Liberty Dollar, Part 3

[Arthur Rubin]

OK, so it would be a trademark law violation to counterfit the Liberty Dollar. It doesn't mean that a third-party would believe it wasn't done, especially when the trademark owner's assets have be seized, and there's no such thing as criminal trademark violations.

[notorial dissent]

Whatever...you're just trying your best to smear someone based on nothing as usual. You have no evidence to support a single thing you're saying. As I said before if what you say is true the government would have certainly made that claim. They haven't so you're just being a smear merchant.
Stevie, I’m not trying to “smear” anyone as you put it. I’m not the one who filed the money laundering and counterfeit charges either, the FBI did, after investigating what was going on at von Nutjob’s funny farm, this is all public knowledge and record now. I am merely point out the obvious and you don’t seem to like it. I don’t know how much plainer I can make it, the gov’t filed money laundering and counterfeit charges against them. I am also willing to bet that by the time they are done they will include tax evasion and a few others as well. The gov’t has yet to release all the evidence they have, which means they are still gathering for the final indictment(s), and I fully expect there will be a superceding indictment at some point down the road. I repeat Stevie, I am not making the claim, the Federal criminal indictment is.

What a frigging retard. People pay a premium all the time for stuff over and above its smelt value or its piece value. You just show how oblivious you are to reality. No one purchased these for their silver resale value. They purchased them so that their dollars would retain value not necessarily equal to the true value of silver. In fact its completely obvious the notes were denominated higher than the spot silver price. It was clearly stated so. Yet, you continue to chime in with your ridiculous, totally retarded, accusation that people were duped in to buying these for over the spot silver price. Only a total moron would make such a statement knowing that the literature clearly and unambiguously states the exact opposite.
Yes, people pay a premium for any precious metal purchase, I never said they didn’t, what I did say is that they don’t pay a “ridiculous” premium for it, and quite frankly what von Nuthouse was charging, 80% was/is ridiculous. When I used to buy Eagles, I paid the value of the silver at the time, the face value of the coin, and about a 10% premium for the coin. When I got done, I knew I had a certified and verified 1oz of real silver, and a coin that would have some value down the road. As it stands right now the price of silver would have to drop to almost nothing before I would lose anything on them, and as they are all worth more than the silver in them I am still far ahead. Again a specious argument Stevie, if they wanted their dollars to retain value, they could have bought Eagles, or any other 1 oz silver coin, and there are a lot of them, and paid 60-70% less for them. Instead, they bought slugs that were automatically worth less than what they had put into them. And again, Stevie, you are attributing context to what I said that I didn’t say. I’m sorry if this confuses you, but paying twice the price for something that is claimed to be inflation proof is fraud, in the first place the inflation is built into it by the very price, and there is nothing that is or will be inflation proof. Whatever amount of silver they have or get, the ultimate value is going to be based on what the active market is willing to pay for it at a given time, either more or less than what was originally paid for it. And, as to your last comment, the literature states nothing of the kind, it is as duplicitous as the rest of the scheme.


Whatever....silver doesn't have a dollar amount written on it. Why don't people buy nickle and copper instead of using coined money. Jesus you truly are a piece of work.
No it doesn’t. It has the weight and proof information, which is how “precious” metals are valued. Some people do buy nickle and copper, they have actually picked up value over the last few years to the point that the metal is now worth more than the denomination of the coins they were originally made in to. In fact all our coins are now either coupro-nickel or zinc based, and with the rise in zinc prices, that too may have to change. At this point in time, pocket change has ceased to be anything more than a method of accounting, and to the average person what they are made of really doesn’t matter. To answer the rest of your question, for the same reason that we don’t walk around with pockets full of gold and silver, it weighs too much, the value fluctuates too widely, it is incredibly inconvenient. There is nothing I hate worse than walking around with a pocket full of quarters unless it is a pocket full of pennies.

You're either far to dense to get it or you are on a smear campaign based on nothing but your feelings.
Temper temper Stevie, you’ll blow a gasket. Again, I’m not trying to smear anyone, I am merely repeating what the DOJ has already said, and admittedly adding my own interpretations in some places, which I identify as my own.

