TP Offers Frivs In Defense Of His Corporation

Dezcad
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Re: TP Offers Frivs In Defense Of His Corporation

Post by Dezcad »

Gregg wrote:Its a fundamental right. Would you have a mentally handicapped person required to appear as a defendant in a small claims case pro se? Easy money, just sue the crazy people and then garnish their benefits, they might not even notice! How about corporations, who for the most part cannot appear without an attorney. Sure, as someone pointed out, an officer of a corporation can appear ( I didn't know that) in some situations, but what if the company being sued is a Fortune 500 Company, is Jeffrey Immelt free to defend that $500 refund case in Washington County Small Claims Court? You can waive your right to representation, but you can't waive my right to anything. Setting up a court as such would be pointless, if both parties have to agree, and one doesn't, well, it goes to another court, but if both parties agree to not have attorneys, they can do that now, in any court, if they are not corporations or fictitious entities that cannot appear pro se.

As to your instructor telling you that, I'm astonished that someone who doesn't know better is allowed to teach at that level. A casual observer might be fooled so, but think a minute, just the examples I give here, does that make any sense?

It may not be cost effective to hire an attorney, but you always have the right to one, civil or criminal. In civil cases you don't get a public defender.
Do you have any support in case law or otherwise that there is a general right to counsel in civil matters?

As far as your example about a mentally handicapped person, federal courts (see FRCP 17(c)(2)), must appoint a guardiam ad litem (or other representative) to protect an incompetent person who is unrepresented.

Even in the situation of an incompetent party being sued in Federal court, there is no right to counsel - the court appoints a guardian.

Some states provide right to counsel in specific instances (child abuse, neglect, parental termination etc.) but the right to counsel AFAIK has never been declared a fundamental right. For review of state statues, see this article.
Dezcad
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Re: TP Offers Frivs In Defense Of His Corporation

Post by Dezcad »

In addition to Washington cited above, the following states do not allow an attorney in small claims, except on attorney's own behalf:

Michigan Section 600.8408:
(1) An attorney at law, except on the attorney's own behalf, a collection agency or agent or employee of a collection agency, or a person other than the plaintiff and defendant, except as is otherwise provided in this chapter, shall not take part in the filing, prosecution, or defense of litigation in the small claims division.
Nebraska:
An individual who is a party to a small claims action must represent himself or herself. A partnership can be represented by a partner or an employee. A corporation may be represented by an officer or employee of the corporation. A union, association, or other organization may be represented by a member or an employee. You may not be represented by a lawyer in small claims court.

California:
Small claims court is a special court where you can resolve disputes quickly and inexpensively.
The rules are simple
The hearing is informal
You are not allowed to have a lawyer
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noblepa
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Re: TP Offers Frivs In Defense Of His Corporation

Post by noblepa »

Dezcad wrote:In addition to Washington cited above, the following states do not allow an attorney in small claims, except on attorney's own behalf:

Michigan Section 600.8408:
(1) An attorney at law, except on the attorney's own behalf, a collection agency or agent or employee of a collection agency, or a person other than the plaintiff and defendant, except as is otherwise provided in this chapter, shall not take part in the filing, prosecution, or defense of litigation in the small claims division.
Nebraska:
An individual who is a party to a small claims action must represent himself or herself. A partnership can be represented by a partner or an employee. A corporation may be represented by an officer or employee of the corporation. A union, association, or other organization may be represented by a member or an employee. You may not be represented by a lawyer in small claims court.

California:
Small claims court is a special court where you can resolve disputes quickly and inexpensively.
The rules are simple
The hearing is informal
You are not allowed to have a lawyer

So, I wasn't completely wrong, after all. I just had the wrong state.

Perhaps my instructor all those years ago was from California.

But, I was definitely wrong about Ohio. Lawyers are permitted but not required. I would guess that it wouldn't take too many hours for a lawyer's fees to exceed any judgement one might obtain. In Ohio, the limit for small claims court is $3,000. That's less than eight hours for a lot of lawyers. So, I don't imagine that too many people hire a lawyer to represent them in small claims. They may spend an hour with a lawyer, going over their options, what to expect, how to act, what to ask for, etc., but probably not much more than that.
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Re: TP Offers Frivs In Defense Of His Corporation

Post by Famspear »

noblepa wrote:So, I wasn't completely wrong, after all. I just had the wrong state.

Perhaps my instructor all those years ago was from California.

But, I was definitely wrong about Ohio....
You may or may not have been wrong. The Ohio law I cited is the current law. The Ohio law may or may not have been the same back then.
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