Mannatech on 20/20

"Buy 1 for yourself and get the chance to sell your friends and family 5 and get your downline started!" We examine the multi-level marketing industry, where only the people who come up with the ideas make any money, and everybody else is left unhappy, broke, and tired of reading scripts and selling overpriced vitamins and similarly worthless products. Includes Global Prosperity, Pinnacle Quest International, IRS Codebusters, Stratia, and other new Global Prosperity scams.

Moderator: wserra

User avatar
buck09
Quatloosian Baron of the Unknown Statute
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:01 pm

Mannatech on 20/20

Postby buck09 » Thu May 31, 2007 10:43 pm

20/20 is going to run an expose on Mannatech this Friday. (6/1)

Their stock price has already taken a dive as a result of the pre-publicity.

There's a teaser video currently online at: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/

chefbrian

Postby chefbrian » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:15 am

Hmmmm....

Seems I saw that one before.

Only it was CBC Marketplace doing an investigative report on Earl Mindel and his Goji Juice earlier this year.

Good for 20/20!

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Postby wserra » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:03 pm

chefbrian wrote:Hmmmm....

Seems I saw that one before.


You did, Brian. One of these days the mainstream media will report on the industry, instead of individual companies (Quixtar, Mindel, Mannatech). When their "associates" are caught doing the sort of stuff the reports show, the companies just say, "Well, that's associates speaking for themselves." I'm sure that Mannatech is shocked, shocked that its associates are claiming that its sugar pills cure cancer, just as Biohazardance is shocked, shocked that its associates are still representing that its garbage will improve mileage. The reality is that the companies could stop it overnight if they wanted - "You're out." But, in an industry which loses one-third to one-half of its distributors every year anyway, the last thing they want to do is lose more. So they wink at it, if not actually encourage it.

Anyway, though, doesn't Mannatech say in its current 10-k that "Our global team of independent associates are comprised of very dedicated, hard working, high-caliber individuals"? And that "We provide each new independent associate with our policies and procedures that require our independent associates to comply with regulatory guidelines and act in a consistent and professional manner"? And that "Our legal/compliance program assists in maintaining high ethical standards among our independent associates"? Well, of course they do.

Finally, as far as I saw, in its entire lengthy 10-k (link above), Mannatech refers over and over to its 544,000 "associates and members", but never gives the individual numbers for each (if I'm wrong and somebody sees it, please correct me). If they did break it down, well, that would permit folks like us to figure many interesting things, including two quite important ones: the percentage of sales made to distributors, and distributors' average earnings. Mannatech does state in its 10-k (it must do so) the total commissions paid; for 2006, that was $175M. Say the member/associate division is 50/50 (more likely 20/80, but let's be generous) - then the average distributor makes about $750 per year in commissions.

Get rich quick, folks.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

User avatar
webhick
Illuminati Obfuscation: Black Ops Div
Posts: 3868
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:41 am

Postby webhick » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:07 pm

But if they do an expose on the industry, the delusional MLM scam victims will simply say, "Well, that's not [insert MLM company here]."

They would have to do a 42-part expose. First one investigates the industry and all the following ones investigate the individual companies.
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie

michaelwebsterlaw

20/20 Late to the Party

Postby michaelwebsterlaw » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:25 pm

I saw the show and didn't see anything new that hadn't been reported by Barron's, two years ago, http://online.barrons.com/article_print/SB111542290501327322.html

User avatar
buck09
Quatloosian Baron of the Unknown Statute
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:01 pm

Postby buck09 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:43 pm

Also - the unedited footage of Scam Asster's interview can be found on Youtube. Sorry I don't have a link, but it's easy to find if you search for "mannatech 20/20" - it's in 4 parts.

User avatar
soapboxmom
Matriarch of the Networked Soap Sales
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:00 am

Postby soapboxmom » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:26 pm

Mrs. Scammer Caster spoke at the Advantage Conferences scamference in June. Tim Darnell sure knows how to pick 'em.

Nomass, a poster at Scam.com shared this and saved me a trip to the court house. A big thanks!

