Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Jeffrey » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:51 am

Gavin Seim is claiming there's leaked bodycam video of BLM agents behaving badly? Anyone heard about this?

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Chaos » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:18 pm

Jeffrey wrote:Gavin Seim is claiming there's leaked bodycam video of BLM agents behaving badly? Anyone heard about this?


I think anything out of this clown's mouth goes under 'fake news'

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:29 pm

Chaos wrote:
Jeffrey wrote:Gavin Seim is claiming there's leaked bodycam video of BLM agents behaving badly? Anyone heard about this?


I think anything out of this clown's mouth goes under 'fake news'


The very nature of Seim's statement implies that it is indeed fake news. If it was leaked, it would be out there and available for people to see.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:33 pm

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Chaos » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:44 pm

next defense accusation will be that everyone on camera were undercover

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:52 pm

Anything Seim claimed/claims would be highly questionable, if not downright fantasy. Gavin and reality are total strangers.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Arthur Rubin » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:14 pm

The Observer wrote:And that is an excellent point. BLM should have recognized that this may have gone beyond their resources to handle and consulted with the sources you listed for assistance and involvement.


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Of which we don't approve,
Who is it that always intervenes?
U.N. and O.A.S.,
They have their place, I guess,
But first send the Marines!
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Arthur Rubin wrote:
The Observer wrote:And that is an excellent point. BLM should have recognized that this may have gone beyond their resources to handle and consulted with the sources you listed for assistance and involvement.


Tom Lehrer wrote:When someone makes a move
Of which we don't approve,
Who is it that always intervenes?
U.N. and O.A.S.,
They have their place, I guess,
But first send the Marines!


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Until they've seen the light
They've got to be protected
Al their rights respected
'Til somebody we like can be elected"
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:23 pm

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:58 pm

More news regarding Dan Love, the BLM agent accused of of abusing his authority. The US attorney has now decided to not call Love as a witness in the trial.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Thu May 04, 2017 2:48 am

I have not been keeping up on the trials in Las Vegas over the Bundy Ranch standoff, mainly because Cliven's trial was scheduled separately and later than other defendants. The first trial ended in a mistrial in April 23 after the jury hung on convicting 4 of the defendants, though they did reach a decision on the other two. However, the jury could not reach a verdict on the two biggest charges of conspiracy. This is a continuing trend where the government keeps overreaching and the juries simply are not agreeing with the evidence presented as being persuasive that there was a conspiracy. The fed attorneys are really going to need to go back to the blackboard and figure out what is going to work if they want convictions; otherwise the sovruns are going to be proclaiming victory and staging more of these types of confrontations when the government tries to enforce the laws.

In the meantime, supporters held a protest/demonstration outside the prison where the Bundys are being held.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Thu May 04, 2017 4:52 am

Executive Summary, DD SS, Ammo and cRyan are both in isolation for being asses and not playing nice with others. they must like being in isolation in handcuffs with no food. Lifestyle choices.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Jeffrey » Fri May 05, 2017 1:58 pm

the government keeps overreaching and the juries simply are not agreeing with the evidence presented


I'm firmly in agreement. I don't agree with the jury nullification/rogue juror hypothesis that has been floating around. Oregon apparently agrees and passed or is trying to pass a law that more specifically makes it a crime to occupy a bird sanctuary with guns.

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:36 pm

The retrial of the 4 men who got a mistrial back in April started yesterday again with jury selection.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:20 am

Today the jury, in the retrial of Richard Lovelien, Eric Parker, Steven Stewart and O. Scott Drexler, found not one of the defendants guilty. They deadlocked on some charges and returned not guilty verdicts on others. Again, the prosecutors set a high bar for themselves by pursuing conspiracy charges and reaped the similar results from the first trial, proving that even some DOJ attorneys love defying Einstein's definition of insanity. What made this worse was the fact that Judge Navarro restricted much of the defense's plan to have the defendants talk about their reasons for coming to the Bundy standoff, their beliefs about the constitution, or any of their perceptions about BLM employees abusing their authority. To compound the prosecutors' error, the defense waived presenting closing arguments as a protest against Navarro's rulings, and still came out smelling somewhat like a rose.

The only favorable thing is these 4 defendants were considered the least culpable of all who were arrested and charged. So getting convictions were definitely going to be a challenge. Next up is the biggie trial of Cliven, Ammon and Ryan Bundy.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby Jeffrey » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:28 am

The Observer wrote:The only favorable thing is these 4 defendants were considered the least culpable of all who were arrested and charged.


