Verifying Scammers' Income

"Buy 1 for yourself and get the chance to sell your friends and family 5 and get your downline started!" We examine the multi-level marketing industry, where only the people who come up with the ideas make any money, and everybody else is left unhappy, broke, and tired of reading scripts and selling overpriced vitamins and similarly worthless products. Includes Global Prosperity, Pinnacle Quest International, IRS Codebusters, Stratia, and other new Global Prosperity scams.

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Arthur Rubin
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Verifying Scammers' Income

Postby Arthur Rubin » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:53 am

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:
Arthur Rubin wrote:
GoldandSilverEagles wrote:Third, and most important, brand-X won't pay me to use/recommend their products!
No problem, if you're on shopping.com, or one of the other pay-for-review consumer sites.

Care to show me the people who do that and make over two grand a month part time, month after month?


Actually, I can name two who (have stated they) are willing to provide proof that they make that much. Can you supply that many for Quixtar?
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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:41 am

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:
Arthur Rubin wrote:
GoldandSilverEagles wrote:Third, and most important, brand-X won't pay me to use/recommend their products!
No problem, if you're on shopping.com, or one of the other pay-for-review consumer sites.

Care to show me the people who do that and make over two grand a month part time, month after month?


Arthur Rubin wrote: Actually, I can name two who (have stated they) are willing to provide proof that they make that much. Can you supply that many for Quixtar?

Only two. :roll:

I can supply you with a source of names of at least several dozen, along with instructions of how to verify what they are averaging per month.

That's "d" as in dozen and done deal.

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wserra
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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby wserra » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:11 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:I can supply you with a source of names of at least several dozen, along with instructions of how to verify what they are averaging per month.


Why don't you just tell us how one would go about "verifying" the information?
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
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GoldandSilverEagles

Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:34 pm

wserra wrote:
GoldandSilverEagles wrote:I can supply you with a source of names of at least several dozen, along with instructions of how to verify what they are averaging per month.


Why don't you just tell us how one would go about "verifying" the information?


"...* The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Q12 Platinum, an IBO who qualifies at the Platinum level all 12 months of the year, were $47,472.*..."

http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/ibo_statistics.html

Since IBO's are working full time occupations while they are at the Platinum level, it stands to reason they only dedicated a part time effort to achieve and maintain their businesses at the Platinum level.

I've talked with countless Platinums. Not one has ever told me they built their Platinumship on a full time basis, time wise. When built properly, It's not required.

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby wserra » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:03 am

Sorry, "it stands to reason" =! verification. Lawyers have to verify others' income all the time, and laugh at the idea of "standing to reason". An authorization to obtain records from an employer/payor works, as does an authorization to the IRS for income tax filings.

Why is it that, despite every MLM scammer and his cousin bragging about (and recruiting based on) their supposed wealth, real verification is never forthcoming?
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:51 am

wserra wrote:Sorry, "it stands to reason" =! verification. Lawyers have to verify others' income all the time, and laugh at the idea of "standing to reason". An authorization to obtain records from an employer/payor works, as does an authorization to the IRS for income tax filings.

Why is it that, despite every MLM scammer and his cousin bragging about (and recruiting based on) their supposed wealth, real verification is never forthcoming?


Dude, you are way-y too full of yourself. :roll:

Though I do recognize that someone like yourself is trained and geared 2wards looking at life through the rose colored glasses of being **legally correct**.

Now for a dose of reality, Mr. lawyer, Amway, became a multi-billion $$ world-wide Corporation in light of cynics like yourself, and they did it legally, with the exception of a few bumps here and there.

"Since IBO's are working full time occupations while they are at the Platinum level, it stands to reason they only dedicated a part time effort to achieve and maintain their businesses at the Platinum level."

My claim is far from laughable, ridiculous.

However, If you insist that my claim is in fact ridiculous, then I encourage and welcome for you to prove me wrong.

And I'll make it relatively simple for you:

There are Amway functions in New York. Attend one, and locate some Platinum's and ask them, for yourself, how many hours a week they invested in their businesses to achieve the Platinum level.

Or do you prefer to sit back in your laziness and big ego behind your PC and monitor and insist in demonstrating contempt prior to investigation, your own personal investigation that is?

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby wserra » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:31 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:I can supply you with a source of names of at least several dozen, along with instructions of how to verify what they are averaging per month.
wserra wrote:Why don't you just tell us how one would go about "verifying" the information?
GoldandSilverEagles wrote:it stands to reason they....
wserra wrote:Sorry, "it stands to reason" =! verification .... Why is it that, despite every MLM scammer and his cousin bragging about (and recruiting based on) their supposed wealth, real verification is never forthcoming?
GoldandSilverEagles wrote:If you insist that my claim is in fact ridiculous, then I encourage and welcome for you to prove me wrong.


Recap:

GASP: I can prove X.

WS: Go ahead. X is something that must be proven in the real world quite often, and is done easily, with readily obtainable documents.

GASP: Accept certain dubious premises. X then stands to reason.

WS: That's not proof.

GASP: Oh, yeah? Prove me wrong.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby Arthur Rubin » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:58 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:
Arthur Rubin wrote:Care to show me the people who do that and make over two grand a month part time, month after month?


Arthur Rubin wrote: Actually, I can name two who (have stated they) are willing to provide proof that they make that much. Can you supply that many for Quixtar?

Only two. :roll:

I can supply you with a source of names of at least several dozen, along with instructions of how to verify what they are averaging per month.

That's "d" as in dozen and done deal.


As I've said before, my two have offered proof. You haven't yet claimed that your dmmies offered proof, although, you've now claimed that they've offered a way you can verify the statements. Fine. Let me know when you've verified them, and let us known what the verification method is.
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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:16 pm

Arthur Rubin wrote:As I've said before, my two have offered proof. You haven't yet claimed that your dmmies offered proof, although, you've now claimed that they've offered a way you can verify the statements. Fine. Let me know when you've verified them, and let us known what the verification method is.



* IBOs earned $370.1 million in bonuses and incentives in fiscal 2006, bringing their seven-year total to more than $1.72 billion.
* More than 370,000 Independent Business Owners received a bonus in FY 05.
* The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Diamond IBO in 2005 were $146,995.*
* The average bonus and cash payments earned by an Emerald in 2005 were $72,241.*
* The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Q12 Platinum, an IBO who qualifies at the Platinum level all 12 months of the year, were $47,472.*
* The largest annual bonus earned by a Diamond IBO in 2005 was $1,083,421.
* The largest annual bonus earned by an Emerald IBO in 2005 was $688,869.

http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/ibo_statistics.html

"...* The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Q12 Platinum, an IBO who qualifies at the Platinum level all 12 months of the year, were $47,472.*.."

IBO's invest a part time effort to achieve the Platinum level. Contact an Amway Global IBO in your area and ask to review their current issues of the Amway magazine, "Achieve". 2wards the back of the magazine is an area dedicated to recognition of achievement. It is very common to see several pictures of IBO's (along with their names and where they are from,) that have (recently) achieve the Platinum level.

I've met and talked with countless Platinums. No one has ever told me they put in anything more than a part time effort to Achieve the Platinum.

Now, how can you verify my claims? Simple. Locate a public opportunity meeting put on by some Amway IBO's. There not hard to find, just ask IBO's in your area. When you attend the meeting, ask people where you can find the "Platinum's". When you are introduced to some, ask them, for yourself, if what I'm saying is true.

It's really that simple, unlike wserra who "gets off" on complicating things through his mental masturbation.

And yes, Amway does have some very effective laundry products that can even take stains, like his, out of a pair of his trousers. :P

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby wserra » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:29 am

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:Now, how can you verify my claims? Simple. Locate a public opportunity meeting put on by some Amway IBO's. There not hard to find, just ask IBO's in your area. When you attend the meeting, ask people where you can find the "Platinum's". When you are introduced to some, ask them, for yourself, if what I'm saying is true.