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/newspubs/rel ... natech.pdf

Soapboxmom

Smartone

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Postby Smartone » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:46 pm

Have even one of you tried Mannatech? The reason there was a 20/20 article bad about mannatech is because the abc is endorsed by the drug companies. The drug companies don't want you to be healthy. They just want money, money, money. Don't you get it! My dad has been taking mannatech for 8 years now and not once got sick after he started. Seriously research what you are discriminating about before you open your mouth. If abc ran a story that was fair against mannatech like an honest debate then the drug companies wouldn't have commercials on abc anymore and they would probably go bankrupt. Abc don't care about mannatech or how fair th e drug companies seem they just want to get money. I'm tired of people talking out of there ass. You are big enough to make decisions by yourself instead of cutting down an honest christian company like mannatech that gives away mannatech products all time through mannarelief conventions, just so they can help people who have nothing live healthy lives. Though instead you want to endorse something that steals your money and uses lobbyists to convince the government to make it harder for the companies with GOD on their side to survive how sick is that. While I feel great and you are getting sick just look at your bills and see how deep in debt you are from paying those assholes off. Maybe if you want to cut down mannatech, take it first and see how your body heals itself like God intended. Drugs just stop you from feeling the pain. That don't do any good. So stop cutting down mannatech. I don't want this to have hurt your feelings, but i am sick and tired of people cutting down something they don't know a shit about! And about the lawsuit that was made just to short the stock so those assholes could buy it. Luckily they got caught this time. Many people have probably gone bankrupt because of that one-sided fake lawsuit intended on only making them money. Please just do some actual research like taking mannatech hell atleast there is no way mannatech products could kill you. Drug companies :twisted: Mannatech :D

Judge Roy Bean
Judge for the District of Quatloosia
Judge for the District of Quatloosia
Posts: 3529
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: West of the Pecos
Contact:

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:17 pm

Smartone, you have fallen for the same kind of snakeoil promotions that have plagued mankind for centuries. You're the one that needs to do some research:


AG's case hits home in small town
By DANNY ROBBINS
Star-Telegram staff writer

SPECIAL TO THE STAR-TELEGRAM/ASHLEY LANDIS
Loretta Lewis holds a portrait of her daughter, Angel Montgomery, who died of bone cancer last year. A Mannatech sales associate tried to persuade her to stop chemotherapy in favor of taking a supplement called Ambrotose, a product of Mannatech Inc. SMITHVILLE -- Even after five years, Loretta Lewis vividly recalls the day she visited the home of her daughter, Angel Montgomery, to hear a talk by Max Brache, a sales associate for Mannatech Inc.

Much of Brache's presentation was focused on Montgomery, who only months earlier had been diagnosed with a rare form of cancer.

And, in Lewis' view, much of it was frightening, making the case that her daughter could conquer her illness by stopping her chemotherapy and taking Mannatech's dietary supplements instead.

"The thing that still galls me is how you can look somebody that sick in the eye and give them that kind of hope," she said.

For Lewis and others close to Montgomery, who died in November at 31, old emotions have been stirred by the lawsuit Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott filed against Mannatech last month.

Montgomery's experience with Brache is among the incidents cited in the suit, which accuses Mannatech, a Coppell-based multilevel marketer, of allowing its supplements to be sold as cures for cancer and other diseases.

What occurred in Smithville, a town of 4,000 about 40 miles southeast of Austin, underscores many of the issues confronting Mannatech, depicted in Abbott's suit as a company that has long turned a blind eye toward the questionable activities of its associates.

When Mannatech learned of Brache's alleged conduct, it took disciplinary action that, in essence, kept him from selling for only one month.

"I would have loved for him to go through a lot more hell than that," Lewis said.

She said she contacted Mannatech about Brache and was told that he would be "harshly reprimanded."

Abbott's suit describes how the Texas Department of State Health Services was informed by Smithville police in 2002 that Brache had encouraged Montgomery to stop her chemotherapy and purchase $1,100 in Mannatech products, known as glyconutrients.

The agency, then known as the Texas Department of Health, subsequently notified Mannatech, according to the suit.

But a matter noted by two paragraphs in the lawsuit is something far more personal in Smithville, reviving memories of how a glib Australian blew into town selling supplements and locked onto a young mother of two with a daunting fight on her hands.

'You need this stuff'

Brache regularly said Montgomery wouldn't need chemotherapy if she used Mannatech's signature product, Ambrotose, according to Jason Montgomery, her ex-husband.

