SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Famspear
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SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Famspear »

Over at losthorizons, con artist SkankBeat has gone beserk [EDIT: I mean "berserk"] with a series of postings. Among them may be found this jewel:
Both federal and State taxing agencies are subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), 15 U.S.C. sec.1692g(b) requiring original proof of debt, including any alleged "tax" debt.
http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... c8de#26022

A user called "GraceDunn" has asked SkankBeat for some support for this piece of stupidity. Of course, Grace is right to be skeptical. Section 1692g(b) does NOT say that federal and State taxing agencies are subject to the Act.

Indeed, the term "debt collector" as used in the Act does NOT include an "officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties". See 15 USC section 1692a(6)(C).
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Joey Smith »

Skanky is about as clueless as they come, which of course means that he is one of the smarter posters at LostHeads. Skanky is convinced now that all he has to do is to sue Geitner for the return of his money, and all will be swell.

Yeah, that lawsuit will last a whole 60 days before being dismissed with Rule 11 sanctions to further increase the money that Skanky owes.

You can't fix stupid.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Judge Roy Bean »

SkankBeat wrote: ... Both federal and State taxing agencies are subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), 15 U.S.C. sec.1692g(b) ...
:lol:
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Famspear »

Now, the SkankMeister responds:
The IRS/US Treasury is a de facto "debt collector". Claiming you owe an income tax is an "alleged obligation". "Money of the obligation" is for welfare "services" such as "Social Security" and "Medicare". It could also be argued that the "money of the obligation" is for "insurance" such as the Federal "Insurance" Contributions Act (FICA). These "services" and "insurance" are "primarily for personal, family, or household purposes". Am i incorrect here? Is this too much of a stretch? Something to think about.
Yeah, I agree, dimwit. The IRS ''is a de facto debt collector''. The IRS collects taxes, which are in some senses debts. That doesn't matter.

What DOES matter is that the IRS is not a "debt collector" for purposes of the statute. SkankBeat, what's wrong with you, anyway? Are you operating on this same level of "competence" when you try to operate heavy machinery? Power tools? Automobiles? How are you with shoe laces, Skank? To borrow a phrase: Are you sometimes outwitted by inanimate objects?

It's something to "think about."

:roll:
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by The Observer »

I wonder if Skankie ran across this and is jumping to conclusions about its meaning.
Internal Revenue Manual 5.1.10.2
(01-15-2008)

Fair Tax Collection Practices

(1) IRC§ 6304 imposes certain restrictions with respect to IRS communications
with taxpayers regarding unpaid tax. This provision specifically prohibits the
IRS from harassing or abusing taxpayers.

(2) This law applies to communications with all taxpayers, including business
entities.
(3) Violations of IRC§ 6304 could subject the United States to civil action (IRC§
7433) by the taxpayer. Violations of IRC§ 6304 could also subject Service
employees to termination for misconduct.

5.1.10.2.1
(03-20-2009)

Contacting Taxpayers

(1) Some contacts cannot be made without the prior consent of the taxpayer.

These include:
a. Contacting the taxpayer at any unusual time or place, or at a time or place
an employee knows, or should know, is inconvenient to the taxpayer
b. Contacting the taxpayer at work if there is reason to believe the employer
does not allow such contact
c. Directly contacting a taxpayer if the Service knows the taxpayer has an
authorized representative and knows or can readily ascertain the representative’s
name and address.

Exception:
• The representative consents to the employee directly contacting
the taxpayer
• The contact is authorized by a court
• The representative does not respond in a reasonable time
(see Bypassing Taxpayer’s Representative, IRM 5.1.1.7.7).

(2) Employees can generally assume that it is convenient to contact the taxpayer
after 8:00 a.m. and before 9:00 p.m. local time Monday through Friday at the
taxpayer’s location, unless there is reason to know otherwise.

(3) Take any necessary precautions to protect your safety and security when in
the field. (See IRM 5.1.3, Safety, Employee and Security Programs.)
Of course it requires that the IRS employee violates IRC 6304 in terms of harassing the taxpayer when communicating with them.
§ 6304. Fair tax collection practices.

(a) Communication with the taxpayer. Without the prior consent of the taxpayer given directly to the Secretary or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, the Secretary may not communicate with a taxpayer in connection with the collection of any unpaid tax--
(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the taxpayer;
(2) if the Secretary knows the taxpayer is represented by any person authorized to practice before the Internal Revenue Service with respect to such unpaid tax and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such person's name and address, unless such person fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to a communication from the Secretary or unless such person consents to direct communication with the taxpayer; or
(3) at the taxpayer's place of employment if the Secretary knows or has reason to know that the taxpayer's employer prohibits the taxpayer from receiving such communication.

In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, the Secretary shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a taxpayer is after 8 a.m. and before 9 p.m., local time at the taxpayer's location.

(b) Prohibition of harassment and abuse. The Secretary may not engage in any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of any unpaid tax. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this subsection:
(1) The use or threat of use of violence or other criminal means to harm the physical person, reputation, or property of any person.
(2) The use of obscene or profane language or language the natural consequence of which is to abuse the hearer or reader.
(3) Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number.
(4) Except as provided under rules similar to the rules in section 804 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. 1692b), the placement of telephone calls without meaningful disclosure of the caller's identity.

(c) Civil action for violations of section. For civil action for violations of this section, see section 7433 [26 USCS § 7433
].
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Gregg »

I wonder if Skankie ran across this and is jumping to conclusions about its meaning.

(snip)
Oh come on, those are statutes and don't apply under common law!
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by LPC »

There is, of course, an entire section of the Tax Protester FAQ devoted to the inapplicability of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act to the collection of income tax.

And several courts have had to deal with the issue:

“In his attack on the summonses, plaintiff first alleges that the summonses violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (‘FDCPA’), 15 U.S.C. §§ 1692 through 1692p. The FDCPA applies to ‘debt collection practices by debt collectors.’ 15 U.S.C. § 1692(e). A ‘debt’ is defined as ‘any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance, or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes.’ 15 U.S.C. § 1692a(5). A ‘debt collector’ is a person engaged in ‘the collection of debts’ and the definition specifically excludes ‘an officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties.’ 15 U.S.C. §§ 1692a(6), 1692a(6)(C). Contrary to plaintiff's assertion, therefore, federal taxes are not a debt, and the IRS is not a debt collector. The FDCPA does not apply.” Kirk Bandy v. United States, 2008 TNT 82-83, No. 6:07-cv-01386 (U.S.D.C. Kan. 4/24/2008) (motion to quash summons dismissed).

“[T]o the extent the Israels' pleadings may have set forth a claim under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, that claim is dismissed because the Israels' tax deficiencies do not qualify as a ‘debt,’ nor do the IRS or its agents constitute ‘debt collectors’ for the purposes of that Act. See 15 U.S.C. §§ 1692a(5) (classifying a ‘debt’ as "any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance, or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes’); 1692a(6)(C) (noting that only a ‘person’ can qualify as a ‘debt collector,’ then exempting ‘any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties’).” Kenneth L. Israel et ux. v. Mark Everson, 2005 TNT 222-18, No. 4:05-cv-00184-JEG (U.S.D.C. S.D. Iowa 10/14/2005).

“We likewise reject Al-Sharif's due process claims under the FDCA [Fair Debt Collection Act] and FTCA. The FDCA was designed ‘to eliminate abusive debt collection practices by debt collectors, to insure that those debt collectors who refrain from using abusive debt collection practices are not competitively disadvantaged, and to promote consistent State action to protect consumers against debt collection abuses.’ 15 U.S.C. § 1692(e). However, the term ‘debt collector’ does not include an ‘officer or employee of the United States … to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties[.]’ 15 U.S.C. § 1692a(6)(C). Al-Sharif therefore has no right of action against the individual IRS agents under the FDCA.” Al-Sharif v. United States, KTC 2008-493, No. 08-10741 (11th Cir. 2008), aff’ng KTC 2008-150, No. 07-00050-cv-1 (U.S.D.C. S.D. Ga. 2008).

See also, Staub v. Harris, 626 F.2d 275, 278 (3d Cir. 1980) ("at a minimum, the statute contemplates that the debt has arisen as a result of the rendition of a service or purchase of property or other item of value. The relationship between taxpayer and taxing authority does not encompass that type of pro tanto exchange which the statutory definition envisages"); Pollice v. Nat'l Tax Funding, L.P., 225 F.3d 379, 401 (3rd Cir. 2000) (homeowner's property tax obligations do not constitute "debts" under the FDCPA); IRS v. Westberry, 215 F.3d 589, 591 (6th Cir. 2000) (income taxes should not be considered consumer debt for purposes of the §1301 co-debtor stay); Beggs v. Rossi, 145 F.3d 511, 512 (2nd Cir. 1998) (tax on automobiles not a "transaction" for purposes of the FDCPA because "the tax is not levied upon the purchase or registration of the vehicle per se, but rather upon the ownership of the vehicle by the citizen").
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Gregg »

That is what is interesting. There is enough statute, case law, and law out there to establish that both federal and state government have no jurisdiction over your money property and they SHOULD know this. Indeed, their refusal to carry the burden of proof when challenged is de facto evidence of knowledge of guilt. Government officers are violating both statute and law. You have enough to hang these folks, all you have to do is grow some balls and put up or shut up.
Says the guy who has done nothing but encourage others to test out his ideas....
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Joey Smith »

"You charge! It will work! If it does work, then I may follow ......"
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by grixit »

He needs to change his handle. Any cop on the skankbeat will tell you that real skanks put themselves out, they don't shove someone else.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by notorial dissent »

I'd suggest Skanky must be lonely over at LH all by hims widdle wonesome, but I'm sure the voices in his head are keeping him company.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Gregg »

notorial dissent wrote:I'd suggest Skanky must be lonely over at LH all by hims widdle wonesome, but I'm sure the voices in his head are keeping him company.

