Elaine gets 35

[Demosthenes]

Ed may not learn the actual sentence for a few weeks, but he read the presentencing report weeks ago so he knows what the sentencing guideline range is.

[Nikki]

Ed may not learn the actual sentence for a few weeks, but he read the presentencing report weeks ago so he knows what the sentencing guideline range is.

That may be giving him too much credit.

Just because he read something doens't mean he hasn't immediately refused it for cause or associated it with ED BROWN as distinct from Ed Brown: family brownocentric.

[Demosthenes]

Elaine was there to explain the PSR to Ed. They've also had visitors while they were housed at the Stafford County jail. The only surprise in Elaine's sentence is that the judge shaved 75 months off her recommended sentence.

[fortinbras]

I would not be surprised if Ed were as indifferent to his wife's sentence as were George Sibley and Rich McLaren. After all, Ed was originally planning to kill Elaine on the spot.

[Famspear]

......After all, Ed was originally planning to kill Elaine on the spot.

I remember this point. But can someone refresh my memory? Exactly what is the evidence that Ed was contemplating or planning to do that?

[The Operative]

......After all, Ed was originally planning to kill Elaine on the spot.

I remember this point. But can someone refresh my memory? Exactly what is the evidence that Ed was contemplating or planning to do that?

Bill Miller mentioned it on one of his audioblogs. Also, Demo has mentioned it here once or twice. Beyond that, she will have to provide the details.

[ErsatzAnatchist]

I suspect that Ed will not get any breaks at sentencing, not that it will matter. Ed will be no doubt get something in the guidelines range. Either way, my tax dollars will be supporting them until they die in prison.

Perhaps we need a Coventry (ala R.A. Heinlein) to just send these clowns to. May I suggest Mogadishu?

[fortinbras]

Considering Ed's age, even the minimum sentence (30 yrs) is enough.

Ed appears to have serious delusions of grandeur, evidently believing that he personally is capable -- and is recognized by others! -- of being the Napoleonic figure that will lead the overthrow of the federal govt and then be supreme commander of the new commonwealth of sovereign citizens. Like McLaren and others, he's just biding his time in a cell, still confident that thousands of his devotees will storm the prison to release him and make him their leader. (Worth noting: Delusions of grandeur are not enough to qualify for an insanity defense.)

[Pottapaug1938]

I suspect that Ed will not get any breaks at sentencing, not that it will matter. Ed will be no doubt get something in the guidelines range. Either way, my tax dollars will be supporting them until they die in prison.

Perhaps we need a Coventry (ala R.A. Heinlein) to just send these clowns to. May I suggest Mogadishu?

How about McMurdo Sound, or Point Barrow, Alaska?

[Pottapaug1938]

There are plenty of places in eastern CA that could accoodate them. Somehwere beyond 29 Palms, or beyond Barstow, or way up in the NE corner of CA. Also plenty of places in Nevada, like Yucca Mtn. - a two-fer, store hazardous nuclear waste, and the facility you want.

Good idea! With their brains made of lead, the radiation won't be able to hurt them....

[ErsatzAnatchist]

I suspect that Ed will not get any breaks at sentencing, not that it will matter. Ed will be no doubt get something in the guidelines range. Either way, my tax dollars will be supporting them until they die in prison.

Perhaps we need a Coventry (ala R.A. Heinlein) to just send these clowns to. May I suggest Mogadishu?

How about McMurdo Sound, or Point Barrow, Alaska?

I'm not interested in having an environment so extreme it would kill them or require heroic efforts to keep them alive. I just want to send them to their libertarian paradise where there are no rules or government. Pitcairn Island would be a good choice if it were abandoned by the current occupants. No natural harbor and very isolated. The only down side is it is too small to hold all of the nutcases who wish to rid themselves of the U.S. Government.

[The Observer]

I'm not interested in having an environment so extreme it would kill them or require heroic efforts to keep them alive. I just want to send them to their libertarian paradise where there are no rules or government. Pitcairn Island would be a good choice if it were abandoned by the current occupants. No natural harbor and very isolated. The only down side is it is too small to hold all of the nutcases who wish to rid themselves of the U.S. Government.

The problem with sending people like Ed Brown to a modern-day version of Botany Bay is that people like him only have contempt for other people, no matter how much they may seem to hold the same political views. In time, any such penal colony consisting of the Ed Browns of the world is going to brew over into a "Lord of The Flies" scenario - right down to the cannibal barbecue.

I know, I know...some people don't see this as a problem.

[Paladin]

NH tax evader appealing sentence, conviction
October 5, 2009
CONCORD, N.H.—A New Hampshire woman sentenced to 35 years in prison for plotting to kill federal agents during a nine-month standoff at her home is appealing her conviction and sentence.
Elaine Brown's lawyer filed a notice of appeal Friday, the same day she was sentenced in U.S. District Court. Her case would be considered by the First Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston.
She and her husband, Ed, holed up in their 110-acre compound in Plainfield in early 2007 after being sentenced to five years in prison for tax evasion. They were arrested nine months later by federal agents posing as supporters, and were convicted in July on weapons and conspiracy charges.
Brown insisted the couple were being punished for nothing more than civil disobedience and "daring to challenge and question this massive government."