"[Brache] was constantly beating that into us: 'You don't need the stuff [chemotherapy]. You need this stuff, because it's going to help your cells communicate and fight off the cancer,'" he said.

Jason Montgomery said his wife never ceased her chemotherapy, although she seriously considered it.

"She was sure thinking about it," he said. "We both were, because [Brache] was pretty convincing."

When the company learned of Brache's actions, it deemed them "unacceptable" and "aberrant," but it did not remove him as an associate, according to correspondence obtained by the Star-Telegram. Instead, it placed him on six months' probation, with a one-month suspension from doing business. It also required that he receive regulatory training.

Brache, who was well-connected within Mannatech's network of associates, remained part of the company's sales process, records show.

In January 2003, he was part of a group that formed a corporation in Florida called GlycoWorx. Its purpose was "to produce, sell and distribute nutritional educational materials," according to its articles of incorporation.

Mannatech associates have long used such items as sales tools, purchasing them at corporate events or online. Some of the best-known items are cited in Abbott's suit for making illegal health claims.

Brache had a heart attack and died in March 2003.

In response to questions from the Star-Telegram regarding Brache, Mannatech issued a written statement saying the company couldn't comment on pending litigation. The statement also noted that the company has taken steps to police sales practices after Abbott's suit was filed.

Coming more than five years after Smithville police reported Brache to state health officials, the attorney general's suit has some in town wondering why it took so long for something to be done.

The lawsuit "should have happened a long time ago," Smithville Police Chief Rudy Supak said.

A mystery man

Brache remains something of a mysterious figure in Smithville, where he lived off and on in 2001 and 2002 while doing carpentry work for Yerger Hill III, an attorney and chairman of the board of First State Bank.

Although Brache was a journeyman carpenter driving a 20-year-old pickup truck, he was able to persuade 50 to 100 people in the area to purchase Mannatech products, Hill said.

"He could sell," said Hill, who bought some of the products himself. "There's no doubt about it. He had the ability to sell."

While Brache was in Smithville, he made several trips to Mannatech's corporate headquarters, Hill said. He also was in frequent phone contact with a husband and wife who have built one of the company's most lucrative sales organizations, or "downlines," he said.

Hill said he knew little else about Brache other than that he was originally from Australia and previously worked as a carpenter for a friend of Hill's in Kaufman.

Montgomery's dealings with Brache began not long after she was diagnosed with Ewing's sarcoma, a form of bone cancer that most often strikes males between the ages of 10 and 20. At the time, she was undergoing a grueling regimen of chemotherapy in which a device pumped the drugs into her body around the clock.

"It was odd that this happened right when we found out she had cancer," Jason Montgomery said. "We were like, 'Maybe it's a godsend.' But it definitely wasn't."

The situation concerned Lewis enough that she contacted Smithville police, for whom she used to work as a dispatcher.

"I didn't know what else to do," she said. "All I could think of was, 'This man is taking advantage of people who are wanting a miracle.'"

In a report summarizing an interview with Angel Montgomery in January 2002, Supak wrote: "[Brache] told her that he had a product that could keep [her] from dying. ... He told her that he could see people's auras, and he could tell that if she did not take his product, she would die."

Mannatech's response

After the Texas Department of Health notified Mannatech of the complaint in June 2002, the company responded with a letter from Terry Persinger, its president and chief operating officer.

In the letter, Persinger said Mannatech was already aware of "these unacceptable practices by Mr. Brache." He also outlined the disciplinary measures that had been taken.

"We believe that the company has an effective mechanism in place to address aberrant conduct such as that indicated by this incident and that the compliance process was utilized swiftly and appropriately to modify the acts of this one individual," he wrote.

Lewis said Brache stayed away from her daughter after the police became involved, but she often wondered what, if anything, was being done by the company or authorities.

"We knew he wasn't just [selling] here," she said. "It used to make us think: How many other people did he approach? And how many actually bought into what he said and suffered because of it?"

Mannatech's legal woes

Texas attorney general's lawsuit

Mannatech is accused of deceptive trade practices and violations of the Texas Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act in a lawsuit filed July 5 by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott. The suit contends that Mannatech has engaged in a "deceptive scheme for monetary gain" by enabling its sales associates to sell its dietary supplements as cures for numerous diseases and conditions, including cancer and Down syndrome. The suit also says that the company has used two nonprofit organizations to promote its products. Defendants include Sam Caster, Mannatech's chairman and chief executive, and H. Reginald McDaniel, a physician who has been heavily involved in the company.