Our buddy Libre still manages to make unpleasent noises once in a while.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Joey Smith »

Libre/Harvester/Lorne is still perplexed as to why NESARA didn't fund at the end of September as so many newsletter promised, or why the U.S. government hasn't collapsed yet, as so many newsletter promised. So, in the absence of reality, he's decided to pray about it all and see if that works.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by notorial dissent »

Now there is as sound, sane, rational, and reasoned response if ever I heard one.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Cathulhu »

Bear in mind that our resident village idiot was predicting the revolution back in March, and still hasn't stopped with the vague (ooh, something's going on, but I won't tell you what!) threats all summer. He's been pretty quiet about that ounce of gold he'll owe Brandybuck in April when the IRS is still operating business as usual.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by bmielke »

Cathulhu wrote:Bear in mind that our resident village idiot was predicting the revolution back in March, and still hasn't stopped with the vague (ooh, something's going on, but I won't tell you what!) threats all summer. He's been pretty quiet about that ounce of gold he'll owe Brandybuck in April when the IRS is still operating business as usual.
maybe the revolution just hasn't reached where we live yet, I can speak for the Upper Cumberland and South Central Tennessee It isn't here yet but come on chime in.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by LPC »

bmielke wrote:maybe the revolution just hasn't reached where we live yet, I can speak for the Upper Cumberland and South Central Tennessee It isn't here yet but come on chime in.
I think that Libre/Harvester was speaking for Buncombe (a county in North Carolina).
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Prof »

LPC wrote:
bmielke wrote:maybe the revolution just hasn't reached where we live yet, I can speak for the Upper Cumberland and South Central Tennessee It isn't here yet but come on chime in.
I think that Libre/Harvester was speaking for Buncombe (a county in North Carolina).
Asheville and Buncombe County are wonderful, beautiful places. Asheville has become a center of arts and crafts and a high end retirement area. Biltmore, the greatest of the American Robber Baron castles, is located there. My mother was born in the western part of the county in 1907 when it was also frightfully poor and isolated, with few roads through the mountains into town. Much of the change is attibutable to government and taxes, particularly where roads are concerned.
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by Imalawman »

Prof wrote:
LPC wrote:
bmielke wrote:maybe the revolution just hasn't reached where we live yet, I can speak for the Upper Cumberland and South Central Tennessee It isn't here yet but come on chime in.
I think that Libre/Harvester was speaking for Buncombe (a county in North Carolina).
Asheville and Buncombe County are wonderful, beautiful places. Asheville has become a center of arts and crafts and a high end retirement area. Biltmore, the greatest of the American Robber Baron castles, is located there. My mother was born in the western part of the county in 1907 when it was also frightfully poor and isolated, with few roads through the mountains into town. Much of the change is attibutable to government and taxes, particularly where roads are concerned.
I live in Asheville for a while and am very familiar with it and the surrounding country. Gorgeous! My wife and I really want to end up there. If you are ever around there - make the trip from Asheville to Bat Cave, its a fun drive and some cool shops and stuff to do. (btw Bat Cave is the name of the town)
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Re: SkankBeat at losthorizons is still at it.....

Post by LPC »

Imalawman wrote:
Prof wrote:
LPC wrote:I think that Libre/Harvester was speaking for Buncombe (a county in North Carolina).
Asheville and Buncombe County are wonderful, beautiful places. Asheville has become a center of arts and crafts and a high end retirement area. Biltmore, the greatest of the American Robber Baron castles, is located there. My mother was born in the western part of the county in 1907 when it was also frightfully poor and isolated, with few roads through the mountains into town. Much of the change is attibutable to government and taxes, particularly where roads are concerned.
I live in Asheville for a while and am very familiar with it and the surrounding country. Gorgeous! My wife and I really want to end up there. If you are ever around there - make the trip from Asheville to Bat Cave, its a fun drive and some cool shops and stuff to do. (btw Bat Cave is the name of the town)
Enough with the travelogues and tourism. Didn't anyone read the linked material? "Speaking for Buncombe" is phrase that is the origin of the words "bunkum" and "bunk."
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