MLM Income Disclosures

"Buy 1 for yourself and get the chance to sell your friends and family 5 and get your downline started!" We examine the multi-level marketing industry, where only the people who come up with the ideas make any money, and everybody else is left unhappy, broke, and tired of reading scripts and selling overpriced vitamins and similarly worthless products. Includes Global Prosperity, Pinnacle Quest International, IRS Codebusters, Stratia, and other new Global Prosperity scams.

Moderator: wserra

User avatar
JamesVincent
A Councilor of the Kabosh
Posts: 2647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:01 am

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby JamesVincent » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:18 pm

wserra wrote:OK, James, I'll bite. Which ones do you believe offer a realistic possibility of doing that?


Realistically, with a minimum of cash upfront or ongoing? One24 seems to be doing well for me and others right now. MBP Today, which I have a few friends doing, seems to be working well for them and probably has the lowest cash outlay of the ones Ive looked at. Numis, I have friends doing well in, but it is definitely not a part time program and has some serious cash outlay and definitely needs someone experienced. Send Out Cards, once you get into it and get moving seems to do well. Again, not a part time thing and has some serious cash outlay involved. Again, Numis and SOC are product driven ones but the real money is from the recruitment. You do make a small amount of money from the product and services rendered but nowhere near what you do from recruitment. ComF5, since they restructured, seems to be going well. You would make a good amount here for product also, but still more for recruitment. They are another one thats stepped to a full time serious marketer.

Honestly, for someone looking to get started with no experience, can afford $200 upfront and wants to work it part time, I would say MBP Today. It has a pretty good plan, has a product that 99% of Americans can use, and has a good built in support system. Once you make that initial outlay its I believe $40/ year website fee and thats it. Pretty straight forward comp plan and my one friend has been in it about 4 months and clears about $2k/ month. It will be my second one when I hit the point where I can split a little bit. And, as a side benefit, you get discounted groceries through your website.

I also have a friend doing very well in Primo Vacations, but another one I would not recommend for a part timer or beginner. Its hard to make money on a one up matrix, but if you can you can make very good money. I believe hes making about $7-8k/ month. Plus the up front is like $600 if I remember correctly.
"Just knowing we're in the same genus makes me embarrassed to call myself Homo." Professor Farnsworth

User avatar
soapboxmom
Matriarch of the Networked Soap Sales
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:00 am

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby soapboxmom » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:57 pm

My best friend, who had been living with us for some time, I met through my blogging about these uneconomic schemes. I can attest from dealing with her bank accounts, credit card accounts and storing her entire estate such as it is that the losses from her involvement in MLM were beyond horrific. Her involvment in MLM led her to bankruptcy and ultimately the financial disaster contributed to her choice to end her own life. She was so far down financially she couldn't see any way to get back on her feet.

I have had the heartbreaking task of laying her to rest this week. What little she had left in the world is in a couple of piles of small boxes in our house. Her only child got photo albums, family china and broken dreams. My family is left to donate her few remaining meager belongings to charity.

She was surrounded with a few heavy hitters claiming immense wealth and fantastic success. In truth 98% of her fellow reps lost money as she had. Many lost thousands of dollars they could not afford to lose. When they were selling the business many had fabulous stories to tell and boundless enthusiasm. After it all came crashing down there were bankruptcies, foreclosures, retirement funds drained, insurmountable credit card debt and worse.

This just steeled my resove to expose the real truth behind these deals. I never want to see another person ruined financially or God forbid have to bury another valued friend.

Soapboxmom
Last edited by soapboxmom on Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JamesVincent
A Councilor of the Kabosh
Posts: 2647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:01 am

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby JamesVincent » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:15 pm

Sorry to hear that Soapbox. My condolences to you and the family.

Wserra, I dont trust anyone to tell me the truth. The reason I know how hes doing is he took me in his back office and showed me what hes doing. I also know, since we were in the same MLM before, which is where we met, that he has has problems making a decent living with other MLMs. The one we were in together he was making about $500-$600/ month in. Hes still in it since he uses their software to promote his new one and makes around $300/ month through them now in residual. When we talked about SOC before and I told you a friend of mine makes close to a million a year through them, I wasnt joking. Ive seen what he has and what he does, been to his house and worked on his furniture. Hes also been in MLMs for a long time and built a reputation and a downline that works well. I have admitted and helped research ones that are out and out fraud or so impossible to make money that they are worthless. But if they were all scams, then the people I have met and seen and know who make money, wouldnt be. It is at the end of the day, a business model, some are better than others and some worse, and some scams.