This is nitpicking but I think it's probably more accurate to say that they were the second most guilty of the least guilty group.

But yeah, now due to the government flubbing the case, the anti-federalists are emboldened based on browsing their social media accounts. My prediction for the the big trial is a lot of not guilty verdicts but the head honchos like Ammon will get guilty verdicts.

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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:11 pm

The biggest problem is the government stubbornly pursuing conspiracy charges. I think for most juries, all they have to do is to look at how stupid the Bundyites are and think to themselves, "Conspiracy? These people couldn't even organize a picnic and bring it off."
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:24 am

Last week, Cliven Bundy decided to fire his attorney - and this 3 weeks before his trial starts. Bundy's attorney told the court in documents he filed that “Defendant has decided to terminate his contract for representation at this time,” “[t]he attorney-client relationship has been disrupted”, and Bundy “...no longer consents to undersigned counsel’s representation of him in this matter or at trial..."

Ryan Bundy's relationship with his attorney, Angela Dows, appears to have broken down. Ryan got permission to represent himself, with Dows as his stand-by attorney, but she has now filed a request with the court to withdraw from the case, explaining she has received "repugnant correspondence" from Bundy and that there is a "fundamental disagreement" between her and Ryan.

And today, Ken Medenbach, one of the lucky ones who was acquitted in the Malheur refuge occupation, filed a motion with a federal judge, asking that his probation officer's denial of Ken's request to attend the trial be overturned. His attorney is arguing that Ken is a not a safety risk and has an legitimate interest since he "bonded" with the Bundy boys in the refuge and jail.

Daniel Love, the BLM agent, who was in charge of the BLM agents at the Bundy Bunkerville standoff and was accused of escalating the situation (as well as being accused of using his position to secure hard-to-get tickets at the Burning Man event and mishandling evidence and directing e-mails to be deleted in other unrelated matters) is no longer an employee of BLM, the agency announced on Friday.

Summary: The Bundys apparently are still head-deep in the magical woo of sovrunhood, and are telling their attorneys to argue it in court. They are probably hoping to get a huge audience of supporters at the court to further influence the jury. With Daniel Love out, possibly because of illegal or unethical conduct, the Bundy defense will probably try to use this to distract the jury from focusing on the years of Cliven's theft from the government and paint BLM as out of control and over the top. The US attorney's office needs to give up trying to convict on conspiracy charges or the Bundys are going to walk.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby The Observer » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:01 am

Yesterday the federal judge agreed with defense attorneys' arguments to delay the trial of Cliven and his sons until October 30th. The attorneys contend that because of the Las Vegas mass shooting, it will be impossible for the defendants to have a jury pool that is not influenced by the tragedy. Their concern that the evidence of the Bundys and other bearing weapons is a central issue in this trial is going to be impacted by the current news stories covering the shooting in Vegas.

Peter Santilli ended up pleading guilty to a charge of conspiring to impede or injure a federal officer and will face up to 6 years in prison at his sentencing in January. He had blocked a number of BLM vehicles, causing the officers inside to leave the vehicles after an ugly crowd surrounded them and started making violent threats. No explanation as to why Pete decided to plead guilty, but perhaps he had no confidence in his attorney's defense strategy of claiming that Santilli was just a journalist doing his job of covering the standoff. After all, there was a lot of Internet video of Pete telling people to come out to Bunkerville to oppose BLM; that is not the kind of thing that your everyday journalist would consider as part of their job.
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Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Postby notorial dissent » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:40 am

You forgot to mention that part of the reason for the delay is that cRyan finally had his wings clipped and isn't allowed to go pro se any more, judge finally had enough, and now he has a PD, and the PD wanted and needed prep time to get up to speed. Originally they were just going to delay his trial but then the shooting happened and one of the other defendants asked for a delay so they just pushed it all back to the end of the month.

Can't feel the least bit of sympathy for Santilli, he's the worst kind of paytriot, the kind trying to get others hurt. He's a nasty bitter little man with an incredibly overblown ego, and calling him a journalist is an offense to real journalists. I don't suspect he will do too well in prison, he has a nasty mouth and a lot of attitude that will sit well with no one, on top of just being an all round poseur. He'll find out just how important he isn't in prison.

My personal speculation on Santilli is that either his lawyer, or someone, finally got through to him that they really were going to nail his sorry ass to the wall based on all the video they had of him encouraging everything that happened as well as the otehr things he'd said, and that he wasn't going to do at all well at trial, OR , he's as big of a coward as I think he is and bluffed and postured until he couldn't take it anymore and didn't want to take his chances.
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