FFI (Cont'd.)

"Buy 1 for yourself and get the chance to sell your friends and family 5 and get your downline started!" We examine the multi-level marketing industry, where only the people who come up with the ideas make any money, and everybody else is left unhappy, broke, and tired of reading scripts and selling overpriced vitamins and similarly worthless products. Includes Global Prosperity, Pinnacle Quest International, IRS Codebusters, Stratia, and other new Global Prosperity scams.

Moderator: wserra

fuelsaving

Postby fuelsaving » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:37 pm

TheBest wrote:In my car, a Volvo with a B230F engine, the CO is 0.0 and the HC is 9 ppm, both with and without the cat. So with this product the cat has no effect.

But what about oxides of nitrogen (NOx)? This is as bad, if not worse, a pollutant as HC and CO. It is trivially easy to reduce the HC and CO emissions from an engine if you don't care about NOx. Car makers can't do it because NOx is measured on the homologation test that all new car models have to pass, but it generally isn't on in-use / annual inspection tests. It is incredibly frustrating to me when amateur inventors repeatedly come up with "fantastic" emissions-reducing devices that in fact only reduce HC and CO while making the NOx much worse.

I'm not suggesting this is what the MPG-Cap is doing, just making the point that unless you have measured NOx, it is totally irresponsible to suggest that removing the cat would have no negative effect on emissions.

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:05 pm

The NOx is reduced with an average of 33 % due to the faster burning rate.
Thats also why many fishingboat owners up here are using the product, as the government has made a new rule that they are going to pay a fee according to how much NOx their boats let out.

/TheBest

fuelsaving

Postby fuelsaving » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:55 pm

TheBest wrote:The NOx is reduced with an average of 33 % due to the faster burning rate.

*Sigh* NOx emissions always increase when the burn is made faster, because it leads to higher in-cylinder temperature.

Where is the data - other than some pictures of flames in the exhaust - that really shows the burn is speeded up? Direct measurement of burn rate is an absolutely routine part of engine development, and could be done for a few thousand Euro. Yet this multi-million-dollar company apparently can't afford to do it. Go figure...

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:00 pm

This is what happend to the NOx after 1 month using MPG-Caps.

First test, Monday July 16th 2007 Segment 1 g/km
NOx: 23.651
CO: 4.087
CO2: 1824
FuelCon (L/100k): 69.772

Second test, Friday August 17th 2007 Segment 1 g/km
NOx: 15.95
CO: 2.168
CO2: 1511
FuelCon (L/100k): 57.72

Nitrogen Monoxide (NOx) (ppm) Nitrogen monoxide is a pollutant formed by the reaction of nitrogen gas N2, and oxygen gas O2, at high temperatures in the combustion process of automobile engines. This gas is a catalyst in the reactions that cause the destruction of the ozone. They are usually measured in parts per million.

So the fact is, more and more fishingboats and even larger boats are using this to get a lower NOx fee to pay to the government. (this is espesially in Norway and Sweden).

/TheBest

ArthurRubin

Postby ArthurRubin » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:14 pm

TheBest wrote:Nitrogen Monoxide (NOx) (ppm) Nitrogen monoxide...


NO (or sometimes N2O) is Nitrogen Monoxide. NOx covers all Nitrogen Oxides, including the acid-forming, but not otherwise reactive, NO2 and NO3.

PonziKiller

Postby PonziKiller » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:16 pm

TheBest wrote:So the fact is, more and more fishingboats and even larger boats are using this to get a lower NOx fee to pay to the government. (this is espesially in Norway and Sweden).

/TheBest

And the proof for that are... :roll:


More false claims? :lol:

Wich fishingboat companies or shipping companies are using your lurium now? :wink:

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:49 pm

To be honest with you PK, I´m not intrested in discussing with you due to the fact that you can´t behave and be polite.

So, if you are not asked, just be quiet.

/TheBest

Nikki

Postby Nikki » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:08 pm

PK asked
And the proof for that are...

More false claims?

