Kingdom of Heaven License Plates

[Number Six]

http://www.embassyofheaven.com/catalog/Vehicles.htm

Have any others here seen "patriots" using these license plate? I met a fellow who tried it for a number of years, racked up a lot of scofflaw tickets in the process. When he was stopped, the police would see his family and generally go easy on him.




Constitutionalists In NEK

Author: TODD WELLINGTON Staff Writer
Date: July 9, 1999
Publication: Caledonian-Record, The (VT)


At 36 years-old Michael Philip Janes is a husband, a parent, and a devout Christian who works hard for his money, hiring himself out to work with his hands at area farms.



He has also achieved a status of living legend at the Vermont Traffic Bureau in White River Junction.

Janes has been issued 169 traffic tickets for which he currently owes the state $23,892 in fines.

It's not that he's a bad driver, he just refuses to register his 1989 GMC Suburban. He...

[Judge Roy Bean]

I have seen similarly bogus "Native American (pick a name) Nation" plates when driving past the Sheriff's impound lot.

[dr poormouth]

Whatever happened to "Render unto Caesar"?

Matthew 22:19-22 (King James Version)

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

See also: Mark 12:16-18, Luke 20:24-26. http://www.biblegateway.com

[Pottapaug1938]

What a sweet little scam! The people who run this hustle not only take in fees for their pretty paper, but they also wind up with title to the suckers' vehicles....

[Number Six]

What a sweet little scam! The people who run this hustle not only take in fees for their pretty paper, but they also wind up with title to the suckers' vehicles....

True. But "Paul Revere" advises that you drive junk vehicles. I doubt he gets many titles to Hummers or Escalades.

Judgment finally caught up with this particular Northeast Kingdom rebel. The fellowship that he was part of had him send challenging letters to Vermont state senators, state congressmen, and other officials when the "civil union" bill was going through. He was arrested and put in solitary confinement. On the forty-sixth day or so he cracked, signed an obligatory form, and escaped to New Hampshire. He tried the "kingdom" plate ruse for a number of years, lived on family land, and had other people drive him around when the judge in New Hampshire told him that even in that "liberal" live free or die state, he was beyond the pale of their laws.

[Number Six]

Whatever happened to "Render unto Caesar"?

Matthew 22:19-22 (King James Version)

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

See also: Mark 12:16-18, Luke 20:24-26. http://www.biblegateway.com

The paytriots will generally dismiss this with complicated legal analysis: http://www.preacherstudy.com/pdf/weland1.pdf

Always put the burden on government, other people, past government overreach, etc., never do a twelve step program on one's personal issues and inventories. He said "woe unto you lawyers", but in doing so he was referring to the expositors of the Bible law and tradition, not unbiased men who sought to use the laws of that land to bring about just ends.

When they asked Jesus if he paid tribute to Caesar, and here was a group of people who were living poor, unlike many ministries today, he said that so as not to offend the tax collectors, that they should give a coin to the taxman.

[fortinbras]

The Kingdom of Heaven may get title to the vehicles in return for its bogus plates (there might be a legal question of value received), but even the Kingdom won't get to use the cars.
Rather obviously, KOH license plates are illegal and will draw the unwelcome attention of the highway constabulary. In view of the fact that the driver no longer has the pink slip, that the lack of bona fide license tags raise doubts about whether the vehicle is roadworthy and, of course, there is reason to wonder if this car is stolen and/or used in a crime, the cops have a right, practically an obligation, to impound this car and not allow it to be driven further, and keep it off the road until all those questions are cleared up. The driver may have to face worse inconveniences than having to walk home.

Even if the chief cheese of the KOH shows up with the pink slip, he won't be allowed to drive his car away until it is inspected, passes inspection, gets a real license plate, complies with the state insurance laws, etc.

[Noah]

[When they asked Jesus if he paid tribute to Caesar, and here was a group of people who were living poor, unlike many ministries today, he said that so as not to offend the tax collectors, that they should give a coin to the taxman.

The rest of the story....Matt 17: 25-26
....of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?...Peter said unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.... give unto them for me and thee.

Jesus and his group were strangers in the land. The tribute was just.

[Number Six]

[When they asked Jesus if he paid tribute to Caesar, and here was a group of people who were living poor, unlike many ministries today, he said that so as not to offend the tax collectors, that they should give a coin to the taxman.

The rest of the story....Matt 17: 25-26
....of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?...Peter said unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.... give unto them for me and thee.

Jesus and his group were strangers in the land. The tribute was just.

"Strangers" in what sense? They had all been born in the land of Israel. A "stranger" means a foreigner, so the Romans fit that definition. Due to the history of the land, and to no small part that the residents of Palestine at that time could not govern themselves, the Romans came in for security purposes and required tribute for what they were doing. John the Baptist told the soldiers who came to him to be content with their wages and to do violence to no one. Jesus commended the Centurion who showed faith, which infuriated the zealots who were hoping for a violent or supernatural over throw of the Roman "occupation". One of the reasons that Jesus was targeted by the Pharisees is that they feared that his following would reach critical mass and their version of "the law" and true religion would be swept aside.

But the problem for Christians today is applicability of the laws, which are to be obeyed and which are optional, which wrongs are moral issues and which are technical--is it a "mala prohibita" vs. "mala in se" distinction as some see it?

With taxes, all self-employed people are supposed to be in compliance in a number of ways, from income tax filings, to sales taxes, to licenses with posted notices and so forth. Ethically, as a Christian, is someone off the hook unless the tax man comes to your door or sends you a notice? Some people believe that, and try to make themselves uncollectable in case they are in a legally untenable relation to government. An audit of Jesus' ministry would have shown money only going to survival needs, and probably would have revealed that Judas was stealing from the money bag, as the treasurer. Then the real criminal would have been indicted.

[Noah]

[When they asked Jesus if he paid tribute to Caesar, and here was a group of people who were living poor, unlike many ministries today, he said that so as not to offend the tax collectors, that they should give a coin to the taxman.

The rest of the story....Matt 17: 25-26
....of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?...Peter said unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.... give unto them for me and thee.

Jesus and his group were strangers in the land. The tribute was just.

"Strangers" in what sense? They had all been born in the land of Israel.

Your right Jesus was not a stranger......the payment was qualified at the start of verse 27.

"Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them...."

Since Jesus was one of the children and not a stranger, it would seem Jesus made a voluntary contribution as a tax...

[Unidyne]

I run a website devoted to Micronation and New Country movements (http://www.microfreedom.com), and have done a bit of research on this group.

They call themselves the Embassy of Heaven Church. Their leader is a former Oregon DMV computer technician named Craig Douglas Fleshman but calls himself "Pastor Paul Revere". These people have created a Christian-themed "sovereign citizen" style movement that issues its own ID cards, driver licenses, license plates, auto titles, business licenses, and birth and wedding certificates. They claim they are (literally) citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven and refuse to have anything to do with "worldly governments". Members are given the title of "Ambassador", so they often use the "diplomatic immunity" strategy when confronted by law enforcement officers.

When one member is arrested, often for using phony plates and license, they refuse to acknowledge the judge's authority and will use their time in prison to recruit new members, often preaching out loud for hours at a time.

They once owned a compound in Stayton, Oregon until it was seized for non-payment of property taxes. Revere and company insisted it was "sovereign territory" as an "embassy" and was tax-exempt. (Someone should tell him that only the Department of State can issue diplomatic immunity.)

[Brandybuck]

When they asked Jesus if he paid tribute to Caesar, and here was a group of people who were living poor, unlike many ministries today, he said that so as not to offend the tax collectors, that they should give a coin to the taxman.

One must remember that the "taxes" in the Gospels were paid an occupying Roman army. Jesus is talking about tribute, not taxes. In fact, there is not mention of taxes levied by a legitimate Judean state in the Gospels. I thus interpret this passage as saying "don't offend the guys with the swords, just pay them then get on with doing the work of God".

[Number Six]

Matthew, the former tax collector, must have been a witness to the money use by the Jesus ministry. Judas had a part in the ministry that was living on a shoestring budget as a treasurer--why wasn't Judas told to pay the officer? Peter is told to go fishing, and that the first fish he catches will have the money to pay the officer....

The sovereigns consider themselves outside the scope of US laws. They could go back to horse and buggys, bicycles, and walking as others have done, especially those who have DWI convictions. I don't want drunks endangering me and other drivers by gaming the system in using bogus plates and i.d.s.. In rural areas people laugh and shrug their shoulders at this stuff, in the cities and suburbs, the officers and judges' sense of humor is gone, and the men in the white coats are standing ready for what the psychologists regard as a form of pathology.

[Paths of the Sea]

As I recall, it was Glen Stoll and the Kingdom of Heaven who were trying to get Kent Hovind out of his bind at one time.

Didn't work out so well!

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

[The Observer]

One must remember that the "taxes" in the Gospels were paid an occupying Roman army. Jesus is talking about tribute, not taxes. In fact, there is not mention of taxes levied by a legitimate Judean state in the Gospels. I thus interpret this passage as saying "don't offend the guys with the swords, just pay them then get on with doing the work of God".

A quibble with this statment. One must understand that the Gospels were written by Jews who were viewing the Romans as occupiers and thus every comment, quote or statement of fact is colored by this viewpoint. In fact, Judea was administered as a province of the Roman Empire and had the typical bureaucracy in place to administer Roman law - including a governor appointed by the emperor. The birthplace of Jesus come about precisely because of Roman taxation.

Thus there were taxes laid on the population to pay for this administration. Obviously the Jews would and did take exception of being forced into the Roman Empire and this would lead to them seeing taxes imposed by the Romans as tribute.

Also part of this thread mentioned the quote about not offending the Romans in paying the tax. However, that quote is not in context. In that situation the tax was a specific tax levied for the Temple which had been instituted by Herod when he built it. There was resistance to this tax as well since Judaic law had mandated that the Temple would be supported by gifts from the people of Israel. Prior to Herod, no such tax had ever been imposed on the people to support the Temple.

[LPC]

The birthplace of Jesus come about precisely because of Roman taxation.

Another quibble: If you're talking about the "all the world should be enrolled" business in Luke, there's no historical evidence that any such thing ever happened.

And that part of Luke is contradicted by Matthew, who had Mary and Joseph living in Bethlehem before Jesus was born, then traveling to Egypt in order to avoid the slaughter of male babies by Herod (another story for which there is no historical evidence), then finally being told by an angel to go to Nazareth, where they had apparently never lived before.

The other two gospels say nothing at all about the birth of Jesus, just referring to him as being from Nazareth.

[The Observer]

Another quibble: If you're talking about the "all the world should be enrolled" business in Luke, there's no historical evidence that any such thing ever happened.

But there is historical evidence that there was such a census for tax purposes that occurred: The Census of Quirinius, circa 6-7 A.D., who is named as Cyrenius, governor of Syria in Matthew. And we know that Augustus ordered a taxation census for Roman citizens in 28 B.C., 8 B.C. and 14 A.D.

And I was not claiming that the entire Roman Empire was being taxed, so I am not sure why you are putting those words into my mouth. What I stated was the fact that there was an order for taxation issued by Rome and it involved the province of Judea.

Whether Luke's account is right or Matthew's is right or if both got it wrong is not the point here. (Besides there has to be an explanation for why Joseph would take his 9 month pregnant bride on a journey from Jerusalem to Bethlehem on short notice. I doubt it had to do with finding a better midwife and the taxation order seems to be reasonable). The point of my post was to explain the Jewish view of taxes as "tribute" instead of a legal assessment brought about by the Roman Empire to pay for administration.