And after the revival meeting, go up to Elmer Gantry and ask him if he can really heal the sick.

It's really that simple, unlike wserra who "gets off" on complicating things through his mental masturbation.


That's some nice "verification" there, Lou.
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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby Imalawman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:33 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:Now, how can you verify my claims? Simple. Locate a public opportunity meeting put on by some Amway IBO's. There not hard to find, just ask IBO's in your area. When you attend the meeting, ask people where you can find the "Platinum's". When you are introduced to some, ask them, for yourself, if what I'm saying is true.


Done that. And yes, they claimed that is what they were making. However, later I came to fine out the truth - they weren't making close to that and what they did make that was in that range was from media sales. Come on, how much did you make in the system? How much are you making now? How about your direct upline?

But back on point, I asked to see his schedule C or his latest quarterly business statements. Nope. Didn't happen. They want to say that they all make the money from PV but they never want to PROVE it.

It's really that simple, unlike wserra who "gets off" on complicating things through his mental masturbation.


Hey, I made 2 million dollars last month as a tax lawyer. I guess that means that I've verified my income level. Sweet.

How about some proof legal beagles. Quit acting like you're really that stupid to suggest the company website is actually proof. How about providing the hourly wage breakdown of someone that is Direct (or emerald now)? After all, about 85% of Away Global IBOs never get there anyway. Its a stupid business concept that offers nothing meaningful in life. I guess if all that you're after is to make money off of gullible people - maybe you can get lucky, get into the media sales and make some decent money. You have a better chance of being struck by lightning, but go ahead.

I'll take the rewarding career. Meet me in 20 years and we'll see who came out better.
Last edited by wserra on Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix quotes.
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GoldandSilverEagles

Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:03 pm

Imalawman wrote:Hey, I made 2 million dollars last month as a tax lawyer. I guess that means that I've verified my income level. Sweet.

How about some proof legal beagles. Quit acting like you're really that stupid to suggest the company website is actually proof. How about providing the hourly wage breakdown of someone that is Direct (or emerald now)? After all, about 85% of Away Global IBOs never get there anyway. Its a stupid business concept that offers nothing meaningful in life. I guess if all that you're after is to make money off of gullible people - maybe you can get lucky, get into the media sales and make some decent money. You have a better chance of being struck by lightning, but go ahead.


"Now, how can you verify my claims? Simple. Locate a public opportunity meeting put on by some Amway IBO's. There not hard to find, just ask IBO's in your area. When you attend the meeting, ask people where you can find the "Platinum's". When you are introduced to some, ask them, for yourself, if what I'm saying is true."

While you were busy beating you chest in between your making 2 million Tarzan it is very clear, crystal clear you neglected to read everything I said... :roll:

I'm glad your not doing my taxes buckwheat.
Last edited by GoldandSilverEagles on Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby LaVidaRoja » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:06 pm

And of course, these platinum people will tell you honestly and forthrightly how much time they spend, what their gross is, and what their expenses are.
Little boys who tell lies grow up to be weathermen.

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:39 pm

LaVidaRoja wrote:And of course, these platinum people will tell you honestly and forthrightly how much time they spend, what their gross is, and what their expenses are.

Those are very good points. I'd recommend that you attend a business function and ask them yourself.

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby Imalawman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:17 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:
LaVidaRoja wrote:And of course, these platinum people will tell you honestly and forthrightly how much time they spend, what their gross is, and what their expenses are.

Those are very good points. I'd recommend that you attend a business function and ask them yourself.


hahaha, I have and I've done that too. They're very, very vague and constantly evade the tough questions about their business. When you finally ask a pointed question they clam up and claim its their private information. I have yet to have anyone in the "business" offer me a financial statement. I have even offered to trade - i'll give them my personal 1040 information (ssn and private info redacted of course). But no - no dice. Not even and un-audited financial statement. So, Golden, I've done what you've suggested and gotten nowhere in the past. Anything else? better yet - how about you ask a platinum next time you're around one. See if they'll give you any actual financial information. I'm not even asking for personal tax info - just a business income statement.