Don't forget the dollar has lost over 90% of its value...it's worth virtually nothing if the coins are melted down and the notes are backed by nothing but good faith, which is obviously worth little since they have lost so much purchase value.
While you sit there and spew your garbage there is no doubt a currency backed by something will always beat the U.S. dollar over time. The U.S. dollar does nothing but lose value overtime.
Stevie, the dollar has been “losing” its value since the first one was ever printed. This is not some new phenomenon. It is not a new phenomenon, nad is applicable to all currencies. The point is not that the dollar is losing value, which is subjective at best, the point is that it takes less time to earn that dollar, and that the cost of living has gone down from the hallowed days of old. You are looking at only one statistic, and not comparing it to all the others at the same time. The other factor that you refuse to acknowledge is that even during the period when we had a precious metal based currency that the dollar still lost value, unless you are claiming the series of recessions and depressions the country went through in the 1800's didn’t happen. Please, by all means, point out a currency that is backed by precious metal that does any differently than the dollar.


No one has been ripped off, no one was scammed, no one has been charged or convicted with anything. Everyone made the choice to purchase these notes. They only people who got ripped off were those who were unlucky enough to hold certificates for assets that the government seized, the government ripped them off not NorFed. In fact if you were lucky enough to own the minted coins from several years ago, you would have made a fortune on ebay reselling them for double or more their face value.

You claim people having these things are idiots and clueless because their smelted value isn't equal to their face value. Exactly how much do you get when you smelt a coined U.S. dollar? You'll avoid that conversation and spew more garbage about how the government backs them....so what? FRN's continually lose value and are wanted less and less by foreign nations hence their devaluation.
Sorry, Stevie, have to really disagree with you here, charging someone a near 100% markup on a precious metal purchase is ripping them off, particularly when a certified amount of silver can be had for considerably less. As to charged, forgetting the counterfeiting and money laundering charges aren’t you? Selling something to someone and giving them the impression they are getting something they aren’t is fraud Steve, pure and simple. There was never any proof that the silver actually existed, it was sold for twice the going price, the implication was that it could be used as “currency”, and that it was inflation proof. So far none of the above have proven true, so I guess you could come back and call that fraud as well. Yes, the people who left their funds with von Nuthouse are in a bad position, there is however, no proof that there was sufficient silver there to have covered the receipts as well as orders, so that is still an open question. I am also not denying that they currently have some collectors value, whether that lasts remains to be seen. I suspect that the only ones who really came out ahead are the ones who sold them while the selling was good. Time will tell. Aside from the fact that it is illegal to smelt down US coins, there is no point. They contain 1 oz of .999 fine silver, so they are worth the going price of silver, plus whatever the coin itself is worth. At this moment, I can find dealers who will pay me spot or near spot for them, but since they are worth more numismatically it isn’t an issue. The only thing a Libby has going for it is curiosity value right now, and since there is no guarantee of fineness, the original quote you were given for silver scrap is about right. If you can find any evidence of reluctance to accept FRN’s or of devaluation, please produce same. You seem to conveniently ignore the reference to the dollar being up against the Euro, so it doesn’t sound like it has been devalued much if at all.

If a company were able to issue currency and coins backed by a precious metal and used widely enough I would gladly accept them over U.S. money. I would be an idiot not to considering how pathetic our government is run and how much debt they've accumulated making U.S. dollars a poor choice.
I’m sure you would Stevie and you are more than welcome to. I on the other hand, am not, nor do I see the point! Further political rant ignored for pointlessness.

I suppose that it's not any more illegal to "counterfit" the Libbys, but using an alloy with the same density as silver, and silver plating, than it was to create them in the first place. I suppose there could be a trademarked symbol on it somewhere, but it doesn't seem likely that von Nuthouse would have registered the trademark, nor does he have any real money to pay for prosecution of trademark infringement, so it would seem reasonably safe.
My suspicion would be that you could be charged with copyright infringement, since they should have at the very least common law copyright of their work/product. I’m not sure if trademark infringement would apply unless the person doing it were to claim they were NORFED or whatever they are calling themselves these days, and as you say, they would have to have filed a trademark registration to begin with. The person selling the counterfeit Libbys could probably be charged with fraud at the very least, since they wouldn’t be real Libbys and wouldn’t be what they purport to be, and I am not sure that this wouldn’t come under the counterfeiting statutes as well since they include counterfeiting of non US coins as well, and since the Libbys have also been filed against, I would suspect the counterfeit ones would qualify as well. I think it would be an awful lot of work for little or no return. The die costs alone would preclude much profit, and then finding someone to actually mint them would add to the cost, and I would bet they would cost more to counterfeit than you could sell them for. Interesting idea though.

[fortinbras]

Salon.com has article about Bernard von NotHaus in its Nov. 18th issue ("The High Priest of the Hawaiian Mint"). Von NotHaus is now the high priest of the Honolulu Free Marijuana Church (I am willing to bet, however, that he's not handing out the mj "free"). The article notes that, primarily because of the FBI raid on NORFED/LD, the value of his funny money has actually increased, as a collector's item not as currency on such places as eBay.

A dozen years ago, the Pacific Island News carried an article about his "Royal Hawaiian Mint" ("Bringing the next generation on board can be rewarding", June 17, 1996), in which Bernard von NotHaus said that his two sons (then teenagers) had been working in his mint for years (I would assume not in a way that violated child labor laws) and he and they all expected that they'd take over the business eventually. It is not clear if they did take over the mint but von NotHaus is supposedly still supplying the new management of the NORFED/LD organization with its stock-in-trade.

As regards his "private currency", although Ron Paul supposedly favored legitimizing such a thing, the US Supreme Court, in Veazie Bank v. Fenno (1869) 8 Wall. (75 US) 533, 19 L.Ed 482, upheld federal statutes that effectively prevented (by heavy taxation) state banks from issuing their own currency on the grounds that this prohibition was a legitimate exercise of the power granted by the Constitution exclusively to Congress to "coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin", inasmuch as this competing form of currency was interfering with the Congressional ability to regulate the value of US currency. I might add that the 1933 Gold Clause Resolution (so-called "HJR 192") was similarly upheld because the ubiquity of gold clauses in private contracts was forcing an artificially lopsided exchange rate between forms of US currency.

Considering that the Constitution not only says that Congress can coin money but also that it can regulate its value and the value of foreign money, it necessarily follows that Congress is not restricted to specie coins, whose value is intrinsic in the precious metal content. In other words, Congress is empowered to issue paper money. If the Congress were restricted to precious metal coins then the value of the coins, including the value of foreign money relative to the US coins, would be entirely dictated by the market value of the metal, and Congress would be helpless to "regulate the value thereof". So it must follow that Congress is particularly empowered to issue money which is not dependent on the intrinsic value of its ingredients.

There is another distinct possibility about NORFED/LD .... that it is involved in money laundering. This may seem odd, but the organization is, essentially, operating as a "warehouse bank" - effectively a domestic offshore bank. People send their real money (US currency) to NORFED and get receipts (the NORFED paper money, which is actually labelled "warehouse receipt") or a token (the LD shekel) which can be later returned to NORFED as a chit to receive their original US currency (minus some viggorish for storage & handling, which is viewed as an acceptable cost of keeping one's assets hidden from ex-wives and tax collectors). No currency transaction reports to the IRS, it's as secret as a Swiss bank. There have been plenty of convictions for money laundering (or evading the currency transaction laws, if there's a difference) for racketeers who used US currency to buy enormous sums in travelers checks, money orders and the like, not reported to the IRS, and which were readily reconvertible to US currency. There's no practical difference between buying travelers checks or NORFED funny money as a means of concealing currency transaction (except the travelers checks will more surely be collectible years from now).

People might learn from the Naitonal Barter Assn's case. {National Commodity & Barter Assn v. US (D.Colo 1993) 843 F.Supp 655, 73 AFTR2d 1388, 93-2 USTC ¶ 50609, aff'd (10th Cir Nov. 29, 1994) 42 F2d 1406(table), 74 AFTR2d 7385 cert. denied 516 US 807; and many related cases.} The Association also, after some years of facilitating cashless bartering, allowed one of its managers to set up a very obvious warehouse bank. He kept all the accounting very carefully secreted. Clients sent US currency in and he kept it for them without any reports to the IRS or creditors or anyone else. Clients would occasionally send instructions for him to pay certain bills for them by his taking some of their money, buying a money order or postal order, and sending it to the creditor without any mention of the warehouse bank. Clients could also withdraw their currency. He charged a fee for each transaction, the price of secrecy. It worked for years and then this manager very inconsiderately died. He had kept the accounting so secret that nobody, including people in the Barter Assn, could find it. He had put the cash in a safety deposit box in the local bank in his own name. Inasmuch as the box was in his name and there was no documentation that he owed this money to anyone else, his family stood to inherit it -- with the IRS keeping a close watch. Customers of the warehouse bank he had been running weren't aware that he had died and some of them kept sending letters to his post office box -- and the IRS picked up that mail and showed an unwelcome interest in them. In the end, the customers not only lost their deposits, many of them had a really fun time playing with the IRS.

[notorial dissent]

OK, I am going to go out on a limb here and state the obvious.

The so called “Trademark License” listed on the libertydollar.org website is as much malarkey as the rest of the concept. The biggest flaw is that they don’t seem to know the difference between copyright and trademark.

In the first place, I do not believe that Liberty Services can legally be a non-profit, I do not see any way shape or form that they could meet even the loosest reading of any of the non-profit statutes, let alone the IRS rules. Secondly, unless things have changed dramatically, I do not believe that “Liberty Dollar”, “Liberty Head”, or the “paper certificates” can in any way shape or form be “trademarked” since such things do not meet the requirements for trademark in part or whole. The appearance of the slugs, and the certificates should be copyrightable, but not trademarkable. Based on article 8, I do not believe that it would even be enforceable due to the flaws in the contract.

To my eye it looks badly cobbled together by someone who didn’t have a clue about what they were doing, and very amateurish if intended to be an enforceable legal document.

[fortinbras]

Yes, they're certainly copyrightable -- even US postage stamps are copyrighted. And the NORFED paper money is copyrightable. Even the NORFED shekels, since they involve a modicum of originality. But that calls to mind an important fact about the original NORFED shekels (not the recent Ron Paul version); NORFED itself said that its silver shekel used the Walking Liberty image that had appeared on US silver dollars circa 1901. The reproduced image from a US coin, plus NORFED's addition of "USA" and a dollar amount on the coin probably brings their original shekel within the criteria of counterfeiting, as distinguished from the other offense of churning out an unauthorized form of currency.

[LDE]

When does NotHaus take the next obvious step and issue the Zowie Dollar—backed by Maui gold?

Seriously, SteveSy, in addition to the other obvious frauds pointed out by posters on this thread, there's another party in the transaction, which I keep bringing up and you keep ignoring. The biggest fraud in this "private currency" scam is against the merchant.

Let's review: Merchants who have agreed in advance to accept the Libby are encouraged to do so at par for the retail price of goods in dollars. Let's go back to the early days of the LD, when it really was accepted by a (very small) list of merchants. If I sell a lawnmower for $200, I'm supposed to accept 20 one-ounce silver pieces in place of two Ben Franklins (or, more likely, the equivalent on a Visa card, which will cost me a couple percent in processing fees to recover).

Not only does the pricing in dollars suggest such an exchange rate; Von NotHaus's own propaganda (as quoted on another thread) explicitly does so. And, when I researched this, just before the first LD revaluation, the merchant I spoke to (an Austin auto-repair shop, whose parts supplier also accepted Libbies) was accepting LD1 = US$1.

As a merchant, I'm supposed to accept the Libby as a "private currency" because it's a "store of value" that's more "stable" than the "steadily depreciating" USD. Yes, I'm taking a hit on the silver content but, as the dollar is inevitably "destroyed, like all fiat currencies," the silver will hold its value and I'll ultimately profit.

Then, as silver climbs toward $9, far from maintaining a "store of value," Von NotHaus changes the value of his "dollar," much like some inflation-riddled Latin American country, so that one ounce of silver is now called a $20 coin. The merchant:

• must now maintain two price schedules, one in USD and one in LD
• is stuck with old "currency" that cannot be exchanged for the new value without expensive reminting
• must train employees on the difference between the very similar looking old coin and the new one

I'm really foolish if I now sell the same lawnmower for 10 ounces of silver just because it has a face value of LD200. But the customer thinks it should be worth $200 US because that's what he's been told by Von NotHaus, and he paid $180 for the coins thinking it's a discount 'cause he's a "dealer."

Then silver goes up to around $18 and Von NotHaus really shoots the moon, declaring that now a one-ounce coin is a $50 piece. Multiply all the problems I bulleted above. Then silver plummets again but the $50 Libby is not recalled and replaced with a $10 one. In this scheme, revaluation only proceeds in one direction: to cheapen the value of the nominal "dollar" against silver.

It's obvious that the promise to maintain a stable private currency, based on precious metal and thus worth holding instead of the U.S. paper dollar, was a lie on all counts. There was no "store of value"; like some Central American monetary unit, the Libby's price varies with the USD but is a good deal weaker and subject to frequent devaluation (but never an upward revaluation) vis-à-vis both silver and goods. (Let's not even get into the problems related to the fact that there are both gold and silver Libbies and the possibility of arbitraging between them.)

[notorial dissent]

Damn those pesky little facts, and reality creeping in, ruins a perfectly good fantasy every time.

[Demosthenes]

From: Liberty Dollar [mailto:truth@libertydollar.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:20 PM
Subject: Move Down to $20 Base is Coming

Move Down to $20 Base is Coming
Table of Contents:
1) From the CEO's Desk 12/3/08 - The good news about the economy
2) Bullion with a message - a great interview with Bernard
3) Move Down to $20 Base is coming
4) Bernard to speak at University of Tennessee
5) Re-minting - always available
6) LD Collectibles Available for your Collection
For your reading convenience we are returning to providing you the entire newsletter in email form. For those of you who prefer to read from the LibertyDollar.org website click HERE.
1) From the CEO's Desk 12/3/08
The good news about the economy is it's working just like it's supposed to. It's too bad those running the government actually think they can do something to alter the nature of free markets when in ignorance their very actions are at the source of the market gyrations. If increased government spending schemes actually worked as advertised, or even if they only smoothed the periods between economic growth spurts, they would be great. But such manipulative schemes cause long-term damage to the economy by preventing or delaying necessary economic adjustments and reducing the quantity of real savings in the economy. Remember, the government does not have any real savings of its own, so it can only fund its various job-creating/economy-boosting packages by plundering our savings. Of course, the plutocrats and politicians are the same ones who decided that a silver Eagle from the U.S. Mint should have a $1 face value.
Did you know that early coinage was always from private mints? Even when governments started to get in the coin business and claim it as a monopoly, they had private banks stamping the coinage to lend it legitimacy. People at that time were much less trusting of government than we are today. The great news for us right now is that people around the world are loosing faith in government. The Liberty Dollar private barter currency offers a solution. For those interested in private coinage and freedom check out this article.
I have been asked if the Liberty Dollar is shying away from its stance that the Federal Reserve be abolished. My answer is a resounding NO. The Federal Reserve and its collusion with the politicians and plutocrats currently in charge are at the very root of the wild market gyrations and the theft of several generations of wealth and productivity. However, the Liberty Dollar is pragmatic and has reinvented itself and its message several times in its 10-year history. The Liberty Dollar is on the leading edge creating silver and gold free market private currency; there are no historical examples to copy. We are learning what it takes to market a private barter currency and making history in the process.
During the periods of Liberty Dollar reinvention, Bernard and others looked at what was working and what was not, inside the mission of having a free market silver and gold private barter currency. To be clear, the Liberty Dollar desires to thrive and to have tons of Silver Libertys in people's hands. With that goal in mind, talking about ending the Federal Reserve, while noble in its cause, is not forwarding the mission of getting Silver Libertys into the world. Bottom line: Ending the Federal Reserve isn't reason enough for masses of people to choose the Liberty Dollar.
I shared, in the October Liberty Dollar News, the rough size of the market for silver Eagles from the U.S. Mint. There clearly are masses of people buying silver Eagles that love silver who may not know about the Liberty Dollar and what it provides.
The Liberty Dollar provides: 1) A viable, private, voluntary barter currency based on silver and gold. 2) A face value that allows it to be traded easily into a dollar-denominated economy. 3) A purchasing structure that allows for purchase at a discount and spending at a profit. 4) The true value of a Liberty Dollar is known, and the method for establishing the face value is published and transparent.
Keep sharing the Liberty Dollar. Good things are happening. In the next newsletter, I will discuss the evolution of the Liberty Associate program.
2) Bullion with a Mission
He's a rebel, he's a wild man, he's a visionary! That's Bernard in a nutshell and an article recently published on the hip new e-zine Triple Canopy captures him perfectly. This article took almost a year to complete with the final photo shoot and interview in August in L.A. during Bernard's final Annual Tour. Check it out: http://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/4/bul ... _a_mission
3) Move Down to $20 Base is Coming
The formula for determining when the Liberty Dollar moves up or moves down is very simple and includes vital elements such as the 30 Day moving average of silver and time to mitigate the impact of the silver market's periodic gyrations. This formula is published and transparent.
The Liberty Dollar has demonstrated repeatedly that a free market private barter currency based on silver works and we are set to validate the model again this time with a move DOWN as appropriate when silver moves down. The model is so effective; the Liberty Dollar is beginning to see copycat silver community currencies on the internet. However, it is unclear whether the copycat currencies will move down as the free market is clearly calling for or if they will continue to assume that all markets go up forever. Silver's 30 Day Moving Average dropped under $15 on September 3rd, 2008, and must stay below $15 for 135 consecutive days to force a Move Down from the $50 base to the $20 base. This means that we move down January 16, 2009. Today the 30 DMA is $9.77. The Liberty Dollar is on track to move down.
Move Up Points:
$10 to the $20 Silver Base is 30DMA over $7.50 for 30 consecutive days.
Note: The Liberty Dollar moved up from the $10 base to the $20 base on Thanksgiving Day, November 24, 2005. Holders of the Liberty Dollar doubled their money.
$20 to the $50 Silver Base is 30DMA over $16.00 for 45 consecutive days.
Note: The Liberty Dollar Moved Up to the $50 Silver Base on March 23, 2008.
$50 to the $100 Silver Base is 30DMA over $41.50 for 60 consecutive days.
$100 to the $250 Silver Base is 30DMA over $84.00 for 75 consecutive days.
$250 to the $500 Silver Base is 30DMA over $211.50 for 90 consecutive days.
Move Down Points:
$20 to the $10 Silver Base is 30DMA under $6.50 for 90 consecutive days.
$50 to the $20 Silver Base is 30DMA under $15.00 for 135 consecutive days.
Note: This is where we are with a current Move Down point of January 16, 2009.
$100 to the $50 Silver Base is 30DMA under $40.50 for 180 consecutive days.
$250 to the $100 Silver Base is 30DMA under $83.00 for 225 consecutive days.
$500 to the $250 Silver Base is 30DMA under $210.50 for 270 consecutive days.
Liberty Dollar source of 30 DMA is Scotia Mocatta.
4) Bernard to Speak at University of Tennessee
Bernard von NotHaus, the fiery Monetary Architect of the Liberty Dollar, has accepted an invitation to speak at the University of Tennessee on Thursday January 15. His topic will be "Money… more money... good money... bad money... What is happening with your money... What you can do with your money? How you can make, protect and profit from good money? And of course the Liberty Dollar solution to the looming hyperinflationary depression fueled by the massive bailouts and stimulus packages."
The program begins at 5:15 with a special dinner with the Issues Committee. The lecture follows at 7:30 in the University Center for 45-60 minutes that will be followed by a lively Q&A session. Approximately 200 attendees are expected.
Bernard, who recently retired from the Liberty Dollar and is still under criminal investigation by the FBI for counterfeiting and money laundering, promises to take off his gloves and tell all about what is happening to your money. Not to be missed.
Additional information is available from Ashleigh Moyer with the Office of Student Activities in Knoxville, Tennessee. Ph: 865.974.5455. Email: amoyer@utk.edu.
5) Re-minting - Always Available
Re-minting is always available from the Liberty Dollar. Effective immediately Liberty Dollar is accepting silver for re-minting at the price of $3.25 per oz. This includes shipping back to you of the newly minted product. You are responsible for shipping to the Liberty Dollar fulfillment office in Evansville, IN. The Liberty Dollar is not anticipating a large amount of product for re-minting this time as most people won't want to devalue their $50 Base product and will either hold it until silver goes up or continue to spend what they have.
6) LD Collectibles Available for your Collection
In preparation for the end of year inventory, the Fulfillment Office has been cleaning house, and found a few choice Liberty Dollars that were donated last year during our time of need. The Liberty Dollar is offering a select few of these choice collectibles on the shopping cart. Add these to your collection today! Keep in mind none of these will be minted again, as the FBI seized the dies used to make them.
Here's what we found:
1. $5 one-half ounce $10 Base Silver Liberty, featuring the 2003 torch reverse with USA obverse. Add to you collection of history making Liberty Dollars. According to the tribal elders only 25,000 of these were minted. These are mint proof like condition and shipped in an airtight.
2. $20 1 ounce North Carolina SMI Silver Liberty. Features the 2006 North Carolina torch reverse, with USA obverse.
3. $10 1 ounce “Type 3” $10 Base Silver Liberty. Dated 1999 on the reverse, with USA obverse. First minting to contain “Trust in God” on obverse. Reverse is the same die design used on the 1998 Type 2 design. These sell are selling for at least $60 on ebay currently.
Click on the following link to view them and place your order on the shopping cart. You must send in your check or money order within 10 days or order will not be filled. Very limited quantities available (limit of one each per customer), so act now!
http://www.libertydollar.org/catalog/index.php?cPath=76
________________________________________
Click HERE to Subscribe to Future Mailings.
To be removed from all future mailings follow the instructions HERE.

[The Operative]

Please note in the original LD model, I stated the currency could move down if the 30DMA stayed below the Move Up point after three times the time required to Move Up. As the LD moved from the $10 Base to the $20 Base and up to the $50 Base that required 45 calendar days, I change that requirement to only double the time to Move Down. While I do not believe the silver market can live at these levels for long… it remains if these current artificial rates will be in effect 90 days from the first day the 30DMA for silver dropped below $16 per ounce. On Tuesday, September 2 the 30DMA for silver was $15.11.

and now,

Silver's 30 Day Moving Average dropped under $15 on September 3rd, 2008, and must stay below $15 for 135 consecutive days to force a Move Down from the $50 base to the $20 base. This means that we move down January 16, 2009. Today the 30 DMA is $9.77.

Which is it? Exactly how is this inflation proof when your "currency" loses more than half its "value" in less than a year?

[Imalawman]

Please note in the original LD model, I stated the currency could move down if the 30DMA stayed below the Move Up point after three times the time required to Move Up. As the LD moved from the $10 Base to the $20 Base and up to the $50 Base that required 45 calendar days, I change that requirement to only double the time to Move Down. While I do not believe the silver market can live at these levels for long… it remains if these current artificial rates will be in effect 90 days from the first day the 30DMA for silver dropped below $16 per ounce. On Tuesday, September 2 the 30DMA for silver was $15.11.

and now,

Silver's 30 Day Moving Average dropped under $15 on September 3rd, 2008, and must stay below $15 for 135 consecutive days to force a Move Down from the $50 base to the $20 base. This means that we move down January 16, 2009. Today the 30 DMA is $9.77.

Which is it? Exactly how is this inflation proof when your "currency" loses more than half its "value" in less than a year?

shhhhhh Steve might understand why we've been calling it a scam....

[LDE]

The advocates of "private currencies" don't quite get that they work against the concept of "an inflation-proof standard backed by precious metal." If you allow Von NotHaus, or a sheik from Dubai who wants to liquidate his hoard of platinum, to issue an alternative to the dollar at will then the value of the metals vs. either goods or government-issued paper money will decline. There will be no central control over the money supply.

Even if a coin-based economy could control inflation, imagine the next phase. Lending and therefore production stalls because money is too tight, so then gold-backed securities will take the place of gold coin, then derivatives based on those securities, then ...

Really, "money" has come to mean so much more than currency that the currency supply, in itself, has little to do with consumer price inflation. Our problems today are caused by reliance on very illiquid securities that were treated as having a monetary value, and were used as collateral, but which are unsalable and thus of little real worth when you attempt to cash them. There are different levels of "money"—M1, M2, M3, MZM—and the "money" in your brokerage account, or in (say) a fund the State of Florida has set up to pay school expenses, may not really be there in an emergency the way a stack of Ben Franklins in your wall safe would be. (But the gold or silver is illiquid and fluctuates with great volatility against the price of goods. Let's put it this way: If you had to live through a Katrina, would you rather your safe were full of FRNs or Libbies?)