Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby NYGman » Sun May 15, 2016 1:54 am

I don't view a trip to sing for armed anti government crazies an appropriate school trip under any circumstances be it pulled out of school at taken cross country to do so. There can't be a lot of good learning going on an a trip that like. I also should add I never intended to talk badly about home schooling, if done right, with the right child and right teacher it can succeed, however I don't believe for myself, my family, my children it is appropriate. I like the idea of structured days, learning social skills interacting with other kids, and having professionals teachers who provide unbiased feedback. I will also add, the wife and I had these discussions and decided sending the to a school was better for everyone. I do have a friend who is doing homeschooling next year though, and there is nothing wrong with that, it may work well for them.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby eric » Sun May 15, 2016 2:54 am

I suppose I may have over-reacted. :?
Anyways, in Alberta, there are a number of approved home schooling curricala, and it doesn't carry the same connatations as it does elsewhere. You are assigned an accredited teacher as a tutor, there are regular tests and exams supervised by a third party, usually the local librarian. I'm not up to date but it used to be there were three allowed variations of study - general, Christian (protestant) and Christian (roman catholic). That being said, no matter which you took, you still had to meet the provincial guidelines for your age. Around here there are enough who do it that there is a local support group that organizes field trips and weekly trips to the local library, etc. to ensure appropriate socialization. I think it's time to let the matter rest and I suppose I may have over-reacted. I admit that I have a lot of respect for those parents who are interested enough in their child's education to take an active part in it themselves and btw, my wife was the local librarian.

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Sun May 15, 2016 8:20 am

Eric, I think we're talking apples and Orangutans here. What you are familiar with is the real deal, particularly where you are, what some of these clowns are pushing as home schooling is basically institutionalized ignorance. What you are/were talking about is true learning.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Sun May 15, 2016 4:57 pm

And with that, let's please move this back to the thread topic at hand rather than the evil or good of homeschooling.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby AndyK » Mon May 16, 2016 1:10 am

Since someone else shares my annoyance with the sidetracking; a simple warning:

The next home schooling post will result in ALL of the related off-topic posts being moved to another thread. If I'm in a good mood at that time, I'll tell everyone where they went.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Arthur Rubin » Mon May 16, 2016 5:42 pm

I think taking children to see (not participate in) a Sovrun demonstration could be an excellent educational use of the children's time. (See, I didn't say "home schooling"....)
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby AndyK » Mon May 16, 2016 6:58 pm

Arthur Rubin wrote:I think taking children to see (not participate in) a Sovrun demonstration could be an excellent educational use of the children's time. (See, I didn't say "home schooling"....)


Borderline. Marginally acceptable, but don' push it.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby mpo » Fri May 27, 2016 4:38 pm

It has been a while since there has been an update of what is happening with the various Bundies.

Cliven's lawyer reached out to State Rep. Ken Ivory of Utah to help pay for legal bills. Rep. Ivory has expressed interest in having federal lands being turned over to the states. Cliven's lawyer assumed that Rep. Ivory would be sympathetic to the Bundy cause and donate money. Except, that's not what Joel Hansen emailed to the state rep. No, Hansen asked Ivory if he could get the Koch brothers to help pay for legal fees. https://twitter.com/ryanjhaas/status/734192070953340929

State Rep Ivory did not respond to Hansen's email, and declined to fund the defense. He also said that he has not received money from the Koch brothers. http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060037860

In other news, Ammon and Ryan are not enjoying their time being incarcerated. In a joint status report regarding jail condition, the brothers complain about being in jail: their rights are being infringed upon because they are separated, their time in the law library is limited, their religious freedoms are being infringed. The jail has made some accommodations.

One general request from Ryan raises an eyebrow, "My Second Amendment rights are being violated." Unfortunately, Ryan doesn't specifically ask for a firearm. http://res.cloudinary.com/bdy4ger4/imag ... mysimx.pdf

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Fri May 27, 2016 6:13 pm

Cliven's attorney(s) still haven't managed to get him sprung, they, well Klayman, may have managed to really PO the presiding judge with a recusal motion that is outright offensive and over the top. On the comedy front, Ammo has managed to lose his brilliant legal team :sarcasmon: and substitute it with a new lawyer(s) not admitted to practice in the OR Fed Circuit. Clever move that. Ammo's problem with the original team is that the grift had dried up and the new one's not smart enough to have figured it out yet. New lawyer has no experience in Federal practice and even less with what his client has been charged with. More comedy down the road, and probably an eventual withdrawal.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby rogfulton » Sun May 29, 2016 5:09 pm

Looks like Cliven is preparing to throw the rest of the clowns under the bus, according to this article.

Article includes motion to sever.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby wserra » Sun May 29, 2016 6:52 pm

Minute order from a couple of weeks ago:
The Court is in receipt of various documents from an entity entitled the Unified United States Common Law Grand Jury seeking to have the Court file on this docket its papers regarding the proceedings in this case. However, as this entity is not a party to this case, the documents shall not be filed on the docket. Should this entity wish to open its own case in this Court, it is recommended the entity follow the procedures in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure for initiation of a case.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Jeffrey » Sun May 29, 2016 8:19 pm

Who is the "Unified United States Common Law Grand Jury", are they on our radar?

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Sun May 29, 2016 8:37 pm

The real comedy, if you want to be generous and call it that, is the libel KKKlayman through his local sockpuppet has filed for the recusal of the current judge, "she's mean and awful and won't grant me PHV and stuffs", some really vile stuff in there masquerading as a legal filing. Even for KKKlayman a new low.

That particular collection of crazy, the CLGJ is the brainchild :sarcasmon: of Johnny "Two Names" Darash Vidurek out of New York, it was going to be the coming thing, whole lot of MYTHology about how common law grand juries are a constitutional right and supersede everything else(regular courts) and can be judge and jury and stuffs, even drag the late Supreme Court Justice in as an authority. Basically a scam. The only real effort that got any publicity was in FL when one of their dimmer cannon fodder tried to hijack a real grand jury and when that failed created his own and indited just about everyone he didn't like and then filed the "inditements" with his local county court, and for some reason :sarcasmon: the court, and well the state too when it came down to it, got all upset and purged his writs from the docket, and then indicted him for real on like 14 felony counts of fake process and impersonating an officer. Fool is like 70 years old and is working on turning something that could be a slap on the wrist into a life sentence, for reals. The saga is going to, hopefully, come to a crashing conclusion June 6 when he gets REAL court time in front of a REAL judge and JURY and not the pretend Denny's one he was leading. His real lawyer has filed some amazing bit of lawyering, not quite on par with Orly Taitz, but working at it.

If anyone is interested, and has a day or two to waste or else reads real fast, there are some fairly long and detailed threads over on Fogbow detailing the above mentioned comedy.


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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Lambkin » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:32 pm

More analysis of the machinations around separate trials

http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/bund ... ndoff-case

Bundy and eight other defendants want separate trials, and three of his sons, Ammon, Ryan and Dave, want to be tried together. They are trying to persuade their brother Mel Bundy, who seeks a separate trial, to join them, according to court papers filed over the last two weeks.

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:19 pm

Mel is objectively the smartest of the bunch, and that is damning with faint praise. I can't for the life of me figure out what possible good it would do to severe, and I can't imagine the prosecution or judge going for it, at least so far they haven't.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby grixit » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:37 am

This would be a good time for Judge Roy Bean (either ours or the original) to step in.

Well boys, the good news is i'm only giving you 5 years each. Bad news, you'll be serving your sentences in the feedlot with your cows. And an occasional bull.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:42 pm

grixit wrote:This would be a good time for Judge Roy Bean (either ours or the original) to step in.

Well boys, the good news is i'm only giving you 5 years each. Bad news, you'll be serving your sentences in the feedlot with your cows. And an occasional bull.


It's a bit out of my jurisdiction. :wink:
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Jeffrey » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:53 pm

Someone dumb it down for us. What does all this talk of separate trials mean.

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:40 pm

Trial as a group has some risks, not the least of which are conflicting interests among the defendants and competing legal strategies among counsel. Another issue involves a defendant's right to refuse to testify in a joined case even if that testimony might benefit another defendant (a defendant cannot be compelled to testify in his or her trial but can be subpoenaed and compelled to testify in another trial). Also, having separate cases means the first case offers a preview of the viability of the witnesses and the rulings on motions for the subsequent defense teams.

I'm sure our more experienced trial counsel 'round here can provide a more in-depth rationale, but then again, when it comes to the Bundy Bunch, not much would surprise me.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:33 pm

I think another reason would be a defendant who may have a weaker case would seek a separate trial so that he or she avoids the splatter of guilt that could come from a jury who would find against his/her co-defendants.
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