[Pottapaug1938]

I'm not interested in having an environment so extreme it would kill them or require heroic efforts to keep them alive. I just want to send them to their libertarian paradise where there are no rules or government. Pitcairn Island would be a good choice if it were abandoned by the current occupants. No natural harbor and very isolated. The only down side is it is too small to hold all of the nutcases who wish to rid themselves of the U.S. Government.

The problem with sending people like Ed Brown to a modern-day version of Botany Bay is that people like him only have contempt for other people, no matter how much they may seem to hold the same political views. In time, any such penal colony consisting of the Ed Browns of the world is going to brew over into a "Lord of The Flies" scenario - right down to the cannibal barbecue.

I know, I know...some people don't see this as a problem.

On the other hand, it might impress upon these Sovereign, sentient individuals that it can get rather dodgy when you are living in a paradise where there are no rules or government, and your next door neighbor starts stealing from your garden or poaching from your woods -- or, as you indicate, deciding to hold a barbecue with you as the main course.

[fortinbras]

In time, any such penal colony consisting of the Ed Browns of the world is going to brew over into a "Lord of The Flies" scenario - right down to the cannibal barbecue.

Is there a downside??

[ErsatzAnatchist]

In time, any such penal colony consisting of the Ed Browns of the world is going to brew over into a "Lord of The Flies" scenario - right down to the cannibal barbecue.

Is there a downside??

Not enough barbecue sauce?

[ErsatzAnatchist]

On the other hand, it might impress upon these Sovereign, sentient individuals that it can get rather dodgy when you are living in a paradise where there are no rules or government, and your next door neighbor starts stealing from your garden or poaching from your woods -- or, as you indicate, deciding to hold a barbecue with you as the main course.

Give Pottapaug1938 the prize. For those of you who never read Coventry By Robert Heinlein it involves a society that has created its own Coventry, which criminals are given the choice to be exiled to or to be psychologically adjusted to be normal. Link to plot summary: http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/work ... entry.html.

Not quite Lord of the Flies, but an interesting story from an author frequently hailed a a hero of the libertarian movement.

[notorial dissent]

NH tax evader appealing sentence, conviction

Like this is a big surprise, or like the appeal after the appeal will be a surprise. I’m betting, that unless Elaine has an epiphany and wises up, they will all be some version of their usual UCC nonsense, or a variation of the "she couldn’t possibly responsible for all those terrible things they are claiming" defense, all of which will be promptly and rightly tossed, based on total lack of merit or fact. I would have been surprised if her lawyer hadn’t had something ready to file well before the sentencing since he knew in advance where this train wreck was headed. He is at least trying, in spite of the losing hand he was dealt by his client. I just don’t happen to think he has anything to base it on.

[LPC]

NH tax evader appealing sentence, conviction

Like this is a big surprise, or like the appeal after the appeal will be a surprise. I’m betting, that unless Elaine has an epiphany and wises up, they will all be some version of their usual UCC nonsense, or a variation of the "she couldn’t possibly responsible for all those terrible things they are claiming" defense, all of which will be promptly and rightly tossed, based on total lack of merit or fact. I would have been surprised if her lawyer hadn’t had something ready to file well before the sentencing since he knew in advance where this train wreck was headed. He is at least trying, in spite of the losing hand he was dealt by his client. I just don’t happen to think he has anything to base it on.

According to all the reports I have read, there was no evidence directly linking Elaine to any of the explosive devices. She didn't buy them, she didn't handle them, and she didn't talk about them. So the prosecution's case is based on circumstantial evidence. They were in the house, therefore she must have known about them, and she was the only one with money, so she must have paid for the materials.

And the explosives charge is the one that carried the 30-year mandatory sentence.

The government can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt by circumstantial evidence, but whether they did in this case, and whether the explosives statute should really be applied in this kind of case, both seem to me to be non-frivolous issues, and issues that an appellate court will not dismiss out of hand.

[Blup]

The government can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt by circumstantial evidence, but whether they did in this case, and whether the explosives statute should really be applied in this kind of case, both seem to me to be non-frivolous issues, and issues that an appellate court will not dismiss out of hand.

Gonna have to give ya a big Good Luck with that argument. Appellate courts can only overturn findings of fact (ie, a jury decision) if no reasonable fact finder could have come to that conclusion.

And in this case, with bombs all around her, saying she wouldn't come out alive, etc. etc. ... there's no chance in hell she'll prevail on appeal.

Now whether the statute should have been applied, that's a question of law. I don't know enough about that law or the facts to comment on that. But I'm gonna guess that it too is a loser.