Its a free country and they don't have to give a single bit of information. But then again, I have every right to doubt them when they claim to be making money off selling the product.
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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:58 am

Imalawman wrote:hahaha, I have and I've done that too. They're very, very vague and constantly evade the tough questions about their business. When you finally ask a pointed question they clam up and claim its their private information. I have yet to have anyone in the "business" offer me a financial statement. I have even offered to trade - i'll give them my personal 1040 information (ssn and private info redacted of course). But no - no dice. Not even and un-audited financial statement. So, Golden, I've done what you've suggested and gotten nowhere in the past.
How do I now for a fact that you're not making your whole "pissing in the wind" story up? Lawyers are notorious for lying. How do I know you're not a liar? How can I verify your story lawyer boy?

Anything else? better yet - how about you ask a platinum next time you're around one. See if they'll give you any actual financial information. I'm not even asking for personal tax info - just a business income statement.

Its a free country and they don't have to give a single bit of information. But then again, I have every right to doubt them when they claim to be making money off selling the product.

You've been claiming since day one in here that Amway IBO's misrepresent their business. It;'s a waste of time and energy to further this debate, but I will tell you lawyer boy, your hands aren't as clean as you portray yourself.

You have a major element of misrepresentation whenever you are representing your "clients". You'd like your clients to believe that your first point of concern and obligation is to them, and that's pure BS! How upfront are you with your clients in disclosing to them that your FIRST obligation IS NOT to them, your first concern is how much $$$ you can extract/extort out of their pockets! Then your obligated to the courts, b4 you are obligated to your clients.

Talk about a legalized screw job!

Disclosing these to your clients, b4 they contract with you, would be consistent with maintaining full disclosure, and lawyers, as a predator, rarely offer this bit of info to their clients.

Talk about a lack of integrity. Lawyers and integrity, there's an oxymoron!

Lawyers also have a very high incident of alcohol and drug abuse. Do you disclose that to your clients b4 contracting with them? Hell no!

So b4 you start claiming misrepresentation, and lack of integrity, look in the mirror at your own industry first son.
Last edited by GoldandSilverEagles on Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby LaVidaRoja » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:53 am

GASE - I hate to intrude reality into your fantisies, but look at the Tax Court cases involving Amway
Little boys who tell lies grow up to be weathermen.

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:09 am

LaVidaRoja wrote:GASE - I hate to intrude reality into your fantisies, but look at the Tax Court cases involving Amway

And your point is? ..... :roll:

BTW, "fantisies" when correctly spelled is spelled f-a-n-t-a-s-i-e-s.
Next time use spell check. lol

Nikki

Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby Nikki » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:12 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:Next time use spell check. lol


Pot, kettle ...

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Re: Quixtar v. Monavie

Postby Imalawman » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:09 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:You have a major element of misrepresentation whenever you are representing your "clients". You'd like your clients to believe that your first point of concern and obligation is to them, and that's pure BS! How upfront are you with your clients in disclosing to them that your FIRST obligation IS NOT to them, your first concern is how much $$$ you can extract/extort out of their pockets! Then your obligated to the courts, b4 you are obligated to your clients.

Talk about a legalized screw job!

Disclosing these to your clients, b4 they contract with you, would be consistent with maintaining full disclosure, and lawyers, as a predator, rarely offer this bit of info to their clients.

Talk about a lack of integrity. Lawyers and integrity, there's an oxymoron!

Lawyers also have a very high incident of alcohol and drug abuse. Do you disclose that to your clients b4 contracting with them? Hell no!

So b4 you start claiming misrepresentation, and lack of integrity, look in the mirror at your own industry first son.


Feel better now?
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