Class-action lawsuit

The basis of the class-action lawsuit is that shareholders were deceived by Mannatech when they purchased its stock. The action was prompted by a 40 percent drop in the company's stock price after an article about its sales and marketing tactics appeared in Barron's in 2005. The plaintiffs have filled their pleadings with statements from unnamed former company employees, some of whom allege that the company has been lax in dealing with excessive claims by certain company officials and high-level associates. An amended complaint was filed July 12 to include Abbott's lawsuit.

Shareholder derivative lawsuits

Four shareholder derivative suits have been filed against Mannatech. Most of the allegations are similar to those in the class-action suit.

drobbins@star-telegram.com
DANNY ROBBINS, 817-390-7248
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
The world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy.
The Devil Makes Three

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Re: Do you even know what you are talking about?

Postby wserra » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:39 pm

Smartone wrote:Have even one of you tried Mannatech? The reason there was a 20/20 article bad about mannatech is because the abc is endorsed by the drug companies.


Have you tried Sterno? I know people tell you about things like methanol poisoning, but they're all paid by the liquor companies. Sterno - Breakfast of Champions!

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

My dad has been taking mannatech for 8 years now and not once got sick after he started.


My grandfather smoked two packs a day, lived until his late eighties, and ran marathons into his seventies.

Go buy Marlboros by the case.

an honest christian company like mannatech


There is a special place reserved in that corner of Hell closest to the boiler room for "an honest christian company like mannatech".

I feel great


Maybe you do. But the stuff has obviously affected your brain.

i am sick and tired of people cutting down something they don't know a sh*t about!


Don't forget that Sterno.

And about the lawsuit that was made just to short the stock so those assholes could buy it.


The Texas Attorney General is shorting Mannatech? Who knew? (You certainly don't.)
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

Stinky McGurk

Postby Stinky McGurk » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:39 pm

and the best one of all..

hell at least there is no way mannatech products could kill you. Drug companies :twisted: Mannatech :D


Somehow, the logic of that statement escapes me.Image

User avatar
buck09
Quatloosian Baron of the Unknown Statute
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:01 pm

Postby buck09 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:11 pm

Brache had a heart attack and died in March 2003.


Too bad the glyconutrients couldn't get his heart cells to communicate well enough to keep him alive.

User avatar
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:11 pm

Postby Demosthenes » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:44 am

Mannatech Terminates Sales Associate Convicted of Tax Evasion


Posted : Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:15:58 GMT
Author : Mannatech, Inc.
Category : PressRelease

COPPELL, Texas, Aug. 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Mannatech, Inc. announced today the termination of Raymond Gebauer, a top independent sales Associate, following his recent conviction for tax evasion charges.
"Mr. Gebauer's conviction places him in violation of his Associate agreement with Mannatech," said Terry Persinger, President and COO of Mannatech. "We expect, and the Company's policies require, all Mannatech Associates to comply with applicable laws, including tax laws."
Mr. Gebauer had been a Mannatech independent sales Associate since 1994.

About Mannatech

Mannatech, Incorporated is a global wellness solutions provider of innovative, high-quality, proprietary nutritional supplements, topical and skin care products, and weight management products sold through independent Associates and Members located in the United States and the international markets of Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, Japan, New Zealand, the Republic of Korea, Taiwan, Denmark, and Germany.
Please Note: This release contains "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended, and the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements generally can be identified by use of phrases or terminology such as "intend" or other similar words or the negative of such terminology. Similarly, descriptions of Mannatech's objectives, strategies, plans, goals or targets contained herein are also considered forward-looking statements. Mannatech believes this release should be read in conjunction with all of its filings with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission and cautions its readers that these forward-looking statements are subject to certain events, risks, uncertainties, and other factors. Some of these factors include, among others, Mannatech's inability to attract and retain associates and members, increases in competition, litigation, regulatory changes, and its planned growth into new international markets. Although Mannatech believes that the expectations, statements, and assumptions reflected in these forward-looking statements are reasonable, it cautions readers to always consider all of the risk factors and any other cautionary statements carefully in evaluating each forward-looking statement in this release, as well as those set forth in its latest Annual Report on Form 10-K and Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q, and other filings filed with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, including its current reports on Form 8-K. All of the forward-looking statements contained herein speak only as of the date of this release.
Contact Information:
Gary Spinell, Vice President
Investor Relations
972-471-6512
ir@mannatech.com
Corporate website: http://www.mannatech.com/
Demo.

