Ronald Ottaviano

[Parvati]

Oh--to provide a valid cite, here's the Justice.gov article regarding the guilty verdict: http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/fi ... lease.html

[wserra]

And exactly how does he propose that the Court recharge? Write the jurors at their homes?

While pro se defendants get procedural breaks that represented defendants don't, these aren't among them. A request to charge must be made before the Court charges. An objection to a charge must be interposed at the earliest possible moment - when informed of the charge if in advance, or after the charge is given but before the jury gets the case if not.

What's next? Discovery demands?

[Parvati]

The verdict, special verdict, transcripts and etc. are now on PACER.

1.) Verdict

2.) Special Verdict

3.) Jury Notes

4.) Docket Annotation (Superseding Indictment)

[ArthurWankspittle]

I notice that the indictment asks for restitution or payment of unpaid taxes and the like in the region of $5m. Is this figure decided as part of sentencing and, given the 100% guilty, is it likely the judge will go with the grand jury / prosecution request and figures?

[Parvati]

Article regarding the recent Guilty verdict describes one of Ottaviano's MATA scams:

The company told them about what sounded like a quirk of history: When the U.S. went off the gold standard in 1933, it claimed, the country went bankrupt, its citizens became debtors, and the government would cover their debt. They simply needed to buy a bond from Mid-Atlantic Trustees and send it to the U.S. Treasury.

The rest of the article, which quotes one Susan McDermott, can be found here.

[Parvati]

TTBOMK, Ottaviano's MATA web sites were to be taken down, as he is no longer permitted to sell his trash. While yourPTO.com is "down for maintenance", the WebAlliance-hosted site (here) is still accessible--including the sign-up page:

https://weballiance.weballiance.biz/yourpto.com/beta/

[nygrandma]

I know a couple of people that on the advise of Ron, have put their home's into a PTO.
Does anyone know how they can now move it to a legitimate Trust?

[wserra]

I know a couple of people that on the advise of Ron, have put their home's into a PTO.
Does anyone know how they can now move it to a legitimate Trust?

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to that. Tell them to do what they should have done originally - see a local lawyer experienced in trusts and estates.

[nygrandma]

I don't think a "regular" lawyer is the right answer.

My friends said that one of the problems they foresaw, was that the property/deed is registered in the name of the PTO and it requires Ron or another one of MATA's trustee's signature to sign off on the transfer before it can be moved into another trust.

Does anyone know who they can contact so they can get the necessary documentation to prove that the PTO was a fraud with out the county/registrar of deeds thinking they were pulling a fraud of their own?

[Judge Roy Bean]

Not sure in the state they live, and this is not legal advice, but it's not something as simple as filling out some forms and filing them with the recorder.

The "necessary documentation" will most likely be in the form of a court order issued as a result of a suit filed to cancel the bogus trust's interest in the property.

[wserra]

My friends said that one of the problems they foresaw, was that the property/deed is registered in the name of the PTO and it requires Ron or another one of MATA's trustee's signature to sign off on the transfer before it can be moved into another trust.

You're not likely to get that. Therefore, as Judge Roy said, one might well need to file an action in the nature of a quiet title to void the transfer to a fraudulent entity.

While a "regular" lawyer may not be the answer, a trust and estates lawyer is.

[Parvati]

I don't think a "regular" lawyer is the right answer.

My friends said that one of the problems they foresaw, was that the property/deed is registered in the name of the PTO and it requires Ron or another one of MATA's trustee's signature to sign off on the transfer before it can be moved into another trust.

Does anyone know who they can contact so they can get the necessary documentation to prove that the PTO was a fraud with out the county/registrar of deeds thinking they were pulling a fraud of their own?

Nygrandma,

Unlike other Quatloos members, I am not a lawyer. I can only tell you what someone in a similar situation has done. They did, indeed, consult an attorney who is an trust/estate specialist, and he is, to the best of my knowledge, going to do whatever it is they do that "dissolves" a trust, and (in this case, anyway) create a legitimate trust in its wake.

I do not know if laws about such things vary by state, but I would certainly, as others have suggested, seek the advice of a lawyer who is knowledgeable about such things. I would also supply him or her with a copy of the indictment and the verdict (which I provide links to earlier in this thread) so that they know what the circumstances are.

I don't want to talk out of turn or offer false hope, so I'll only say that I've heard a LOT of chatter about MATA's trusts--everything from "this trust is horsesh*t" to "the trust, as written, is legitimate but the way it's been managed is in violent disagreement with the legal requirements."

Your mileage may vary.

Good luck to your friends.

[LPC]

Does anyone know who they can contact so they can get the necessary documentation to prove that the PTO was a fraud with out the county/registrar of deeds thinking they were pulling a fraud of their own?

Your friend got into this jam because he thought that there were magic papers that he could sign that would solve all his tax and creditor problems. Now you think that there are magic papers he can sign that make his Ottaviano problems go away?

I practice estate and trust law for a living, and I can tell you that it's not that easy to get the toothpaste back into the tube. And the real problem is not trust law, but real estate law. When the recorder of deeds gets something from A asking that the deed from A to B should be nullified because B conned A, how does the recorder know that A is not scamming B?

That's why there has to be a process. As others have pointed out, there needs to be some kind of a process where Ottaviano gets notice and both parties get a chance to tell their story to a judge, who then fixes the situation. In many states, it's called an action to "quiet title," but it could also be called an action for recission, or an equitable action to reform a deed. A real estate lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction should know what to do.

Of course, if you can get Ottaviano's cooperation and he signs a new deed willingly, then you don't need a judge, but I don't think it going to go down that easily.

[Arthur Rubin]

I practice estate and trust law for a living, and I can tell you that it's not that easy to get the toothpaste back into the tube. And the real problem is not trust law, but real estate law. When the recorder of deeds gets something from A asking that the deed from A to B should be nullified because B conned A, how does the recorder know that A is not scamming B?

But if "B" doesn't exist as a legal entity....?

[LPC]

I practice estate and trust law for a living, and I can tell you that it's not that easy to get the toothpaste back into the tube. And the real problem is not trust law, but real estate law. When the recorder of deeds gets something from A asking that the deed from A to B should be nullified because B conned A, how does the recorder know that A is not scamming B?

But if "B" doesn't exist as a legal entity....?

And how does the recorder know that?

[nygrandma]

Does anyone know who they can contact so they can get the necessary documentation to prove that the PTO was a fraud with out the county/registrar of deeds thinking they were pulling a fraud of their own?

Your friend got into this jam because he thought that there were magic papers that he could sign that would solve all his tax and creditor problems. Now you think that there are magic papers he can sign that make his Ottaviano problems go away?

Let me make this clear... my friends paid the all of taxes on their property(s) in the PTO. They didn't set the Trust up to avoid paying!
They were putting the property in a Trust to hold the property for their benefit, and at the time of their death,for the benefit of their heirs .

Also, Ron stole the money they deposited (thousands of dollars) in the PTO's bank account to cover the property's operating cost! Since Ron's assets have been seized,does anyone know if there is any chance of them getting at least some of the money back?

[Imalawman]

For the record, there was a moderator request for this thread that I addressed. PM me if you would like to discuss.

[iplawyer]

Let me make this clear... my friends paid the all of taxes on their property(s) in the PTO. They didn't set the Trust up to avoid paying!
They were putting the property in a Trust to hold the property for their benefit, and at the time of their death,for the benefit of their heirs .

Why did they put it in the Trust then?

[LPC]

Let me make this clear... my friends paid the all of taxes on their property(s) in the PTO. They didn't set the Trust up to avoid paying!
They were putting the property in a Trust to hold the property for their benefit, and at the time of their death,for the benefit of their heirs .

Then why didn't "your friends" go to a real lawyer and set up a real trust?

Also, Ron stole the money they deposited (thousands of dollars) in the PTO's bank account to cover the property's operating cost! Since Ron's assets have been seized,does anyone know if there is any chance of them getting at least some of the money back?

One of the most important things about naming a trustee is naming someone you can trust.

If "your friends" can get a judgment against Ottaviano, they will be a general creditor and entitled to claim a share of any assets not already seized by other creditors.

You can take that as a "no," based on the facts as you have stated them.

[Cathulhu]

I don't think a "regular" lawyer is the right answer.

My friends said that one of the problems they foresaw, was that the property/deed is registered in the name of the PTO and it requires Ron or another one of MATA's trustee's signature to sign off on the transfer before it can be moved into another trust.

Does anyone know who they can contact so they can get the necessary documentation to prove that the PTO was a fraud with out the county/registrar of deeds thinking they were pulling a fraud of their own?

You're given the correct and helpful answer, but you don't find it acceptable. How sovrun of you. My sympathies--boo f*cking hoo.