Wich fishingboat companies or shipping companies are using your lurium now?


TheBest wrote:To be honest with you PK, I´m not intrested in discussing with you due to the fact that you can´t behave and be polite.

So, if you are not asked, just be quiet.

/TheBest


Translation of TheBest's answer: I'm merely passing along apocryphal testimonials and can't back them up so I'll pretend you don't exist and maybe the question will go away.

fuelsaving

Postby fuelsaving » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:23 pm

TheBest wrote:The NOx is reduced with an average of 33 % due to the faster burning rate.

You are talking here about the Australian test - http://www.myffi.biz/au/pdf/FFi_emission_test1.pdf. I have already commented on the flaws in this testing (no A-B-A, no repeat, etc). But even taking it at face value, the 33% NOx reduction is only on one of the four "segments" of the test. On Segment 2, the NOx reduction was just 6%. So to claim an "average 33%" reduction, as if this applied to all engines in all conditions, is not reasonable.

It's also interesting to note that, for example, the HC emissions actually increased on Segments 3 and 4 when the MPG-Cap was used. Isn't the Cap supposed to "virtually eliminate emissions", or some such nonsense?

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:56 pm

Nikki wrote:PK asked
And the proof for that are...

More false claims?

Wich fishingboat companies or shipping companies are using your lurium now?


TheBest wrote:To be honest with you PK, I´m not intrested in discussing with you due to the fact that you can´t behave and be polite.

So, if you are not asked, just be quiet.

/TheBest


Translation of TheBest's answer: I'm merely passing along apocryphal testimonials and can't back them up so I'll pretend you don't exist and maybe the question will go away.


Nikki, the reason for my answer to PK goes back many years.
I don´t bother to explain more than that, and I´ll never answer or make any comments when PK is in the discussion. Period.

/TheBest

Nikki

Postby Nikki » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:03 am

Ignoring PK, assume the same questions are from me.

Do you have any proof regarding the fishing or shipping companies or is it just as valid as all the other claims -- NOT!

PonziKiller

Postby PonziKiller » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:53 pm

Nikki wrote:Ignoring PK, assume the same questions are from me.

Do you have any proof regarding the fishing or shipping companies or is it just as valid as all the other claims -- NOT!


The Best don't like critical questions about MLM scams he pushes. He don't even like people that are basicly sceptical to MLM/pyramids/ponziscams he represent.

For all of the other here in the forum, is the question very simple. That's the topic: Proof or scam. The Best have so far not been able to post any proof what so ever that the scampills reduce the fuel consumption for gasoline engines, diesel engines, heavy crude oil ships engine, jet engines or other engines with the prommising 7-14 %. That's all the evidence we all need to say SCAM! :lol:

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:53 pm

PonziKiller wrote:
Nikki wrote:Ignoring PK, assume the same questions are from me.

Do you have any proof regarding the fishing or shipping companies or is it just as valid as all the other claims -- NOT!


The Best don't like critical questions about MLM scams he pushes. He don't even like people that are basicly sceptical to MLM/pyramids/ponziscams he represent.

For all of the other here in the forum, is the question very simple. That's the topic: Proof or scam. The Best have so far not been able to post any proof what so ever that the scampills reduce the fuel consumption for gasoline engines, diesel engines, heavy crude oil ships engine, jet engines or other engines with the prommising 7-14 %. That's all the evidence we all need to say SCAM! :lol:


:?: Well PK. I´ll answer your question the day you know the difference between MLM, pyramid schemes and ponziescams.
You know, the difference is BIG, VERY BIG.

In the meantime, have a look at this:
http://www.wfdsa.org/library/index.cfm? ... omic_facts


TheBest :lol: :!:

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wserra
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Postby wserra » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:06 pm

TheBest wrote:Well PK. I´ll answer your question the day you know the difference between MLM, pyramid schemes and ponziescams.


PK probably knows what makes a business a pyramid scheme. I definitely do.

A pyramid is legally characterized by
the payment by participants of money to the company in return for which they receive (1) the right to sell a product and (2) the right to receive in return for recruiting other participants into the program rewards which are unrelated to sale of the product to ultimate users.
In Re Koscot Interplanetary, Inc., 86 F.T.C. 1106 (1975). Courts interpret the phrase "ultimate users" to mean people who are not distributors. See, for example, Webster v. Omnitrition International, Inc., 79 F.3d 776 (9th Cir. 1996). The FTC's rule of thumb is that 70% of sold products must be to ultimate users rather than distributors. If a particular business does not meet the 70% sales figure, the FTC presumes that the "business" is selling the opportunity rather than the product, and is thus a pyramid.

So - please provide proof that 70% of FFI's "products" (such as they are) are sold to people who are not distributors. Can't do that? Oh, yeah, I forgot that, to FFIers, the word "proof" is just five random letters.

In the meantime, have a look at this:
http://www.wfdsa.org/library/index.cfm? ... omic_facts


Oooh. The web site of the "World Federation of Direct Selling Associations" - the trade group of pyra^H^H^H^H MLM operators. There's an unbiased source.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:39 pm

Wserra, for your information, we dont get a cent for signing up people (selling an opportunity). The only provision we get is when a product is sold. (as it should be in a MLM company).
(maybe thats why we are approved, as 1 of 2 MLM-companies, in Australia).

Getting paid for signing up people, thats a pyramidscam.

/TheBest

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webhick
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Postby webhick » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:43 pm

From the FFI website, I thought this was interesting:

Sponsor one person on your right side who personally generates at least 100 PSV by either purchasing the Regular or the Premium Package or obtaining the volume through retail sales, and one person on your left side who personally generates 100 PSV by either purchasing the Regular or the Premium Package or obtaining the volume through retail sales, and you are qualified to earn commissions. This can be done at any time.


What this says to me is that by purchasing the Regular or Premium Package membership, I automatically earn 100 PSV (Personal Sales Volume). And, from what I was reading, you earn commission based on the GSV (Group Sales Volume) which is comprised of your downline's PSV - which could be earned wholly through the purchase of memberships. In fact, it is plausible for a short period of time to have your entire GSV to consist of PSV's earned from membership purchase.

If the Regular and Premium membership purchase is really worth 100 PSV and it counts in the GSV which you earn commission based on, then you really are earning money off signing people up.
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:50 pm

webhick wrote:From the FFI website, I thought this was interesting:

Sponsor one person on your right side who personally generates at least 100 PSV by either purchasing the Regular or the Premium Package or obtaining the volume through retail sales, and one person on your left side who personally generates 100 PSV by either purchasing the Regular or the Premium Package or obtaining the volume through retail sales, and you are qualified to earn commissions. This can be done at any time.


What this says to me is that by purchasing the Regular or Premium Package membership, I automatically earn 100 PSV (Personal Sales Volume). And, from what I was reading, you earn commission based on the GSV (Group Sales Volume) which is comprised of your downline's PSV - which could be earned wholly through the purchase of memberships. In fact, it is plausible for a short period of time to have your entire GSV to consist of PSV's earned from membership purchase.

If the Regular and Premium membership purchase is really worth 100 PSV and it counts in the GSV which you earn commission based on, then you really are earning money off signing people up.


And, where will you come with this?
A regular package is when you buy 6 packs of pills or 5 bottles of boost.= 100 points
A premium package is when you buy 12 packs of pills or 10 bottles of boost.=200 points.
People can sign up and start selling products without buying a regular or premium package. Then you get nothing. When they sell products then you earn your provision.

So please, don´t try teach me how this works without doing your homework.

/TheBest

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Postby wserra » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:32 pm

TheBest wrote:So please, don´t try teach me how this works without doing your homework.


Pretty arrogant for someone ignorant of the law.

In your reply to me, you virtually had an orgasm over how FFI "doesn't get a cent" for just signing people up.

As my six-year-old would say, "well, DUH." Congratulations to FFI for not being a chain letter. That doesn't imply it's not a pyramid. So answer my question: provide proof of the percentage of its sales which FFI makes to non-distributors. Can't do that, can you? And the sale of a non-existent "product" - say, a pill you put in your gas tank which does nothing - is in fact the legal equivalent of selling the opportunity. For that matter, it can be inferred that the sale of a product grossly overpriced for its value is also an indication that the "opportunity" is really what is for sale. If the people who are going to buy what the company sells at the price it charges are predominantly the distributors, you are prima facie a pyramid.

Do your homework.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

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webhick
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Postby webhick » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:39 pm

TheBest wrote:And, where will you come with this?

I don't understand the question. I got the information off FFI's website.

TheBest wrote:A regular package is when you buy 6 packs of pills or 5 bottles of boost.= 100 points
A premium package is when you buy 12 packs of pills or 10 bottles of boost.=200 points.


Actually, according to the website:

Product Packages

Regular Package $105.95 100 CV
6 Blister Packs of 10-MPG-CAPSTM

Premium Package $211.95 200 CV
12 Blister Packs of 10-MPG-CAPSTM


No mention of buying the boost product. They need to update their site.

So, is the Regular and Premium Packages the same as the Regular and Premium Product Packages? Because the wording is deceiving. I've seen plenty of pyramid schemes that have "Premium" packages and it has nothing to do with products. Also, how much does it cost you, as a distributor, to purchase those 6 packs of pills without purchasing the package? I can only find the retail price (during a quick search), which is obviously higher than a distributor's price.

Also, according to the website:

# Regular Member: Purchase the Regular Product Package
# Premium Member: Purchase the Premium Product Package


So membership is determined by what you buy to get started with (and then changes according to volume). What if I don't start out on your downline that way. What if I generated that 100 PSV through retail sales? It doesn't look like there's any rank that deals with just selling 100 PSV worth of stuff, if the Regular/Premium/Distributor requires purchasing a product package and all other Ranks require you to be a Premium Member first. What happens if you're "unranked"? Do you and the sponsor earn a decreased commission on that person's sales versus if they were a "Premium" member?

TheBest wrote:People can sign up and start selling products without buying a regular or premium package. Then you get nothing. When they sell products then you earn your provision.


Yes, I saw that. 100 PSV in retail sales. But then they don't get a rank and you don't make it to Level 1 of the "Leadership Matching Business" unless you sign up 6 other "Premium" members. Signing up retail sales folks greatly hinders your progress and downline. In which case, the only way to earn money would be to make them sign up as a "Premium" member.

TheBest wrote:So please, don´t try teach me how this works without doing your homework.


Please don't assume I was trying to teach you anything. Notice my use of the word "IF" at the start of the last paragraph.

I'm only repeating what I understand of what's on FFI's website. If I've got something wrong, I don't mind being corrected. But I would like to request that you at least be civil about it.
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie

TheBest

Postby TheBest » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am

Sorry, webhick. Just got upset by the way wserra writes, without acctually knowing what he is talking about.

Back to the issue.

If you just buy your website and starts selling products, you get paid the difference between members price and retail price.
In fact thats more to earn to sell to customers thats not in the network. If you sell for approx. 200 - 220 points you get approx. 40 $ in commision. To do that in the network you have to sell for approx. 800 points (900 points (300+600) = 50 $).

The reason for not having the boost in the Regular or Premium Product Package is that the pills where the first product. But here up north where I live the pills doesn´t dissolve in diesel, as fast as they should, when the temerature goes down. Thats why I mentioned the boost. And its of no relevance what product you buy to become regular or premium member.

We all buy a starter kit, thats the website for 1 yr. incl. a debet pay card. If you then wants to become regular, buy products for 100 points, and 200 points for premium.

But I like to sell the products in retail as it gives more provision.
And no matter what wserra says, the products do work.(he would have seen that for him self if he had cared to try the product, it be the pills or the boost (the boost is pills in liquid form).

/TheBest


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