And like I said before, I personally would support full disclosure of all monies earned, through bonuses and residuals, to any who looked at them, so that a normal person can fully research and understand what they are getting into to. I do not try to trick people into my business or the MLM way of life, which is probably why its a struggle for me sometimes and I know with the way I personally do things it will take me about 2 years or so to get to the point where I can feel comfortable with the income, and I will work to that goal. But it is not the only thing Im doing and I still own my real business and will still make money somewhere else until the other income will be more than what I do now.
"Just knowing we're in the same genus makes me embarrassed to call myself Homo." Professor Farnsworth

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby wserra » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:19 am

I'm really sorry, SBM. That's a pretty horrible story.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

User avatar
Cathulhu
Order of the Quatloos, Brevet First Class
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:51 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby Cathulhu » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:10 am

Same as Wes said. That's awful, and I'm sorry for your loss. You obviously cared for her. Let your outrage fuel your passion for showing these scum as they are.
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby wserra » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:23 pm

JamesVincent wrote:
wserra wrote:OK, James, I'll bite. Which ones do you believe offer a realistic possibility of doing that?


Realistically, with a minimum of cash upfront or ongoing? One24 seems to be doing well for me and others right now. MBP Today, which I have a few friends doing, seems to be working well for them and probably has the lowest cash outlay of the ones Ive looked at.


I created threads for "MPB Today" and for "One24".
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

User avatar
webhick
Illuminati Obfuscation: Black Ops Div
Posts: 3868
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:41 am

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby webhick » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:37 pm

wserra wrote:
JamesVincent wrote:
wserra wrote:OK, James, I'll bite. Which ones do you believe offer a realistic possibility of doing that?


Realistically, with a minimum of cash upfront or ongoing? One24 seems to be doing well for me and others right now. MBP Today, which I have a few friends doing, seems to be working well for them and probably has the lowest cash outlay of the ones Ive looked at.


I created threads for "MPB Today" and for "One24".


I merged the One24 thread into an existing one, so the info is all in one place.
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:23 am

wserra wrote:Ever wonder what the average MLM distributor makes?

Wserra, in comparison to the info your provided, on a world-wide basis, what does the average lawyer make? :?:

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby wserra » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:53 pm

I have no idea.

What's your point?
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:46 am

wserra wrote:I have no idea.

What's your point?


Critics bash mlm 4 a variety of reasons. One critique is what the masses of mlmers make.

Imo it is similar to the practice of law in one regard:

A few make a lot.

The majority make much much less.

Imo those who practice law and find a profitable niche can make t-r-e-m-e-n-d-o-u-s incomes. But that doesn't mean that every single lawyer will make a tremendous income.

By the same token, there is a minority of ppl within mlm who also make a t-r-e-m-e-n-d-o-u-s income, but that is a very small minority, similar in percentage to the top achievers in law.

Now, to discount mlm on the basis the majority of mlmer's don't make much is similar to saying that one should realize the practice of law isn't very profitable because a*lot of lawyers dont make much more than a "living" at it.

Frankly, I know lawyers that make a pittance compared to others that make much much more, reflective of their life style.

That is my point.

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby wserra » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:33 pm

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:Now, to discount mlm on the basis the majority of mlmer's don't make much is similar to saying that one should realize the practice of law isn't very profitable because a*lot of lawyers dont make much more than a "living" at it.


Unfortunately, that's not what I or those others who "discount mlm" say.

In terms of expected income, I "discount mlm" because they all advertise themselves to the marks as the opportunity of a lifetime. From Quixtar to the latest in Johnny Superhype's string of pyramids, they all claim to hold the secret to your future. They all use the incomes of the top earners - those at the top of the pyramid - to entice others to join, when those at the bottom of the pyramid have no chance of duplicating those incomes. Why did they fight the FTC's proposed bizopp disclosure rules tooth and nail? And why do those few on which income figures are available (almost all public) do their best to disguise how bad they are, in the ways described in this thread? Because those figures blow their advertising to hell and back.

I don't seem to recall seeing any similar claims for the legal profession - or the medical profession, or bakers, bankers or candlestick makers, for that matter.

In addition, of course, most of them are pyramids. And even those which are not legally pyramids share the business model that makes them terrible opportunities - unless you're on top. I similarly don't recall pyramid schemes being part of the practice of law.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:16 am

wserra wrote: They all use the incomes of the top earners - those at the top of the pyramid - to entice others to join, when those at the bottom of the pyramid have no chance of duplicating those incomes.

And you can prove your allegation how?

I don't seem to recall seeing any similar claims for the legal profession - or the medical profession, or bakers, bankers or candlestick makers, for that matter.
lol...There called career counselors. They can be found in hschools and colleges. Also the incomes of those professional are published in the main stream media.

In addition, of course, most of them are pyramids. And even those which are not legally pyramids share the business model that makes them terrible opportunities - unless you're on top. I similarly don't recall pyramid schemes being part of the practice of law.

I'm not talking about pyramid schemes, I'm taking about mlm.

And I don't recall seeing any legit mlm business conduct itself as as illegal pyramid scheme and remain in business.

Arthur Rubin
Tupa-O-Quatloosia
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 12:02 am
Location: Brea, CA

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby Arthur Rubin » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:26 am

GoldandSilverEagles wrote:And I don't recall seeing any legit mlm business conduct itself as as illegal pyramid scheme and remain in business.
That's not the question. Even in a legitimate mlm, only a few people make a noticable amount of money. If they operate as a pyramid scheme, they often reappear under a new name a few days after being shut down. Hence, if the business doesn't remain in business, the operator still remains in business with only short breaks for trial.
Arthur Rubin, unemployed tax preparer and aerospace engineer
ImageJoin the Blue Ribbon Online Free Speech Campaign!

Butterflies are free. T-shirts are $19.95 $24.95 $29.95

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby wserra » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:42 am

Excellent article on MLM income distribution in - of all places - the Salt Lake Tribune.

More later.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:44 am

wserra wrote:Excellent article on MLM income distribution in - of all places - the Salt Lake Tribune.

More later.

why do you feel it is an 'excellent article' ?

GoldandSilverEagles

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby GoldandSilverEagles » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:39 am

Excellent article and comments! :D

"Amway North America – a stunning new statistic!"

http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/amway ... statistic/

melanie14

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby melanie14 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:57 am

I'm assuming it's because like 70% of the people who don't make money only went in it because they wanted wholesale products, and 25% are the ones who failed, not MLM, and the other 5% never tried in the first place so they didn't fail, they just gave up.
Last edited by wserra on Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Remove commercial links. No commercials, please.

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby wserra » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:27 am

melanie14 wrote:I'm assuming it's because like 70% of the people who don't make money only went in it because they wanted wholesale products


On what basis do you assume that? "Inventory loading" - distributors buying for themselves, not to use, but to qualify - is such a problem that court decisions analyzing whether the company is a pyramid cite it. People have garages filled with unsold, unused stuff. One would more likely conclude the opposite - that people do not join to use the products, but rather with visions of pink Cadillacs. Wonder where those visions came from?

and 25% are the ones who failed, not MLM, and the other 5% never tried in the first place so they didn't fail, they just gave up.


Do you have any basis at all for those numbers?
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

User avatar
Kestrel
Endangerer of Stupid Species
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:09 pm
Location: Hovering overhead, scanning for prey

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby Kestrel » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:28 am

Mary Kay has a glitzy office on the ground floor of my office building, and we frequently see the Pink Car. It's a compact / small sedan model - next time I see it I'll find out what it is, but it sure isn't a full size anything.

Mary Kay recently added several women I see regularly into their fold, women who are considering this as a possible business opportunity, in part because the company they work for will be closing in a few months. Generally they're financially conservative women. But most of them are not financially sophisticated, which makes them vulnerable to Mary Kay BEE-LIEVE!

Anyway, I went looking for Mary Kay Income Disclosures to try to dissuade a couple of them. I found the Mary Kay Canada 2010 Earnings Representation Statement. When you read between the lines and do the math, the results are about as pathetic as every other MLM. Only 6.2% of the 2010 Mary Kay Canada sales force stayed in the business more than a year AND earned more than $100 in commissions. Less than one percent of the 2010 Mary Kay Canada sales force actually earned $17,650 or more in commissions. The other 99%+ had total Mary Kay earnings way below the poverty level or lost money.

The subtitle of the Mary Kay Canada website is "Enriching Women's Lives." Mmm-hmmm. You have to be imbibing pretty heavily in the pink kool-aid to keep on BEE-LIEVING that one.

I also found Pink Truth, which is helpful because it gives the straight scoop without getting buried in college-level statistical analysis.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." - Robert Heinlein

User avatar
Cathulhu
Order of the Quatloos, Brevet First Class
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:51 pm

Re: MLM Income Disclosures

Postby Cathulhu » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:38 am

Mary Kay makeup sucks. It's oily and waxy and if it even touches my skin, I break out. The Mary Kay and Avon ladies are why there's a big rack of swords in the entryway, it makes them run screaming.
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold


Return to “MLM Scams Forum (as if any of them aren't)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest