Are "All Rights Reserved" for Federalist Educators?

[14ATruther]

Is it not strange that an organization such as this one would instruct American's to simply lay down and allow what is to come by decree of big-government just simply to pass and deal with it?

I quickly looked over all of the Court cases you have sited and I cannot find one that suggests that American's need to pay taxes. You see, the more and more a people crashes their heads against the totalitarian regime, the quicker the solution may be found to correct the fraud. That's what the brave and courageous souls have done that you have correctly incarcerated, but we have been paying attention without our ego's flailing away in front of our eyes so we learn and the truth will not be silenced for long.

The core of the fraud lies in the Civil War and the dancing of words used to confuse us all now in our present time. The civil war was not about Dred Scott and the reason given for Dred Scott's ruling was on point. Congress could never grant Dred Scott Citizenship because it's not Congress's to grant. It was and is the State's right to grant Citizenship and by mere default of this being a Republic of State's in the union creates united States Citizenship.

If one is a State Citizen and not the defrauded 14th Amendment corporate subject to the Federal fraud, then each and every case, minus the secret contracts that are used by the corporation to remove our natural rights simply by Article 1 Section 10 of the US Constitution; "No State shall enter... ...Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts."

If you are a lawyer or have Law experience I would go back over your cases cited and apply the State Citizen (all fraudulent secret contracts removed) and then see what you come up with. I can see why you would place the HARTMAN case in such a prominent position. It looks horrible that the magistrate is just simply handing them over to the slaughter. Rightfully so, they were (by secret contract) defrauded 14th Amendment subjects, "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

Wish me luck, it's time to end the fraud and petition the gov for the remedy to remove ones self from the fraud and return back to State Citizen Status. All of the ridicule, the grandiose posturing over a false premise that Congress can decree the "born" status of an individual and it does not have the Constitutional authority to so do. As with the secret contracts of the 14A fraud so too are the Zip Codes of the Federal zones that are not of the organic Constitution.

[wserra]

OK, this is a strange one. I don't even mean the content of the post, which is just regurgitated Borkian gibberish - why I moved the topic from the "Open Forum" here. All this 14th Amendment nonsense is covered in the Bork threads.

The strange one is that "14ATruther" is not a registered user of this board. Move the mouse over the name, there's no link. A check of the logs shows that no one bounced him/her, not that anyone would have anyway. It appears that "14ATruther" made this post, then quit the board.

A new low in drive-by posting.

[The Operative]

OK, this is a strange one. I don't even mean the content of the post, which is just regurgitated Borkian gibberish - why I moved the topic from the "Open Forum" here. All this 14th Amendment nonsense is covered in the Bork threads.

The strange one is that "14ATruther" is not a registered user of this board. Move the mouse over the name, there's no link. A check of the logs shows that no one bounced him/her, not that anyone would have anyway. It appears that "14ATruther" made this post, then quit the board.

A new low in drive-by posting.

If I am not mistaken, the "Open Forum" does not require a person to be registered in order to post there. An unregistered person can click the new topic button and the subsequent screen provides a field for a username. It does not require the username to exist.

[JamesVincent]

The Civil War was not fought over slavery, that much I think is pretty well recognized by anyone who actually looked at it. So you have that right. Im not sure why the subject of the post includes the word Educators, I see nothing in the post that points to teachers or education, unless you are referring to the fact that the school systems do not teach your version of the "truth". As far as the 14th amendment stripping states of their authority, the only answer can be: sure did. The 14th amendment was aimed primarily at the Confederacy and applied to all states in general.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Took the states power to strip any person of life or liberty without due process. Damn that pesky government!


Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Basically stated that all persons eligible to vote shall count towards the states representation in Congress, and defined all persons as any male, 21 or older. !9th amendment changed the male part and 26th changed the age to 18.


Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Basically, as I understand it, states that no one may hold an office if you have committed treason against the United States. Again, damn that government intervention! And if you can prove that you were framed to congress, they can let you back in.


Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

If you incite rebellion or commit treason against the United States, you cannot sue to be compensated for your monetary loss. Or if you were a slave owner and felt you lost income by not having any slaves, same thing. Tough titty, said the kitty. Also acknowledges that the federal and state governments DO have obligations that are covered by law.


Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

If anybody feels you dont have to follow this amendment, stand up so congress can get a good look at you. After they look at you, they will write laws to really mess you up.

I am not a lawyer or an actually trained historian, but that would be my take on the 14th amendment. Im not sure how you can much of a beef with it, it was one of the few laws that came after the Civil War to actually do what it was supposed to do.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Hey, no messing 'round with our secret contracts!

[Pottapaug1938]

I love the way that these idiots obsess over things like "preamble" citizenship, or over how one obntained United States citizenship before the 14th Amendment was enacted. They can dance all they want; but the fact remains that the 14th Amendment changed the rules, to the point where the rules in force up to that point no longer apply. If you are born in any state of the union and in certain territories, you are a U.S. citizen at birth unless you are child, say, of foreign diplomats. And, there are no classes of citizenship. No matter what your ancestry is, or when your ancestors arrived here, you are a U.S. citizen.

So is the guy down the street who just got naturalized; and he is every bit as much a citizen as you are, by the way.

[wserra]

If I am not mistaken, the "Open Forum" does not require a person to be registered in order to post there.

That would explain it. Thanks, Operative.

[JamesVincent]

I would believe that is a good summation Captain. And what is with the zip codes? What does that have to do with the 14th amendment?

[notorial dissent]

Actually WES, I think more of a proto Borker, he isn’t up on the current cant and theory. The whole contracts thing kicks it over into another subgroup of whackos.

We have the “I looked at court cases, and carefully avoided seeing anything that even slightly disagreed with my preconceptions” response, and then he goes on to tell you that he sees nothing that justifies the position he wants to ignore, i.e. that taxes HAVE to be paid-of course. So now we have Borki, contract supremo, and CTCoid rant.

He doesn’t what the Civil War was about or “about”, doesn’t understand what Congress' powers are.... or how the constitution works.

Really doesn’t understand the “impairing the Obligation of Contracts” bit at all.

Then we get the zipcode and federal zones nonsense of recent years, in if it ain’t in the “oreeginal organic constitushun” it don’t exist school.

And then we get the final Schulzian act of “it's time to end the fraud and petition the gov for the remedy to remove ones self from the fraud and return back to State Citizen Status”, oh my, and the angels will weep. And shows just how clueless he really is, rather like Schulz.

An equal opportunity nut job you might say.

I have to pretty much agree with CK and Brandybuck, slavery was the public face that the north put on the Civil War and State’s Rights was the one favored by the South, but what it all finally boiled down to was economics and greed. It’s really hard to get the man behind the plow all worked up about some rich man having to pay a few dollars more on a shipment, but tell him “they’re taking our rights away” and he’ll come out fighting, or at least that is how it worked back then. As I dimly recall from classes many many years ago, what finally sparked it all were tariff issues that favored the north and not the south and that was used as an excuse in what was a volatile time

[Dr. Caligari]

I quickly looked over all of the Court cases you have sited and I cannot find one that suggests that American's need to pay taxes.

Could you list the cases you looked over, so I could point out to you what you missed?

[JamesVincent]

What about me notorial? Didnt I do a good job pointing that out also?

[Pottapaug1938]

I quickly looked over all of the Court cases you have sited and I cannot find one that suggests that American's need to pay taxes.

Could you list the cases you looked over, so I could point out to you what you missed?

He could do that; but since these cases are unlikely to contain the magic words that he will certainly claim are necessary (e.g., "all Americans are liable to pay income tax" or "all Americans need to pay taxes as required by their governments"), he will simply wave these cases in our faces as "proof" that these obligations do not exist.

[lorne]

If the consensus of the Quatlosers is the OP is "whacko" then he must be onto something. I will research this 14th Amend. secret contract stuff. Thank you 14ATruther !

[Gregg]

If the consensus of the Quatlosers is the OP is "whacko" then he must be onto something. I will research this 14th Amend. secret contract stuff. Thank you 14ATruther !

And with that endorsement it's official, the original poster was a whack job.

[Pottapaug1938]

One key difference between indentured servants and slaves is that the former could hope to escape their status. When my ancestors immigrated to Philadelphia from Germany in 1728 and 1735, it was common to hire "redemptioners" to help with the work of clearing land and running a farm or business (in our case, tanning). At the end of the term of service, the redemptioner was given a certain sum of money and various other things, and was as free as anyone else. A slave could, theoretically, be freed; but his or her status as a citizen was always questionable -- if you think otherwise, read the Dred Scott decision.

And that, my friends, is why the 14th Amendment spells out, in language comprehensible to everyone except 14th Amendment troofers, that if you are born within any of the various states (and certain territories) comprising the United States, and are subject to its jurisdiction (i.e., you are not the child of a foreign monarch or diplomat), you are a U.S. Citizen. Forget that happy horsespit about "preamble" vs. "14th Amendment" citizens, folks (not that I have any great hope that our resident trolls are capable of doing so), folks -- the 14th Amendment threw out all of the old rules regarding citizenship, and said essentially "from here on in, this is how you obtain U.S. citizenship".

You may passionately and fervently wish to the contrary; but your wishes are totally unsupported by any legal authority. All of us -- I mean, ALL OF US -- who are U.S. citizens from birth derive our U.S. citizenship from the interpretation set forth in the 14th Amendment -- which is to say, in the Constitution, since an Amendment is fully a part of it.

[JamesVincent]

One key difference between indentured servants and slaves is that the former could hope to escape their status. When my ancestors immigrated to Philadelphia from Germany in 1728 and 1735, it was common to hire "redemptioners" to help with the work of clearing land and running a farm or business (in our case, tanning). At the end of the term of service, the redemptioner was given a certain sum of money and various other things, and was as free as anyone else. A slave could, theoretically, be freed; but his or her status as a citizen was always questionable -- if you think otherwise, read the Dred Scott decision.

And that, my friends, is why the 14th Amendment spells out, in language comprehensible to everyone except 14th Amendment troofers, that if you are born within any of the various states (and certain territories) comprising the United States, and are subject to its jurisdiction (i.e., you are not the child of a foreign monarch or diplomat), you are a U.S. Citizen. Forget that happy horsespit about "preamble" vs. "14th Amendment" citizens, folks (not that I have any great hope that our resident trolls are capable of doing so), folks -- the 14th Amendment threw out all of the old rules regarding citizenship, and said essentially "from here on in, this is how you obtain U.S. citizenship".

You may passionately and fervently wish to the contrary; but your wishes are totally unsupported by any legal authority. All of us -- I mean, ALL OF US -- who are U.S. citizens from birth derive our U.S. citizenship from the interpretation set forth in the 14th Amendment -- which is to say, in the Constitution, since an Amendment is fully a part of it.

I agree totally. My own Irish ancestors came over the same way. They, and yours I hope, actually found decent masters and were able to fulfill their contract and get what was contracted to them. But, unfortunately, they were the exception, not the rule.

[wserra]

I split off the Civil War posts to a new thread imaginatively titled "Slavery and the Civil War" in Potpourri. This one can stay dedicated to 14th Amendment troofers.

[wserra]

And what is with the zip codes? What does that have to do with the 14th amendment?

Zip codes have numbers. The 14th Amendment has a number.

Q.E.D.

[Quixote]

I quickly looked over all of the Court cases you have sited and I cannot find one that suggests that American's need to pay taxes.

Could you list the cases you looked over, so I could point out to you what you missed?

He looked over all of them, quickly. Which reminds me of a Woody Allen joke.

I took a speed-reading course and read War and Peace in twenty minutes. It concerns Russia.

[Gregg]

One key difference between indentured servants and slaves is that the former could hope to escape their status. When my ancestors immigrated to Philadelphia from Germany in 1728 and 1735, it was common to hire "redemptioners" to help with the work of clearing land and running a farm or business (in our case, tanning).

I would have never guessed that they had tanning beds back then...did they do nails and hair and such, too?