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Postby wserra » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:45 am

Demosthenes wrote:Mannatech Terminates Sales Associate Convicted of Tax Evasion


This only happens when (1) something occurs that they can't ignore, and (b) they're under investigation anyway and can't afford any more bad press.

This guy Gebauer has for years been doing exactly what the Texas AG charges: as a senior Mannatech distributor, making ridiculous claims while Mannatech pretends not to notice. He wrote a "book" called "How to Cure and Prevent Any Disease", vigorously promotes it and has for years. See this article from a year ago. Just the first two (of many) claims he makes:
* Reduce pain by 50-100% in 60 seconds, including Carpel Tunnel Syndrome

* Reduce breast cancer by 1900% by simply changing the timing of one activity
Ya think? What do you think it means to reduce something by "1900%"? Not only won't you get breast cancer, but the protection extends to eighteen of your friends and family members? But, so long as he recruits new suckers for Mannatech, they simply look the other way.

Oh, BTW, on the TP side, check out Gebauer's home page.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

Stinky McGurk

Postby Stinky McGurk » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:55 pm

Ray boy seems a tad miffed about being held in prison while awaiting sentencing.

Heck,even OJ got bail while waiting to be sentenced. (That's Ray's beef, according to his website).

Don't tax evaders get bail, btw?

Or are they afraid Gebauer might skip the country? :?:

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Postby wserra » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:11 pm

Stinky McGurk wrote:Heck,even OJ got bail while waiting to be sentenced. (That's Ray's beef, according to his website).


OJ was never "waiting to be sentenced", since he was acquitted.

Don't tax evaders get bail, btw?


Sure. Gebauer was out on bail while awaiting trial. Once convicted, though, one is no longer presumed to be innocent.

Or are they afraid Gebauer might skip the country? :?:


I would be.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

Stinky McGurk

Postby Stinky McGurk » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:59 pm

Heck,even OJ got bail while waiting to be sentenced. (That's Ray's beef, according to his website).

OJ was never "waiting to be sentenced", since he was acquitted.


Good point!

Don't tax evaders get bail, btw?

Sure. Gebauer was out on bail while awaiting trial. Once convicted, though, one is no longer presumed to be innocent.


Another good point! Suppose that's why you're a lawyer.

Okay, then.

What about Gebauer's contention that... "Ray Gebauer was hauled off to jail on a kangaroo conviction over a law that does not exist."

Anything to that?

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Postby wserra » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:12 pm

Stinky McGurk wrote:What about Gebauer's contention that... "Ray Gebauer was hauled off to jail on a kangaroo conviction over a law that does not exist."

Anything to that?


Of course not.

26 USC 7201 wrote:Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

Stinky McGurk

Postby Stinky McGurk » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:29 am

Didn't think so. :wink:

I raised this issue of Ray Gebauer and his tax problems on another forum.

Somebody pointed out that the US federal income tax system is based on "voluntary compliance."

If so, has anyone ever taken on the IRS and won?

Judge Roy Bean
Judge for the District of Quatloosia
Judge for the District of Quatloosia
Posts: 3529
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: West of the Pecos
Contact:

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:56 pm

Stinky McGurk wrote:Didn't think so. :wink:

I raised this issue of Ray Gebauer and his tax problems on another forum.

Somebody pointed out that the US federal income tax system is based on "voluntary compliance."

If so, has anyone ever taken on the IRS and won?


That's like asking: "Does it rain in Death Valley?" It does, but not often enough that you'd stay around long.

Don't get hung up on "voluntary compliance." IMHO, what that means is the system relies on voluntary compliance. If enough people thought as the TP crowd does, the IRS wouldn't be able to recruit, hire and train the masses of people required to effectively enforce the law. Hence, in one way, they are actually dependent on people voluntarily complying. As odd as it sounds, most people make a serious attempt at conforming with the law when it comes to filing tax returns.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean
The world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy.
The Devil Makes Three


Return to “MLM Scams Forum (as if any of them aren't)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest