CtC loser's web page

Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by Famspear »

Propeller Head Weston White responds to LPC's post above:
Now, if SCOTUS is quoting a lower court ruling, they are doing so for the purpose of factual consideration within their own trial, regardless of how brief the quote is, correct? Thus, the context of that quote becomes a decision pertaining to SCOTUS, no? So far as the case being vacated, unless it was vacated for reason pertaining to the quoted text, it is still standing, no? Or is this quote ineffective and should it just be removed, all together?

I am wondering if this is just yet one more desperate attempt on the part of the Quacklosians?
(bolding added).

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... 1278#11278

Later, Weston goes on to say that:
SCOTUS simply adopts the findings of the lower court. After all the court is a venue in which one stays on precise and exact topic, it is not meant as a soapbox for wild baseless, speculative, unsupported tangents.

That is an even better idea, just quote the paragraph as stated within the SCOTUS case and most of all their argument then dissolves. Thanks for pointing that out, heh.
Hey Weston, your legal analysis skills are on about the same par as Peter Hendrickson's theories of tax law. And, regarding the "vacating in part" argument: nice try; no cigar, Weston.

Weston! Talk about wild, baseless, speculative, unsupported tangents!

It's the Court of Appeals in the Murphy case that is quoting the Supreme Court, not the other way around. The Supreme Court case was decided in 1925. The Murphy case was decided over 80 years later. So how could the Supreme Court be adopting the reasoning of the lower court? Where did you learn to read?

Oh, and by the way, regarding your language about the Supreme Court and "their own trial" -- the United States Supreme Court does not generally conduct "trials." It's an appellate court -- the highest court in the land.

The Murphy case had nothing to do with the wacky theories in Hendrickson's Cracking the Code. After vacating its own decision, the Court of Appeals in Murphy ruled: (1) that the taxpayer's compensation was received on account of a non-physical injury or sickness; (2) that gross income under section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code, 26 USC 61, does include compensatory damages for non-physical injuries, even if the award is not an "accession to wealth," (3) that the income tax imposed on an award for non-physical injuries is an indirect tax, regardless of whether the recovery is restoration of "human capital," and therefore the tax does not violate the constitutional requirement of Article I, section 9, that capitations or other direct taxes must be laid among the states only in proportion to the population; (4) that the income tax imposed on an award for non-physical injuries does not violate the constitutional requirement of Article I, section 8, that all duties, imposts and excises be uniform throughout the United States; (5) that under the doctrine of sovereign immunity, the Internal Revenue Service may not be sued in its own name. Murphy v. Internal Revenue Serv., 493 F.3d 170, 2007-2 U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) paragr. 50,531 (D.C. Cir. 2007).

Even more devastating for Weston White and his fellow Propeller Heads: After vacating its original decision, the Court of Appeals in Murphy also stated: "[a]lthough the 'Congress cannot make a thing income which is not so in fact,' [ . . . ] it can label a thing income and tax it, so long as it acts within its constitutional authority, which includes not only the Sixteenth Amendment but also Article I, Sections 8 and 9." Id. The court ruled that Ms. Murphy was not entitled to the tax refund she claimed, and that the personal injury award she received was "within the reach of the congressional power to tax under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution" -- even if the award was "not income within the meaning of the Sixteenth Amendment".Id.

Nothing in either the Murphy case or the Burk-Waggoner case helps the Space Cadets at losthorizons.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by Famspear »

Revisiting one of Weston's statements:
After all the court is a venue in which one stays on precise and exact topic, it is not meant as a soapbox for wild baseless, speculative, unsupported tangents.
This is Weston's subtle way of saying that because the texts of court opinions obviously are not "wild baseless, speculative, unsupported tangents," anything Weston finds in the text of any court opinion must therefore -- somehow -- be acceptable to support Cracking the Code, if Hendrickson and his followers so desire. This is Weston's "tax protester-ese," cryptic way of saying : "in straining to argue that some court case or another supports the idea that private sector earnings are not generally taxable, we followers of Peter Hendrickson can quote, completely out of context, any language from any court case we find, regardless of whether that language is dicta or not, regardless of the actual decision of the court in that case, regardless of whether the court's decision actually had anything to do with the taxation of private sector earnings, regardless of whether the case had anything to do with taxation, and regardless of the actual federal court rulings that Hendrickson's theories are legally frivolous."

Another Propeller Head, "KarlOS," cites cases like Coppage v. Kansas and Butcher's Union Co. v. Crescent City Co..

See
http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1167

KarlOS includes this quote regarding the Coppage case:
Included in the right of personal liberty and the right of private property... is that of personal employment, by which labor and other services are exchanged for money or other forms of property.
The clear implication by KarlOS seems to be that Congress cannot tax ordinary private sector earnings of an individual. That is totally false. And the Supreme Court in Coppage never even addressed that issue. Coppage v. Kansas, 236 U.S. 1 (1915), was a criminal case involving a defendant convicted, under a Kansas statute, of firing an employee for refusing to resign as a member of a labor union, for heaven's sake! No issues of taxation were even presented to -- or decided by -- the Court in Coppage.

KarlOS includes the follow quote about the Butcher's Union case:
The right to follow any of the common occupations of life is an inalienable right...
Again, Karl is trying to leave the false impression that the Butcher's Union case supports the frivolous idea that ordinary private sector earnings are not taxable.

Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1883) was a case involving interpretation of the Louisiana constitution and certain ordinances of the city of New Orleans. Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co. is not a tax case. No issues regarding the power to tax incomes from businesses, or vocations, or private sector labor, or public sector labor, or federally privileged labor, or non-federally privileged labor, or any other kind of labor, were presented to -- or decided by -- the Court. The word "tax" does not even appear in the text of the court's decision.

Those crooks are simply copying and pasting garbage from Peter Hendrickson and other tax protesters -- the same garbage that has been discredited over and over.

EDIT: By the way, the word "tax" does not appear in the text of the Coppage case, either.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Nikki

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by Nikki »

You neglected to mention that the magic words, as cited by LoserHeads or any other TPs, can come from a brief filed by either of the parties (win or lose), from a dissenting opinion, or from a case which has been reversed by the Supreme Court, or from a case where the Supremes have reversed themselves.

None of this should be surprising in that the LoserHeads appear to believe that a stream of correspondence on their part can somehow shift the burden of proof to the IRS with respect to a frivolous filing penalty.

The LoserHeads have drifted far from Pete's gospel and have entered the world of the sovereigns. They have adopted the belief that an affidavit is gospel which must be rebutted, point by point, by the opposing party. They are basing their stands on the failure of the IRS to respond within a time frame they imposed.

They will continue their mindless blathering until they see a significant reduction in their take-home pay; their savings, checking, and retirement accounts vanish; and a U.S. Marshall show up on their doorstep with an eviction notice.

They are beyond logic -- they have FAITH.
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by Famspear »

Nikki wrote:You neglected to mention that the magic words, as cited by LoserHeads or any other TPs, can come from a brief filed by either of the parties (win or lose), from a dissenting opinion, or from a case which has been reversed by the Supreme Court, or from a case where the Supremes have reversed themselves.
Yes, good point. As LPC noted, the losthorizons regulars, like many other tax protesters, also include the fake "quote" in the case of Lucas v. Earl -- in a clumsy attempt to leave the false impression that the quoted material was a court ruling, when it was actually a quotation from the losing taxpayer's brief in that case. Imagine the stupidity of those people!

What these people at losthorizons and other tax protester web sites don't seem to realize is that all this stuff has been read by tax experts, over and over and over. I mean real legal experts, not ex-cons like Peter Hendrickson. Every tax lawyer, for example, is aware of Lucas v. Earl and the Anticipatory Assignment of Income Doctrine. No one who is aware of the holding in that leading case is going to fall for the losthorizons trickery.

EDIT: In fairness, I should point out that while the Coppage and Butcher's materials are on the lost horizons web site forum itself, the Lucas v. Earl fakery is not; it's on a separate web site (linked above).
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by notorial dissent »

Weston is like a great many of his ilk who think that if they can find even a partial bit of a phrase from an opinion and use it, then it will magically vindicate their position, no matter how ridiculous that position is. The problem being that they, like a great many people, never learned to read for and with context, and that it is not the words themselves, but the placement and usage with that determines meaning, particularly in law where it is the sum of the whole and not the parts that is important, and is why they are and are forever going to be frustrated when their carefully crafted air castles blow apart at the faintest hint of a draft of reality.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by Famspear »

Now, a user called "Optimus Prime" at lost horizons has written, in response to Weston White:
Weston,

The quote you want from Lucas v. Earl is the following from the certiorari of that case.

It is to be noted that by the language of the Act it is not "salaries, wages
or compensation for personal service" that are to be included in gross income. That which is to be included is "gains, profits and income derived" from salaries, wages or compensation for personal service.
Optimus, as I have already written in another place, the crucial point is that the language you have quoted is not from the Court’s opinion in Lucas v. Earl.

The language is an almost direct quote from page 17 of the Respondent's brief filed with the U.S. Supreme Court in connection with the government's petition for a writ of certiorari. Guy C. Earl, the taxpayer, was the Respondent. The brief was written by Earl’s attorneys: Warren Olney, Jr., J.M. Mannon, Jr., and Henry D. Costigan.

In some versions of the case as reported, this statement and other quotes and paraphrases from pages 8, 10, 14, 15, 17, and 18 of the Respondent’s brief are re-printed ABOVE the opinion of the Court itself. In the case reprints that include this excerpt (and many of them don't even show it), the excerpt is not clearly identified as being from the brief, so a non-lawyer (and just about any follower of Pete Hendrickson) could easily miss the point that this verbiage is not part of the Court’s opinion.

EARTH CALLING LOSTHORIZONS: The Supreme Court in Lucas v. Earl rejected the argument you quoted. As every tax lawyer knows, Mr. Earl lost the case. The Court ruled that Mr. Earl's income was taxable to him.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Doktor Avalanche
Asst Secretary, the Dept of Jesters
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:20 pm
Location: Yuba City, CA

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by Doktor Avalanche »

:roll:

How many times do we have to be right?
The laissez-faire argument relies on the same tacit appeal to perfection as does communism. - George Soros
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7506
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by The Observer »

Doktor Avalanche wrote::roll:

How many times do we have to be right?
Good point, Dok. What is up with Quatloosia always being right about how the tax and criminal laws are going to be interpreted and ruled on by the courts? Why are we always right? Why can't we be wrong once in a while? Why couldn't the TPs get a victory once in a while, just to make things interesting?

I don't know about the rest of you, but it has gotten pretty boring watching one TP after another cruise into admiralty court with their new theory and immediately get shot down. Mind you, the shooting is always exciting, but the fact remains it has become 100% predictable. Sort of like watching the OK Corral Gunfight over and over again - no way that Wyatt Earp and Co. are going to lose the next one.

Look, we have some brilliant minds here at work on Quatloosia - couldn't we put all our heads together and figure out a way to actually be on the losing side of a case?
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
User avatar
webhick
Illuminati Obfuscation: Black Ops Div
Posts: 3994
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:41 am

Re: CtC loser's web page

Post by webhick »

The Observer wrote:Look, we have some brilliant minds here at work on Quatloosia - couldn't we put all our heads together and figure out a way to actually be on the losing side of a case?
We could always have Irish coffee delivered to the prosecutor's office daily.
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie