there has been enough things I have seen people circulating to make it just as believable, if not more so, then the 9/11 truthers which were based on almost no "evidence" at all. And several people have seen it as coincidental that this occurred right before several other things were to occur, voting in the UN over gun control measures, testimonies in other unrelated things. The crisis actor point i have seen brought up. There is a collection of photos from the scene where Giffords was shot, the scene and aftermath of Sandy Hook, and a "profile" of a woman who is employed (supposedly) by the Department of Homeland Security as a "crisis actor" and they look damn close. Is any of this evidence? Nope. Is it more then enough for people who look for conspiracy theories to get pumped and running? You betcha.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by wserra »

JamesVincent wrote:But there has been enough things I have seen
There always are. I have been involved professionally in a number of major crime scenes (including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing), and have seen this every time. Scenes of major disasters are not laid out neatly like lab experiments. Anyone looking for something "suspicious" will find it.

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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by JamesVincent »

Pretty much the same. I just needed to get away from a lot of things for awhile. "Losing" the kids for the summer actually turned out to be her just having them when she wanted, otherwise she left them with me anyway. It got to the point I really couldn't do much of anything. And then between school starting and trips back and forth to Ky to help my mother I was pretty worn out. I ended up firing the kids therapists for a bunch of different reasons and the search for another competent office took a good deal of my time. The kids are doing pretty good health wise which is definitely something to be thankful for, no major crisis there for awhile. Still going through the court issues, go back again Feb.21.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Prof »

Like Webhick, you need any moral support we can offer. Good luck.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by JamesVincent »

Prof wrote:Like Webhick, you need any moral support we can offer. Good luck.
Thank you Prof, I appreciate that. I saw what Web had posted and I worry for her. I went through some of the same issues when my sister left her boyfriend years ago. My mother ended up as a guardian of my niece, who was basically just left there after I threw my sister out of my mother's house. My brother in law signed the guardianship papers to let my mother take care of her but my sister didnt. And when my sister decided she wanted back in everyone's life she threatened to sue my mother and called the police on her to get my niece out of her house. Sadly, my brother in law passed away in December from liver cancer after fighting and winning against lung cancer. We got along a lot better with him then my sister. It's always sad to deal with family in difficulties like that and I applaud her and wish her all the luck in trying.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Dr. Caligari »

Prof wrote:I think that the "truthers" are at least first cousins to the "sovereigns" if not almost interchangeable.

The whole "truther"/"birther" mind set is that the government is not legitimate and is a oppresive force, dominated by "Jews" or "Bohemian Grove/Illuminati/Bilderberg" or secret society members. Masonry also falls into this category.

As I work through an outline of the history, etc., of the "sovereign" movement, it is clear that many members of that movement are infected with other extreme political myths

So, as one of the Moderators of this section, I strongly agree with the inclusion of this discussion.
I'm not sure this is the right subforum for the Truthers. We have the Birthers on the Nesara subforum (which isn't exactly the right place for them, either). I'm not suggesting any specific alternative, though.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by fortinbras »

I think the "truthers" are closer to the Holocaust deniers.
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Unidyne »

Article: Your comprehensive answer to every Sandy Hook conspiracy theory

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/18/your_co ... cy_theory/
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by fortinbras »

The birfers have reached out to the truthers ....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 25671.html
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

fortinbras wrote:The birfers have reached out to the truthers ....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 25671.html
Silly me -- I couldn't imagine that Oily could get any more shameless than she already was....

:oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Truthers and Sandy Hook

Post by JamesVincent »

Resurrecting this thread with more breaking news:
In a shocking report released this week, the FBI is admitting that the 2012 Sandy Hook School shooting was not a shooting at all. It was an exercise that local media misreported on, and then government officials perpetuated the hoax in hopes of bringing about gun control legislation.




Many questions regarding why "parents" were laughing, first responders were not going in and out of the school and later no medical personnel were permitted are now answered.


As for the source? Your good old friend and mine, InfoWars.

http://www.politicalears.com/blog/fbi-r ... ed-crisis/

(BTW it has already been debunked, the FBI used the statistics that it was sent. The State Police handled the shooting investigation, not the Newtown Police. So when the FBI got around to entering in the numbers for the year Sandy Hook was added to the State Police totals, not the Newtown totals.)
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