Quatloos!

And yet I have known those who are able to operate in the U.S. without a social security number; they have motor vehicles, they own land without any number of any kind, they transact self-employed businesses, and when they get paid they go to the payee's bank. I'm surprised that this has not raised enough red flags with the agencies. Many Amish and like religious groups find ways around numbering requirements; they are willing to pay their full share of taxes and other obligations, but for some reason do not want to be assigned a number.

It's time the banks get tough with those cashing payee's checks of their customers. It should be possible to make a record of every such transaction; I have known those seeking to avoid taxes by cashing checks in this way; of course it is a bearer instrument and legally the banks must honor it. I know a case where a person trying to cash the check had to go to court to get the bank to honor it; just i.d. the person, make sure the relevant agencies get a copy of the transaction, the probable self-employment connected to the monies, and the filing requirements. One paytriot "pastor" uses his passport to cash checks, he thinks that it gives him more rights than a drivers license.


"However, you may not be aware that the U.S. government has the power to revoke your U.S. passport for many reasons.

"Just open your U.S. passport and turn to the fifth page. There, you'll see a highly revealing statement... U.S. GOVERNMENT PROPERTY.

"Your passport is the property of the United States, and you must surrender it to the government upon demand." (The Sovereign Investor http://sovereign-investor.com/2011/08/0 ... ng-to-you/ )

A part-time coin dealer I know tried to cash a $15K check at the payee's bank recently to avoid what he regards as fear that were he to run the check through his account he would be liable for all relevant taxes. But cashing a big check like that raised so many flags, he is regretting it.

Number Six wrote:And yet I have known those who are able to operate in the U.S. without a social security number; they have motor vehicles, they own land without any number of any kind, they transact self-employed businesses, and when they get paid they go to the payee's bank.

I'm not sure the state you're alluding to but in some circumstances in order to sell a property (with several exclusions) the amount(s) involved will have to be reported (1099-S). I know of no title company or closing officer that would conduct the closing in such situations if the seller did not supply a SSN or TIN for reporting purposes.

Number Six wrote: I'm surprised that this has not raised enough red flags with the agencies. Many Amish and like religious groups find ways around numbering requirements; they are willing to pay their full share of taxes and other obligations, but for some reason do not want to be assigned a number.

It doesn't because the number of cases and the amounts involved are typically miniscule in comparison to scammers who file false returns.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

Number Six wrote:And yet I have known those who are able to operate in the U.S. without a social security number; they have motor vehicles, they own land without any number of any kind, they transact self-employed businesses, and when they get paid they go to the payee's bank.

I'm not sure the state you're alluding to but in some circumstances in order to sell a property (with several exclusions) the amount(s) involved will have to be reported (1099-S). I know of no title company or closing officer that would conduct the closing in such situations if the seller did not supply a SSN or TIN for reporting purposes.

Number Six wrote: I'm surprised that this has not raised enough red flags with the agencies. Many Amish and like religious groups find ways around numbering requirements; they are willing to pay their full share of taxes and other obligations, but for some reason do not want to be assigned a number.

It doesn't because the number of cases and the amounts involved are typically miniscule in comparison to scammers who file false returns.

The state is Vermont; the non-filers I knew put their properties in their kids names in lieu of payment for work.

In one transaction many years ago I was strong-armed into putting up money for some land on the end of a class four road being bought from a notorious criminal who's antics would put the crooks in a grade B movie to shame. The people who I bought it from never used an SS number in buying or finally turning the deed to the land over to me and they made a substantial profit. Soon thereafter these paytriot cheapskates ran a goat milk operation on land owned by a couple of Harvard profs, who I suppose were impressed by the aesthetics of a "Swiss family Robinson" using their land that they tolerated it quite a while.

I haven't paid income taxes since 2007.

That is no big deal. I have NEVER paid Income Taxes in Canada. Of course, I have only been in Canada 3 or 4 times on vacation during the last 20 years but I have NEVER paid any!

I have managed to avoid paying taxes in over 99% of the countries on Earth! My score with respect to other worlds is even better. Victory!

grixit wrote:I have managed to avoid paying taxes in over 99% of the countries on Earth! My score with respect to other worlds is even better. Victory!

"I didn't pay my taxes on Planet Merrill"

freedavep wrote:..... I was reminded recently of another one of these crazy kooks who say Income Tax is "Voluntary" his name is George Gordon and has the nerve to teach this stuff through his "Law School"........and ON THE AIR......PUBLICLY no less !!!....

George K. Gordon, the founder and head of this fake law school, died at age 75 on Aug. 30, 2014.

freedavep wrote:I was reminded recently of another one of these crazy kooks who say Income Tax is "Voluntary" his name is George Gordon and has the nerve to teach this stuff through his "Law School"........and ON THE AIR......PUBLICLY no less !!! He even goes further by telling people to avoid earning "income" altogether. and just deal in "property". He uses a case called "Deifendorff vs. Gallet" to prove his point that "property" (not real estate) has never been assesed or taxed in the United States.

In Diefendorf v. Gallet, 51 Idaho 619, 10 P.2d 307 (1932), the Idaho Supreme Court held that the state legislature had the power to impose an income tax under the Idaho constitution, and that the constitutional limitations on taxes on property (such as the requirement that taxes be uniform) did not apply to taxes on income, which could be imposed at graduated rates.

Not sure how Mr. Gordon got from there to the conclusion that "property has never been assessed for taxed in the United States," and, now that he's dead, I'll guess we'll never know.

I didn't realize that Wes had already cited and described the Diefendorf case three years ago, so my last post was somewhat redundant.

[Thread moved to Canada sub-forum at Burnaby's request.]

Just a little housekeeping. I have some info on Naudi I plan to post and found (I'd forgotten) that there was already a discussion about him that I'd missed when I made a list of Canadian files to transfer to this sub-forum when we split Canada into a separate catagory a year or two ago.